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The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

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Comments

  • #3722
    Dave0301
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭Dave0301


    theological wrote: »
    Capacity and uptake are two different things. Please read the article I linked to.
    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    The article is wondering the same thing I'm wondering. If they have capacity for 35,000 then why are they only testing below 20,000? The target for the end of april is 100,000 tests a day. It's actual tests, not how many they could have done if this or if that or whatever.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aToM662I9rw


    It is fairly clear from this clip (I think). I would take that as the capacity to carry out that many tests.

    If there is 35000 capacity at the moment they still have quite a way to go.

    I think that if hospital cases start to wind down they may decide there is no need to roll out the capacity for that many cases, which is not ideal.

    Or, they decide to start community testing and contract tracing in combination with an app to track the spread, which is more preferable.


  • #3723
    freak scence
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 442 ✭✭freak scence


    128 fake nhs twitter accounts to promote the herd

    https://twitter.com/jdpoc/status/1252266724449230848


  • #3724
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Dave0301 wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aToM662I9rw


    It is fairly clear from this clip (I think). I would take that as the capacity to carry out that many tests.

    If there is 35000 capacity at the moment they still have quite a way to go.

    I think that if hospital cases start to wind down they may decide there is no need to roll out the capacity for that many cases, which is not ideal.

    Or, they decide to start community testing and contract tracing in combination with an app to track the spread, which is more preferable.

    Their stated goal is to conduct 100,000 tests per day by end of month. Michael Gove clarified that unambiguously to sophy ridge on sunday. Its tests, not simply capacity. But really nobody expects them to get near it anyway, if they were doing 60,000 it would be ok from where they were. Its just the bluster they come out with and then the excuses when the inevitable questions are asked.


  • #3725
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    Their stated goal is to conduct 100,000 tests per day by end of month. Michael Gove clarified that unambiguously to sophy ridge on sunday. Its tests, not simply capacity. But really nobody expects them to get near it anyway, if they were doing 60,000 it would be ok from where they were. Its just the bluster they come out with and then the excuses when the inevitable questions are asked.

    If they aimed for 60,000, they end up with 40,000.


  • #3726
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    freak scence wrote: »
    128 fake nhs twitter accounts to promote the herd

    https://twitter.com/jdpoc/status/1252266724449230848

    Where have I seen that picture before?

    Perhaps here?
    https://www.unison.org.uk/news/2019/12/nhs-staff-shortages-increase/

    But there her name is Mia and she is a nurse......


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  • #3727
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bilston wrote: »
    But surely the point is that you'd only do random tests if demand has been exhausted in the sectors that matter most (NHS staff etc)?

    If only 20,000 of those guys are coming forward to be tested and there is capacity for twice (or 5 times) that number of tests, why would you not allow other people to be tested?

    To do that, you would need to know how many people will require testing each day so you can allocate the surplus to community testing.


  • #3728
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,708 ✭✭✭serfboard


    freak scence wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/jdpoc/status/1252266724449230848
    Holy Jaysus, that thread is worth reading.

    Frightening what they are up to - using real photos of NHS workers to front fake accounts supporting government policy.


  • #3729
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    serfboard wrote: »
    Holy Jaysus, that thread is worth reading.

    Frightening what they are up to - using real photos of NHS workers to front fake accounts supporting government policy.

    I gave it a very quick glance, does he actually provide any evidence?


  • #3730
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Why are we discussing capacity and uptake? The UK Government has confirmed its target now is 100 000 tests taken per day instead of capacity. This is a new target from the 25 000 tests per day for the middle of April. Some of the excuses for dismissing that target was that the new target of 100 000 at the end of April meant the middle of April target wasn't applicable any longer.

    As for what it means when you look at capacity and uptake, it could be as simple as labs can test 24 hours per day, but they will only pay or only have enough staff for 8 hours per day to conduct testing. Its the same as when you look at bed capacity, you can have surplus beds in hospitals, but if you had a shortage of staff before the pandemic struck and many staff are off sick, I start to question how you are coping with more beds but no more staff in the system. Can someone expand on how that would work? I mean they have new facilities that will need to be staffed so they must surely be cutting from somewhere, right?


  • #3731
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Why are we discussing capacity and uptake? The UK Government has confirmed its target now is 100 000 tests taken per day instead of capacity. This is a new target from the 25 000 tests per day for the middle of April. Some of the excuses for dismissing that target was that the new target of 100 000 at the end of April meant the middle of April target wasn't applicable any longer.

    As for what it means when you look at capacity and uptake, it could be as simple as labs can test 24 hours per day, but they will only pay or only have enough staff for 8 hours per day to conduct testing. Its the same as when you look at bed capacity, you can have surplus beds in hospitals, but if you had a shortage of staff before the pandemic struck and many staff are off sick, I start to question how you are coping with more beds but no more staff in the system. Can someone expand on how that would work? I mean they have new facilities that will need to be staffed so they must surely be cutting from somewhere, right?

    As Alison Pittard, intensive care expert, explained to health select committee last week, what happens in intensive care is the normal staff patient ratio of 1:1 is increased so that staff are overworked and the quality of care is compromised and, as per her evidence, to dangerous levels.


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  • #3732
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Why are we discussing capacity and uptake? The UK Government has confirmed its target now is 100 000 tests taken per day instead of capacity. This is a new target from the 25 000 tests per day for the middle of April. Some of the excuses for dismissing that target was that the new target of 100 000 at the end of April meant the middle of April target wasn't applicable any longer.

    As for what it means when you look at capacity and uptake, it could be as simple as labs can test 24 hours per day, but they will only pay or only have enough staff for 8 hours per day to conduct testing. Its the same as when you look at bed capacity, you can have surplus beds in hospitals, but if you had a shortage of staff before the pandemic struck and many staff are off sick, I start to question how you are coping with more beds but no more staff in the system. Can someone expand on how that would work? I mean they have new facilities that will need to be staffed so they must surely be cutting from somewhere, right?

    So setting up temporary hospitals in London, Manchester, Exeter, Glasgow etc is just all some elaborate ruse by the Tories to con the public?


  • #3733
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Why are we discussing capacity and uptake? The UK Government has confirmed its target now is 100 000 tests taken per day instead of capacity. This is a new target from the 25 000 tests per day for the middle of April. Some of the excuses for dismissing that target was that the new target of 100 000 at the end of April meant the middle of April target wasn't applicable any longer.

    I called this from day 1.

    The whole 100k tests per day was always about getting the immediate pressure off their back about not meeting the 25k target and kicking the can further down the road with a big sounding number as a distraction to ease the short term pressure on them. 50k doesn't sound half as impressive as 100k which is why they picked the number that they did.

    The problem with the British Government is they are constantly driven by a need to generate good PR and to look good politically and this is coming before all else at the moment which is why you are seeing things like this being played out the way they are. What the better countries who have handled this situation have done is treat it as a health issue without getting bogged down in politics.

    We have seen for a long while that the British Government keeps making claims and promises that it never actually delivers. The reasons for not delivering promises time and time again have to be one of the below.

    a) The Government are making promises that they are not sure they can keep at time of making them.
    b) The Government's judgement on what can be reasonably done is flawed and unrealistic.
    c) The Government has simply decided that self preservation is king by any means necessary.


  • #3734
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Aegir wrote: »
    So setting up temporary hospitals in London, Manchester, Exeter, Glasgow etc is just all some elaborate ruse by the Tories to con the public?


    Not sure how you got there from my post. Care to take a stab at how the NHS which was understaffed before the crises is able to add more bed capacity in areas where staff is needed on a 1:1 basis with the same staff they have currently and with many staff out sick or isolating at the same time?

    NHS staff shortage: How many doctors and nurses come from abroad?


    This article is more than 4 months old
    Nursing shortages forcing NHS to rely on less qualified staff – report
    At present, there are almost 44,000 nursing vacancies across the NHS (12% of the nursing workforce), but this could hit 100,000 in a decade, the report said.

    The analysis comes after the main political parties pledged to increase the number of nurses if they win the election.

    The Tories have promised 50,000 more nurses, with 18,500 of these coming from retaining existing nurses, 12,500 from overseas, 5,000 via nursing apprenticeships and 14,000 through training.

    You will remember the pledge from the Tories, where 18 500 existing staff were counted as extra. This was because they wanted a headline figure of 50 000 extra nurses, before this crises hit and more beds were made available. Funny how we are again talking about what the figures actually mean with this government.


  • #3735
    RobMc59
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Why are we discussing capacity and uptake? The UK Government has confirmed its target now is 100 000 tests taken per day instead of capacity. This is a new target from the 25 000 tests per day for the middle of April. Some of the excuses for dismissing that target was that the new target of 100 000 at the end of April meant the middle of April target wasn't applicable any longer.

    As for what it means when you look at capacity and uptake, it could be as simple as labs can test 24 hours per day, but they will only pay or only have enough staff for 8 hours per day to conduct testing. Its the same as when you look at bed capacity, you can have surplus beds in hospitals, but if you had a shortage of staff before the pandemic struck and many staff are off sick, I start to question how you are coping with more beds but no more staff in the system. Can someone expand on how that would work? I mean they have new facilities that will need to be staffed so they must surely be cutting from somewhere, right?
    On a slightly different subject,as the reported deaths in the UK appear to be slowing would you say the UK may finally be seeing some light at the end of the tunnel?


  • #3736
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Aah, so it’s no longer about the covid 19 response, it’s a party political broadcast on behalf of the Labour Party.


  • #3737
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    devnull wrote: »
    I called this from day 1.

    The whole 100k tests per day was always about getting the immediate pressure off their back about not meeting the 25k target and kicking the can further down the road with a big sounding number as a distraction to ease the short term pressure on them. 50k doesn't sound half as impressive as 100k which is why they picked the number that they did.

    The problem with the British Government is they are constantly driven by a need to generate good PR and to look good politically and this is coming before all else at the moment which is why you are seeing things like this being played out the way they are. What the better countries who have handled this situation have done is treat it as a health issue without getting bogged down in politics.

    We have seen for a long while that the British Government keeps making claims and promises that it never actually delivers. The reasons for not delivering promises time and time again have to be one of the below.

    a) The Government are making promises that they are not sure they can keep at time of making them.
    b) The Government's judgement on what can be reasonably done is flawed and unrealistic.
    c) The Government has simply decided that self preservation is king by any means necessary.


    Pretty much being played out with the PPE from Turkey right now.

    RAF plane sent to pressure Turkey to release gowns for NHS
    The British government reacted desperately to delays in securing urgently needed supplies of personal protective equipment from Turkey on Monday evening, dispatching an RAF plane in an attempt to force Ankara to release them.

    The plane, one of three that have been waiting to be dispatched to pick up the shipment of 400,000 protective gowns for NHS staff, took off from RAF Brize Norton on Monday despite earlier ministerial assurances that the matter was on the brink of being resolved.

    By the time the flight took off there was no indication from the Turkish authorities that the equipment had been approved for export.

    So the story of the weekend was the shortage of PPE, we were told that there was a shipment from Turkey coming. Turns out there is no shipment coming, and even if Turkey approves the aircraft to be filled that they are sending without knowing if it will work, it will still be less than they were promoting over the weekend. They will still need to send 2 more aircraft to fulfill the amount they said and they will wait for Turkey to give the go ahead.

    No Turkey, going through their own crises, seem reticent to send away PPE that they might need. Imagine that, a country looking to keep vital equipment when there is a crises. I doubt many countries will be exporting when there is a crises of vital supplies. It would make very little sense to do that.

    Imagine doing that at a time that you allowed your supplies to dwindle as well from £800m to around £500m to save on costs cutting due to a policy from the government of the day.


  • #3738
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    On a slightly different subject,as the reported deaths in the UK appear to be slowing would you say the UK may finally be seeing some light at the end of the tunnel?

    Don't know, do you know what the numbers are in the community? How can we be positive when we don't know what the numbers are of people dying in care homes or just at home? Of course the amount of deaths declining in hospital is a positive, but until we know if the UK is bucking the trend in other countries regarding deaths at care homes it is not clear if this is the end of the peak.

    Aegir wrote: »
    Aah, so it’s no longer about the covid 19 response, it’s a party political broadcast on behalf of the Labour Party.

    Again, not sure how you got to this from my post. I will just take it that you will not engage and would rather deflect than discuss the point.

    If you had wanted to engage, you should have rather gone with the, private hospitals are providing the extra beds and staff to the NHS. But you confirmed to me that you are not interested in discussing the UK response, you are more interested in deflecting away from the response in the UK.


  • #3739
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Pretty much being played out with the PPE from Turkey right now.

    RAF plane sent to pressure Turkey to release gowns for NHS

    So the story of the weekend was the shortage of PPE, we were told that there was a shipment from Turkey coming. Turns out there is no shipment coming, and even if Turkey approves the aircraft to be filled that they are sending without knowing if it will work, it will still be less than they were promoting over the weekend. They will still need to send 2 more aircraft to fulfill the amount they said and they will wait for Turkey to give the go ahead.

    No Turkey, going through their own crises, seem reticent to send away PPE that they might need. Imagine that, a country looking to keep vital equipment when there is a crises. I doubt many countries will be exporting when there is a crises of vital supplies. It would make very little sense to do that.

    Imagine doing that at a time that you allowed your supplies to dwindle as well from £800m to around £500m to save on costs cutting due to a policy from the government of the day.

    The things I don't understand here is they were talking about a plane leaving as soon as the equipment was ready, but surely you'd save a few hours by having the planes sent there waiting so as soon as the equipment was ready it was good to go rather than having to wait for a flight to come in?

    I suspect the reason they didn't send the plane already is because of the fact that there was no shipment coming at that point and subsequently they would only send a plane if something was then arranged. This would make sense why they have followed this course of action, because the original narrative doesn't make sense unless the people managing it are complete amateurs.

    There has been mention on Sky this evening that Turkey have said themselves that they only heard from the UK on Sunday in relation to an order, despite the fact on Saturday the UK claimed an order would be arriving on Sunday. Unfortunately time and time again the Tory party show that they keep making statements that cannot be trusted.

    They are completely out of touch as they have been in power for so long and are in a world of their own and self preservation at all costs and by any means necessary. However it's important to say that whilst the Tory party are bad for the UK right now, the complete lack of opposition for the last several years has allowed an out of touch government to continue on their merry way.


  • #3740
    RobMc59
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Pretty much being played out with the PPE from Turkey right now.

    RAF plane sent to pressure Turkey to release gowns for NHS



    So the story of the weekend was the shortage of PPE, we were told that there was a shipment from Turkey coming. Turns out there is no shipment coming, and even if Turkey approves the aircraft to be filled that they are sending without knowing if it will work, it will still be less than they were promoting over the weekend. They will still need to send 2 more aircraft to fulfill the amount they said and they will wait for Turkey to give the go ahead.

    No Turkey, going through their own crises, seem reticent to send away PPE that they might need. Imagine that, a country looking to keep vital equipment when there is a crises. I doubt many countries will be exporting when there is a crises of vital supplies. It would make very little sense to do that.

    Imagine doing that at a time that you allowed your supplies to dwindle as well from £800m to around £500m to save on costs cutting due to a policy from the government of the day.

    Forgive me as I`m probably mistaken but I have to ask. Do you begrudge the UK getting PPE from Turkey?


  • #3741
    S.M.B.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,383 ✭✭✭S.M.B.


    freak scence wrote: »
    128 fake nhs twitter accounts to promote the herd

    https://twitter.com/jdpoc/status/1252266724449230848
    Hopefully they can sort out the legalities before someone picks up this story and gets to the bottom of it.

    If there's any truth in this then it's so depressing.

    I honestly don't know anymore.

    :(


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  • #3742
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,448 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    PPE is getting through, this was yesterday morning at about 03.30 at Prestwick

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1251943522036523012

    The flight actually came from Moscow which must be a staging point for freight from China


  • #3743
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    S.M.B. wrote: »
    Hopefully they can sort out the legalities before someone picks up this story and gets to the bottom of it.

    If there's any truth in this then it's so depressing.

    I honestly don't know anymore.

    :(

    Doesn’t seem to be any evidence to support these claims.


  • #3744
    declanflynn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    Forgive me as I`m probably mistaken but I have to ask. Do you begrudge the UK getting PPE from Turkey?
    Did ye get it?


  • #3745
    declanflynn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    PPE is getting through, this was yesterday morning at about 03.30 at Prestwick

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1251943522036523012

    The flight actually came from Moscow which must be a staging point for freight from China
    Well done Scotland


  • #3746
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    PPE is getting through, this was yesterday morning at about 03.30 at Prestwick

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1251943522036523012

    The flight actually came from Moscow which must be a staging point for freight from China

    Was that UK or Scot Gov sourced? :)


  • #3747
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Not sure how you got there from my post. Care to take a stab at how the NHS which was understaffed before the crises is able to add more bed capacity in areas where staff is needed on a 1:1 basis with the same staff they have currently and with many staff out sick or isolating at the same time?

    NHS staff shortage: How many doctors and nurses come from abroad?


    This article is more than 4 months old
    Nursing shortages forcing NHS to rely on less qualified staff – report



    You will remember the pledge from the Tories, where 18 500 existing staff were counted as extra. This was because they wanted a headline figure of 50 000 extra nurses, before this crises hit and more beds were made available. Funny how we are again talking about what the figures actually mean with this government.

    The hospitals are open and ready to take patients, if required. unless you are saying that is a lie?


  • #3748
    declanflynn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Was that UK or Scot Gov sourced? :)
    Scottish Gov sourced according to the bbc


  • #3749
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,448 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Was that UK or Scot Gov sourced? :)

    Scottish Govt


  • #3750
    RobMc59
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Was that UK or Scot Gov sourced? :)

    According to this Scottish government website it was a joint effort alongside the NHS national procurement dept.
    https://www.gov.scot/news/delivery-of-critical-nhs-supplies/


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  • #3751
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Aegir wrote: »
    Doesn’t seem to be any evidence to support these claims.

    So why does a fake twitter profile for an 'NHS Doctor' named 'Susan' have a profile photo that is actually of a nurse called Mia who was featured on a respected Trade Union's website?


This discussion has been closed.
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