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Covid cancellations and refunds

  • 06-04-2020 7:03am
    #1
    overkill602
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭


    Emirates not refunding for at least a year if at all..
    Paid a business class ticket had to book another on etihad
    Airlines cleared for rip off in cv19 confusion


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Noxegon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Noxegon


    overkill602 wrote: »
    Emirates not refunding for at least a year if at all..
    Paid a business class ticket had to book another on etihad
    Airlines cleared for rip off in cv19 confusion

    As I understand it the UAE regulations allow airlines to refund cancellations in voucher form only, and a one year time limit for use is normal. I got snared by that a few years ago with a cancelled flydubai flight from DXB-BAH.

    I develop Superior Solitaire when I'm not procrastinating on boards.ie.



  • #3
    overkill602
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭overkill602


    Noxegon wrote: »
    As I understand it the UAE regulations allow airlines to refund cancellations in voucher form only, and a one year time limit for use is normal. I got snared by that a few years ago with a cancelled flydubai flight from DXB-BAH.


    So how did they pull that one off to operate in Europe and not having the same conditions European carriers have, to observe different rules.

    They turn off there phone lines off about 5 days before changing and dumping loads of customers my flight went from a 2 to 32 hour stop in dubai.
    Etihad where spot on never fly emirates again


  • #4
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    overkill602 wrote: »
    So how did they pull that one off to operate in Europe and not having the same conditions European carriers have, to observe different rules.

    They turn off there phone lines off about 5 days before changing and dumping loads of customers my flight went from a 2 to 32 hour stop in dubai.
    Etihad where spot on never fly emirates again


    A flight has to depart from or arrive in the EU for EU laws to apply. DXB-BAH does neither.


  • #5
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,729 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    overkill602 wrote: »
    Emirates not refunding for at least a year if at all..
    Paid a business class ticket had to book another on etihad
    Airlines cleared for rip off in cv19 confusion

    If the first leg of your flight originates in the EU then you will get a refund for that segment, otherwise any legs between 2 non EU airports are governed by local rules. Its the same with the US, you are covered for DUB-ORD but not for ORD-DUB for instance.


  • #6
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    What's the story with connecting flights does anyone know? I have a return, flights now cancelled, with Turkish from Dublin connecting in IST for DXB and back again. I imagine I can get my EC261 for Dublin->Istanbul and return, but wondering about the bit in the middle.


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  • #7
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Inquitus wrote: »
    If the first leg of your flight originates in the EU then you will get a refund for that segment, otherwise any legs between 2 non EU airports are governed by local rules.

    You may have answered my question posted at the same time!


  • #8
    Popeleo
    Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭Popeleo


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    What's the story with connecting flights does anyone know? I have a return, flights now cancelled, with Turkish from Dublin connecting in IST for DXB and back again. I imagine I can get my EC261 for Dublin->Istanbul and return, but wondering about the bit in the middle.

    Under normal rules, you should get compensated for the DUB-IST journey but not the IST-DUB leg as Turkish is a non-EU airline. The same flights under the same circumstances with an EU-based airline would have you able to claim compensation for both legs.

    However, I wouldn't hold my hopes up for getting any compensation from any airline at present. Every airline will be hemorrhaging cash at present with very high fixed costs and very little income coming in, and EU261 compensation will be way down the list of priorities. Just getting a refund will be a success.


  • #9
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Popeleo wrote: »
    Under normal rules, you should get compensated for the DUB-IST journey but not the IST-DUB leg as Turkish is a non-EU airline. The same flights under the same circumstances with an EU-based airline would have you able to claim compensation for both legs.

    However, I wouldn't hold my hopes up for getting any compensation from any airline at present. Every airline will be hemorrhaging cash at present with very high fixed costs and very little income coming in, and EU261 compensation will be way down the list of priorities. Just getting a refund will be a success.

    Just want my refund of whatever I can get... Turkish are offering open tickets but who knows when you'll be travelling. Also, in the event an airline goes belly up (even a bankruptcy for a restructure) you don't want to be left with vouchers that are worth nothing.

    Rang up the support line there - it's like a minefield of options, some of which just get you hung up on.


  • #10
    Stealthirl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Stealthirl


    Im playing a waiting game with EI as i have a booking to BRU end of Aug but can only seek a refund if it's canceled


  • #11
    johnnyrotten
    Registered Users Posts: 3,593 ✭✭✭johnnyrotten


    Anyone know the situation with Aerlingus and Ryanair? I've sought refunds from both who canceled my flights and nothing back.
    Just got emails from them saying to beat with them.


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  • #12
    Creamy Goodness
    Registered Users Posts: 26,556 ✭✭✭✭Creamy Goodness


    johnnyrotten wrote: »
    Anyone know the situation with Aerlingus and Ryanair? I've sought refunds from both who canceled my flights and nothing back.
    Just got emails from them saying to beat with them.

    Got word on March 16th a flight to Spain was cancelled due to COVID-19, submitted refund form on the same day, and bar a Twitter reply on the 30th March quoting 10-15 days I've heard nothing. They've sent me multiple emails asking for me to apply for a voucher/change my dates but I've been ignoring them.


    Flight was yesterday so going to ring them today.


  • #13
    jasonb
    Registered Users Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭jasonb


    So we had a flight booked with Air Canada from Dublin to Vancouver in late June, and then home again in July. Got an email from Air Canada today saying the flight in June as been cancelled (I assume the July one will be too). No mention/option of a refund anywhere in the email or on their website, all they talk about is credit in form of a 2 year voucher.

    Does anyone know if we're entitled to a refund? And if so, how do I go about getting it?

    Thanks...


  • #14
    C.O.Y.B.I.B
    Registered Users Posts: 727 ✭✭✭C.O.Y.B.I.B


    jasonb wrote: »
    So we had a flight booked with Air Canada from Dublin to Vancouver in late June, and then home again in July. Got an email from Air Canada today saying the flight in June as been cancelled (I assume the July one will be too). No mention/option of a refund anywhere in the email or on their website, all they talk about is credit in form of a 2 year voucher.

    Does anyone know if we're entitled to a refund? And if so, how do I go about getting it?

    Thanks...

    I'm booked on same route/airline at end of July back in August , nothing yet . Were you on a non-refundable fare ?


  • #15
    jasonb
    Registered Users Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭jasonb


    Just checked the T&Cs of the tickets, and it says they're non-refundable and non-transferable. Maybe I'm being naïve, but I would have thought that's if we cancel the booking, or try to transfer it, not Air Canada? I expect our return flight will be cancelled in a couple of weeks. Will be very interesting if for some reason they don't cancel the return one, what are we meant to do then?

    I did find this form that may or may not be the right form to use?

    https://accc-prod.microsoftcrmportals.com/en-CA/flight-delay-or-cancellation/


  • #16
    C.O.Y.B.I.B
    Registered Users Posts: 727 ✭✭✭C.O.Y.B.I.B


    jasonb wrote: »
    Just checked the T&Cs of the tickets, and it says they're non-refundable and non-transferable. Maybe I'm being naïve, but I would have thought that's if we cancel the booking, or try to transfer it, not Air Canada? I expect our return flight will be cancelled in a couple of weeks. Will be very interesting if for some reason they don't cancel the return one, what are we meant to do then?

    I did find this form that may or may not be the right form to use?

    https://accc-prod.microsoftcrmportals.com/en-CA/flight-delay-or-cancellation/

    Thanks for that . Same tickets as I have . If you are on one booking , return journey will be the same . I think you are technically entitled to refund once they've cancelled the flight under EU law although it looks increasingly like that may change to protect airlines.
    I'd prefer refund as I got a good price in the flights and I doubt I'll get it again in the next 2 years


  • #17
    jasonb
    Registered Users Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭jasonb


    Yeah, I expect the second flight to be cancelled, or at least I hope it will be! Of course, they'll treat them as two separate flights, even though it's one booking.

    I don't think taking a voucher is a good idea. Firstly, as with any voucher, you're hoping the company doesn't go busy. And then, as you say, the voucher might not cover the cost of the flights you do get when you rebook. The T&Cs of the voucher also say that if your rebooked flight is cheaper, you lose the rest of the money.

    We have Travel Insurance (taken out before all this kicked off) so I'm fairly hopeful we will get our money back, but I wonder how much hassle it will be. I'll try that Air Canada form first, and then talk to the Insurance company if that goes nowhere.


  • #18
    jasonb
    Registered Users Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭jasonb


    Actually went with this form first, as a more 'informal' way of asking them exactly how do I claim a refund, and can I claim it for the full booking, or just the one flight that's been cancelled so far...

    https://accc-prod.microsoftcrmportals.com/en-CA/air-canada-contact-us/?topic=948140005&subtopic=948140018

    We'll see what they say.


  • #19
    C.O.Y.B.I.B
    Registered Users Posts: 727 ✭✭✭C.O.Y.B.I.B


    jasonb wrote: »
    Actually went with this form first, as a more 'informal' way of asking them exactly how do I claim a refund, and can I claim it for the full booking, or just the one flight that's been cancelled so far...

    https://accc-prod.microsoftcrmportals.com/en-CA/air-canada-contact-us/?topic=948140005&subtopic=948140018

    We'll see what they say.

    Cheers for that . Be great to hear how you get on as I'm sure mine will be cancelled as well. I've annual insurance so covered at time of booking .
    I would think Air Canada as a national airline should be bailed out by the government .


  • #20
    jasonb
    Registered Users Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭jasonb


    Yeah, I was thinking that about Air Canada too, but still don't want to take chances.

    I got an automated reply email from them, with a case number. They seem to be treating my 'Request for Information' as an actual claim. The email said they'd be in touch with 120 days. Will let you know how I get on...


  • #21
    TPMP
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭TPMP


    Stealthirl wrote: »
    Im playing a waiting game with EI as i have a booking to BRU end of Aug but can only seek a refund if it's canceled

    I have a flight with EI end of July but now can't go. If the flight ends up going ahead as planned, am I entitled to any sort of refund?


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  • #22
    padser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭padser


    I think people here are also confusing "rights" in terms of refunds and compensation and ability of the airlines to make refunds.

    The reality is, irrespective of EU law, most airlines simply dont sit on enough cash to have their income dry up almost completely, continue to pay most costs and refund all tickets.

    It's not a question of "rights", ifs a question of cash.

    My suggestion to anyone who has paid is go and check your payment method- if it was a credit card, your bank may be able to reverse the charge on the basis service not delivered. I'd suggest doing that quickly, without waiting on airlines to go through their process - a quick look at their balance sheets will tell you that refunds will not come.......


  • #23
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    TPMP wrote: »
    I have a flight with EI end of July but now can't go. If the flight ends up going ahead as planned, am I entitled to any sort of refund?

    No.


  • #24
    Sheep Shagger
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,200 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    padser wrote: »
    I think people here are also confusing "rights" in terms of refunds and compensation and ability of the airlines to make refunds.

    The reality is, irrespective of EU law, most airlines simply dont sit on enough cash to have their income dry up almost completely, continue to pay most costs and refund all tickets.

    It's not a question of "rights", ifs a question of cash.

    My suggestion to anyone who has paid is go and check your payment method- if it was a credit card, your bank may be able to reverse the charge on the basis service not delivered. I'd suggest doing that quickly, without waiting on airlines to go through their process - a quick look at their balance sheets will tell you that refunds will not come.......

    In fairness that's not really the issue of the consumer.

    You enter a contract when you buy a flight, when that's not delivered they have to refund you. Like airlines that go bust, only way to be guaranteed your money back is to go down the charge back route.

    They're offering credits to chance arm and preserve cash.


  • #25
    jasonb
    Registered Users Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭jasonb


    padser wrote: »
    My suggestion to anyone who has paid is go and check your payment method- if it was a credit card, your bank may be able to reverse the charge on the basis service not delivered. I'd suggest doing that quickly, without waiting on airlines to go through their process - a quick look at their balance sheets will tell you that refunds will not come.......

    Is there a time limit on the option of the Bank reversing the charge? I mean we paid for our flights in January, so I don't know if that's too long ago?


  • #26
    Sheep Shagger
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,200 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    jasonb wrote: »
    Is there a time limit on the option of the Bank reversing the charge? I mean we paid for our flights in January, so I don't know if that's too long ago?

    It's from when the service should have been delivered (so flight departure date), Google chargeback and your banks name and it should give you details.


  • #27
    Bigbooty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 229 ✭✭Bigbooty


    Trying to get my sister home(she's having a hard time out in Canada) and BA cancelled her flight back. I've rang them every day and it says they are experiencing a high call volume, reduced staff etc and they cannot take my call right now. It's really frustrating as it seems they are only taking bookings to keep the cashflow going then redirect people to take a credit voucher after they cancel the flight. I've paid for the flight on my credit card so I should be able to get my money back, right? Hard enough getting through to AIB too.


  • #28
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    In terms of your ability to get your money back via chargeback, typically they'll want to see proof of you seeking a refund and about 15 days passing before processing a claim.

    There are a variety of disadvantages to vouchers IMO, not least of which is where they rank in the pecking order if an airline goes to the wall even for the purpose of restructuring. Plus the uncertainty around future (higher) fares that may also devalue your voucher.


  • #29
    Sheep Shagger
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,200 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    In terms of your ability to get your money back via chargeback, typically they'll want to see proof of you seeking a refund and about 15 days passing before processing a claim.

    A sent email is normally sufficient.


  • #30
    jasonb
    Registered Users Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭jasonb


    Sheep Shagger wrote: »
    It's from when the service should have been delivered (so flight departure date), Google chargeback and your banks name and it should give you details.

    Interesting, I'm definitely going to look into this. Of course, the flight itself isn't until late June, but I assume I don't have to wait until then if the airline have already confirmed that they've cancelled the flight. Though I may have to wait until they've cancelled the return flight too before I can get the bank involved. Reckon my first step is to contact my bank and get their take on it.

    Thanks...


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  • #31
    Sheep Shagger
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,200 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    jasonb wrote: »
    Interesting, I'm definitely going to look into this. Of course, the flight itself isn't until late June, but I assume I don't have to wait until then if the airline have already confirmed that they've cancelled the flight. Though I may have to wait until they've cancelled the return flight too before I can get the bank involved. Reckon my first step is to contact my bank and get their take on it.

    Thanks...

    They'll point you to the form. If the outbound flight is cancelled the return one is pretty much useless to you so you should be able to submit then.


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