Covid cancellations and refunds

overkill602

Emirates not refunding for at least a year if at all..
Paid a business class ticket had to book another on etihad
Airlines cleared for rip off in cv19 confusion

Noxegon

overkill602 wrote: »

Emirates not refunding for at least a year if at all..
Paid a business class ticket had to book another on etihad
Airlines cleared for rip off in cv19 confusion

As I understand it the UAE regulations allow airlines to refund cancellations in voucher form only, and a one year time limit for use is normal. I got snared by that a few years ago with a cancelled flydubai flight from DXB-BAH.

overkill602

Noxegon wrote: »

As I understand it the UAE regulations allow airlines to refund cancellations in voucher form only, and a one year time limit for use is normal. I got snared by that a few years ago with a cancelled flydubai flight from DXB-BAH.

So how did they pull that one off to operate in Europe and not having the same conditions European carriers have, to observe different rules.

They turn off there phone lines off about 5 days before changing and dumping loads of customers my flight went from a 2 to 32 hour stop in dubai.
Etihad where spot on never fly emirates again

Cookiemunster

overkill602 wrote: »

So how did they pull that one off to operate in Europe and not having the same conditions European carriers have, to observe different rules.

They turn off there phone lines off about 5 days before changing and dumping loads of customers my flight went from a 2 to 32 hour stop in dubai.
Etihad where spot on never fly emirates again

A flight has to depart from or arrive in the EU for EU laws to apply. DXB-BAH does neither.

Inquitus

overkill602 wrote: »

Emirates not refunding for at least a year if at all..
Paid a business class ticket had to book another on etihad
Airlines cleared for rip off in cv19 confusion

If the first leg of your flight originates in the EU then you will get a refund for that segment, otherwise any legs between 2 non EU airports are governed by local rules. Its the same with the US, you are covered for DUB-ORD but not for ORD-DUB for instance.

Nijmegen

What's the story with connecting flights does anyone know? I have a return, flights now cancelled, with Turkish from Dublin connecting in IST for DXB and back again. I imagine I can get my EC261 for Dublin->Istanbul and return, but wondering about the bit in the middle.

Nijmegen

Inquitus wrote: »

If the first leg of your flight originates in the EU then you will get a refund for that segment, otherwise any legs between 2 non EU airports are governed by local rules.

You may have answered my question posted at the same time!

Popeleo

Nijmegen wrote: »

What's the story with connecting flights does anyone know? I have a return, flights now cancelled, with Turkish from Dublin connecting in IST for DXB and back again. I imagine I can get my EC261 for Dublin->Istanbul and return, but wondering about the bit in the middle.

Under normal rules, you should get compensated for the DUB-IST journey but not the IST-DUB leg as Turkish is a non-EU airline. The same flights under the same circumstances with an EU-based airline would have you able to claim compensation for both legs.

However, I wouldn't hold my hopes up for getting any compensation from any airline at present. Every airline will be hemorrhaging cash at present with very high fixed costs and very little income coming in, and EU261 compensation will be way down the list of priorities. Just getting a refund will be a success.

Nijmegen

Popeleo wrote: »

Under normal rules, you should get compensated for the DUB-IST journey but not the IST-DUB leg as Turkish is a non-EU airline. The same flights under the same circumstances with an EU-based airline would have you able to claim compensation for both legs.

However, I wouldn't hold my hopes up for getting any compensation from any airline at present. Every airline will be hemorrhaging cash at present with very high fixed costs and very little income coming in, and EU261 compensation will be way down the list of priorities. Just getting a refund will be a success.

Just want my refund of whatever I can get... Turkish are offering open tickets but who knows when you'll be travelling. Also, in the event an airline goes belly up (even a bankruptcy for a restructure) you don't want to be left with vouchers that are worth nothing.

Rang up the support line there - it's like a minefield of options, some of which just get you hung up on.

Stealthirl

Im playing a waiting game with EI as i have a booking to BRU end of Aug but can only seek a refund if it's canceled

johnnyrotten

Anyone know the situation with Aerlingus and Ryanair? I've sought refunds from both who canceled my flights and nothing back.
Just got emails from them saying to beat with them.

Creamy Goodness

johnnyrotten wrote: »

Anyone know the situation with Aerlingus and Ryanair? I've sought refunds from both who canceled my flights and nothing back.
Just got emails from them saying to beat with them.

Got word on March 16th a flight to Spain was cancelled due to COVID-19, submitted refund form on the same day, and bar a Twitter reply on the 30th March quoting 10-15 days I've heard nothing. They've sent me multiple emails asking for me to apply for a voucher/change my dates but I've been ignoring them.


Flight was yesterday so going to ring them today.

jasonb

So we had a flight booked with Air Canada from Dublin to Vancouver in late June, and then home again in July. Got an email from Air Canada today saying the flight in June as been cancelled (I assume the July one will be too). No mention/option of a refund anywhere in the email or on their website, all they talk about is credit in form of a 2 year voucher.

Does anyone know if we're entitled to a refund? And if so, how do I go about getting it?

Thanks...

C.O.Y.B.I.B

jasonb wrote: »

So we had a flight booked with Air Canada from Dublin to Vancouver in late June, and then home again in July. Got an email from Air Canada today saying the flight in June as been cancelled (I assume the July one will be too). No mention/option of a refund anywhere in the email or on their website, all they talk about is credit in form of a 2 year voucher.

Does anyone know if we're entitled to a refund? And if so, how do I go about getting it?

Thanks...

I'm booked on same route/airline at end of July back in August , nothing yet . Were you on a non-refundable fare ?

jasonb

Just checked the T&Cs of the tickets, and it says they're non-refundable and non-transferable. Maybe I'm being naïve, but I would have thought that's if we cancel the booking, or try to transfer it, not Air Canada? I expect our return flight will be cancelled in a couple of weeks. Will be very interesting if for some reason they don't cancel the return one, what are we meant to do then?

I did find this form that may or may not be the right form to use?

https://accc-prod.microsoftcrmportals.com/en-CA/flight-delay-or-cancellation/

C.O.Y.B.I.B

jasonb wrote: »

Just checked the T&Cs of the tickets, and it says they're non-refundable and non-transferable. Maybe I'm being naïve, but I would have thought that's if we cancel the booking, or try to transfer it, not Air Canada? I expect our return flight will be cancelled in a couple of weeks. Will be very interesting if for some reason they don't cancel the return one, what are we meant to do then?

I did find this form that may or may not be the right form to use?

https://accc-prod.microsoftcrmportals.com/en-CA/flight-delay-or-cancellation/

Thanks for that . Same tickets as I have . If you are on one booking , return journey will be the same . I think you are technically entitled to refund once they've cancelled the flight under EU law although it looks increasingly like that may change to protect airlines.
I'd prefer refund as I got a good price in the flights and I doubt I'll get it again in the next 2 years

jasonb

Yeah, I expect the second flight to be cancelled, or at least I hope it will be! Of course, they'll treat them as two separate flights, even though it's one booking.

I don't think taking a voucher is a good idea. Firstly, as with any voucher, you're hoping the company doesn't go busy. And then, as you say, the voucher might not cover the cost of the flights you do get when you rebook. The T&Cs of the voucher also say that if your rebooked flight is cheaper, you lose the rest of the money.

We have Travel Insurance (taken out before all this kicked off) so I'm fairly hopeful we will get our money back, but I wonder how much hassle it will be. I'll try that Air Canada form first, and then talk to the Insurance company if that goes nowhere.

jasonb

Actually went with this form first, as a more 'informal' way of asking them exactly how do I claim a refund, and can I claim it for the full booking, or just the one flight that's been cancelled so far...

https://accc-prod.microsoftcrmportals.com/en-CA/air-canada-contact-us/?topic=948140005&subtopic=948140018

We'll see what they say.

C.O.Y.B.I.B

jasonb wrote: »

Actually went with this form first, as a more 'informal' way of asking them exactly how do I claim a refund, and can I claim it for the full booking, or just the one flight that's been cancelled so far...

https://accc-prod.microsoftcrmportals.com/en-CA/air-canada-contact-us/?topic=948140005&subtopic=948140018

We'll see what they say.

Cheers for that . Be great to hear how you get on as I'm sure mine will be cancelled as well. I've annual insurance so covered at time of booking .
I would think Air Canada as a national airline should be bailed out by the government .

jasonb

Yeah, I was thinking that about Air Canada too, but still don't want to take chances.

I got an automated reply email from them, with a case number. They seem to be treating my 'Request for Information' as an actual claim. The email said they'd be in touch with 120 days. Will let you know how I get on...

TPMP

Stealthirl wrote: »

Im playing a waiting game with EI as i have a booking to BRU end of Aug but can only seek a refund if it's canceled

I have a flight with EI end of July but now can't go. If the flight ends up going ahead as planned, am I entitled to any sort of refund?

padser

I think people here are also confusing "rights" in terms of refunds and compensation and ability of the airlines to make refunds.

The reality is, irrespective of EU law, most airlines simply dont sit on enough cash to have their income dry up almost completely, continue to pay most costs and refund all tickets.

It's not a question of "rights", ifs a question of cash.

My suggestion to anyone who has paid is go and check your payment method- if it was a credit card, your bank may be able to reverse the charge on the basis service not delivered. I'd suggest doing that quickly, without waiting on airlines to go through their process - a quick look at their balance sheets will tell you that refunds will not come.......

TPMP

TPMP wrote: »

I have a flight with EI end of July but now can't go. If the flight ends up going ahead as planned, am I entitled to any sort of refund?

No.

Sheep Shagger

padser wrote: »

I think people here are also confusing "rights" in terms of refunds and compensation and ability of the airlines to make refunds.

The reality is, irrespective of EU law, most airlines simply dont sit on enough cash to have their income dry up almost completely, continue to pay most costs and refund all tickets.

It's not a question of "rights", ifs a question of cash.

My suggestion to anyone who has paid is go and check your payment method- if it was a credit card, your bank may be able to reverse the charge on the basis service not delivered. I'd suggest doing that quickly, without waiting on airlines to go through their process - a quick look at their balance sheets will tell you that refunds will not come.......

In fairness that's not really the issue of the consumer.

You enter a contract when you buy a flight, when that's not delivered they have to refund you. Like airlines that go bust, only way to be guaranteed your money back is to go down the charge back route.

They're offering credits to chance arm and preserve cash.

jasonb

padser wrote: »

My suggestion to anyone who has paid is go and check your payment method- if it was a credit card, your bank may be able to reverse the charge on the basis service not delivered. I'd suggest doing that quickly, without waiting on airlines to go through their process - a quick look at their balance sheets will tell you that refunds will not come.......

Is there a time limit on the option of the Bank reversing the charge? I mean we paid for our flights in January, so I don't know if that's too long ago?

Sheep Shagger

jasonb wrote: »

Is there a time limit on the option of the Bank reversing the charge? I mean we paid for our flights in January, so I don't know if that's too long ago?

It's from when the service should have been delivered (so flight departure date), Google chargeback and your banks name and it should give you details.

Bigbooty

Trying to get my sister home(she's having a hard time out in Canada) and BA cancelled her flight back. I've rang them every day and it says they are experiencing a high call volume, reduced staff etc and they cannot take my call right now. It's really frustrating as it seems they are only taking bookings to keep the cashflow going then redirect people to take a credit voucher after they cancel the flight. I've paid for the flight on my credit card so I should be able to get my money back, right? Hard enough getting through to AIB too.

Nijmegen

In terms of your ability to get your money back via chargeback, typically they'll want to see proof of you seeking a refund and about 15 days passing before processing a claim.

There are a variety of disadvantages to vouchers IMO, not least of which is where they rank in the pecking order if an airline goes to the wall even for the purpose of restructuring. Plus the uncertainty around future (higher) fares that may also devalue your voucher.

Sheep Shagger

Nijmegen wrote: »

In terms of your ability to get your money back via chargeback, typically they'll want to see proof of you seeking a refund and about 15 days passing before processing a claim.

A sent email is normally sufficient.

jasonb

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

It's from when the service should have been delivered (so flight departure date), Google chargeback and your banks name and it should give you details.

Interesting, I'm definitely going to look into this. Of course, the flight itself isn't until late June, but I assume I don't have to wait until then if the airline have already confirmed that they've cancelled the flight. Though I may have to wait until they've cancelled the return flight too before I can get the bank involved. Reckon my first step is to contact my bank and get their take on it.

Thanks...

Sheep Shagger

jasonb wrote: »

Interesting, I'm definitely going to look into this. Of course, the flight itself isn't until late June, but I assume I don't have to wait until then if the airline have already confirmed that they've cancelled the flight. Though I may have to wait until they've cancelled the return flight too before I can get the bank involved. Reckon my first step is to contact my bank and get their take on it.

Thanks...

They'll point you to the form. If the outbound flight is cancelled the return one is pretty much useless to you so you should be able to submit then.

Guy:Incognito

I've just got an email ( at 2am, I assume they are US based going by american spelling of words with Z instead of S ?) from Air France after I filled in the online form requesting a refund after they emailed me telling me both legs of my journey was cancelled. They're the same as the others , offering vouchers. My flights were from Dublin to Paris in the 3rd week of May (was travelling for the Champions cup final in Marseilles) . I dont know if or when I'll have use for a voucher for an AIr France/KLM/Delta route so I replied with quotes and links for European Consumer Centre Ireland so Ill see how I get on.

What are banks doing with regard charge backs, are they entertaining them? My flights were only booked at the end of Feb.

Inquitus

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I've just got an email ( at 2am, I assume they are US based going by american spelling of words with Z instead of S ?) from Air France after I filled in the online form requesting a refund after they emailed me telling me both legs of my journey was cancelled. They're the same as the others , offering vouchers. My flights were from Dublin to Paris in the 3rd week of May (was travelling for the Champions cup final in Marseilles) . I dont know if or when I'll have use for a voucher for an AIr France/KLM/Delta route so I replied with quotes and links for European Consumer Centre Ireland so Ill see how I get on.

What are banks doing with regard charge backs, are they entertaining them? My flights were only booked at the end of Feb.

If you used a credit card and you have the communication from the airline confirming the flights will now not go ahead, and that they will not refund you, then you should be able to successfully initiate the chargeback now.

charlietheminxx

I had flights to New York with Delta for tomorrow. I contacted them when the travel ban was introduced as I couldn't change or cancel my booking online. EDIT: I specifically asked them how to obtain a refund as I was receiving an error message on their website.

They gave me an MCO which is valid for a year and it turns out that these are a NIGHTMARE to use, outdated coupons which must be used in full and can only be used if I ring a US hub to make the booking (this is as much information as I can find about them online).

Having listened to a piece on the radio this morning which said airlines should be offering outright refunds but are fobbing people off with vouchers, I contacted Delta again but they are saying it was a voluntary cancellation so I'm not entitled to anything. Does anyone have any advice on this?

FWIW, Delta stopped operating flights between Dublin and New York before I contacted them, have not operated any since and that flight is cancelled.

DubDani

We had flights with EI to Rome for Thursday that were cancelled, for which we haven't received any formal email notification yet. But when I enter the booking details on their Website it said that the booking has been cancelled. So I took a screenshot of that and put through a refund claim. I received email confirmation and will now wait 30 days. After 30 days I will put in a chargeback via my CC company.

Nijmegen

charlietheminxx wrote: »

I had flights to New York with Delta for tomorrow. I contacted them when the travel ban was introduced as I couldn't change or cancel my booking online. EDIT: I specifically asked them how to obtain a refund as I was receiving an error message on their website.

They gave me an MCO which is valid for a year and it turns out that these are a NIGHTMARE to use, outdated coupons which must be used in full and can only be used if I ring a US hub to make the booking (this is as much information as I can find about them online).

Having listened to a piece on the radio this morning which said airlines should be offering outright refunds but are fobbing people off with vouchers, I contacted Delta again but they are saying it was a voluntary cancellation so I'm not entitled to anything. Does anyone have any advice on this?

FWIW, Delta stopped operating flights between Dublin and New York before I contacted them, have not operated any since and that flight is cancelled.

If they're at least responding to you then you could make threats about small claims court etc but the reality is, airlines will drag out refunds as long as possible. Don't have the cash to be forking out to all but the most persistent pains.

cuterob

Supposed to be going to miami next wednesday 29th, aer lingus have stated they are only flying to a couple of american cities but on FR24 the miami flight is still showing, no word frorm EI yet, I obviously cannot go and I do not think they have flown to miami in a long time, also my booking online is still showing on their website, what it is going on here?

Van.Bosch

cuterob wrote: »

Supposed to be going to miami next wednesday 29th, aer lingus have stated they are only flying to a couple of american cities but on FR24 the miami flight is still showing, no word frorm EI yet, I obviously cannot go and I do not think they have flown to miami in a long time, also my booking online is still showing on their website, what it is going on here?

Cat and mouse, they are hoping you cancel so they just give you a voucher at best

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I've just got an email ( at 2am, I assume they are US based going by american spelling of words with Z instead of S ?) from Air France after I filled in the online form requesting a refund after they emailed me telling me both legs of my journey was cancelled. They're the same as the others , offering vouchers. My flights were from Dublin to Paris in the 3rd week of May (was travelling for the Champions cup final in Marseilles) . I dont know if or when I'll have use for a voucher for an AIr France/KLM/Delta route so I replied with quotes and links for European Consumer Centre Ireland so Ill see how I get on.

What are banks doing with regard charge backs, are they entertaining them? My flights were only booked at the end of Feb.

Just got my reply , so I'll be heading down the charge back route to see if I can sort it.

Love how their answer to their own admission of the high degree of uncertainty around air transport is "here, have a voucher that could be worthless"


"We thank you for your email.



Airfrance realizes that - under normal circumstances, if the flight is canceled by Airfrance,the traveler will receive a refund. However, the current situation is so exceptional, given the high degree of uncertainty surrounding air transport and the enormous numberof requests from travelers, that Airfrance is therefore forced to deviate from the normal procedure. In this way, Airfrance is able to provide every passenger with certainty as quickly as possible. Customers can now request a voucher via the website with which the journey can still be made at a later time. If not used, it can still be exchanged for a refund after 12 months. Airfrance counts on your understanding of this."

billy few mates

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Customers can now request a voucher via the website with which the journey can still be made at a later time. If not used, it can still be exchanged for a refund after 12 months. Airfrance counts on your understanding of this."

I'd actually be ok with that, if I don't use it after 12 months they can give me the refund then, I just don't want to be at their mercy with a voucher who's terms and conditions favour them more than me...

Bigbooty

I DMed BA on twitter, quite politely sending the same message every day and they've finally got back to me offering a full refund. Delighted.

Idbatterim

A friend wants to fly from Dublin to Latvia via uk with Ryanair, they have seats on sale from mid may. If seats on se, does this mean flying will definitely be ok and not cancelled?

Inquitus

Idbatterim wrote: »

A friend wants to fly from Dublin to Latvia via uk with Ryanair, they have seats on sale from mid may. If seats on se, does this mean flying will definitely be ok and not cancelled?

Defo prospective at this point.

billy few mates

Idbatterim wrote: »

A friend wants to fly from Dublin to Latvia via uk with Ryanair, they have seats on sale from mid may. If seats on se, does this mean flying will definitely be ok and not cancelled?

A friend wants to risk turning some of their hard earned cash into a Ryanair voucher in May....

Inquitus

billy few mates wrote: »

A friend wants to risk turning some of their hard earned cash into a Ryanair voucher in May....

I wouldn't imagine flights are going to be terribly popular when they start up again, I'd wait and see and buy much closer to the time, if they are flying.

billy few mates

Inquitus wrote: »

I wouldn't imagine flights are going to be terribly popular when they start up again, I'd wait and see and buy much closer to the time, if they are flying.

Exactly, if things are moving again and your friend still wants to travel they can buy the ticket then, whatever airline he chooses to use will be glad of the business. No point in dropping more money into the airline's pocket in the hope that they'll do the right thing.
Don't forget, there are other airlines and other options for getting to Latvia, you don't want to limit your options by having a voucher...

john boye

Emirates has vowed to speed up the process.

https://twitter.com/emirates/status/1254327625356660736?s=19

jasonb

jasonb wrote: »

Interesting, I'm definitely going to look into this. Of course, the flight itself isn't until late June, but I assume I don't have to wait until then if the airline have already confirmed that they've cancelled the flight. Though I may have to wait until they've cancelled the return flight too before I can get the bank involved. Reckon my first step is to contact my bank and get their take on it.

Thanks...

Well, the guy in the Credit Card department in my Bank (PTSB) said there's nothing they can do about flights since the Government announced the travel restrictions (or something like that) and that I should contact the Commission for Aviation Regulation. Don't know if he's just fobbing me off or if he's correct.

I went to the Commission for Aviation Regulation's website, and they have a page that says I've to give the airline 6 weeks to respond to my request/complaint for a refund before I contact them.

So basically this is going nowhere fast...

IngazZagni

Idbatterim wrote: »

A friend wants to fly from Dublin to Latvia via uk with Ryanair, they have seats on sale from mid may. If seats on se, does this mean flying will definitely be ok and not cancelled?

Coming back to this. They had all flights bookable from the 8th of May last week. Now it's from the 15th. In a few days it'll be from the 22nd. Booking those flights will lead to a high probability of a cancelled flight and Ryanair keeping your money for months.

Nijmegen

I paid for a flight since cancelled (and passed the date of flight) using an N26 card (the German online bank), with a travel agency. They've gone quiet and loads of social media flak about not responding. So I waited 15 days after asking them for a refund with no word and then issued a payment dispute as N26 advised me to do on 23rd. Their chargeback team issued it on 24th and got my money back on 29th.

They advised me that it could be disputed by the travel agent but frankly I feel on a lot firmer ground with money back in my account than in theirs and God knows what run to bankruptcy or similar. Not keen on getting a voucher off the airline because frankly we don't know what vouchers are actually worth - When will we be able to travel again; will the flights cost xx% more than I paid; and will the airline just run to bankruptcy itself in the meantime and make vouchers worthless.

Particularly glad to have got it back given the government is now moving the goalposts on refunds so that consumers can be forced to prop up airlines with their money rather than direct bailout cash (yet).

C.O.Y.B.I.B

C.O.Y.B.I.B wrote: »

I'm booked on same route/airline at end of July back in August , nothing yet . Were you on a non-refundable fare ?

In case anyone is in the same boat , this might help.
I booked Air Canada flights through Lastminute.com last Nov. Flight was cancelled in May . Finally got a full cash refund last week after multiple back and forth with Lastminute.com.
Air Canada had no involvement as they said my contract was with Lastminute. Lastminute were unresponsive for the most part and didn't get a single personalised response to any of my emails or phone calls. But have the cash refund which I was hoping for over any vouchers etc..
I was also in the process of doing a chargeback and was 3 months into that process when refund came through