The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

MadYaker · 18-04-2020 04:25PM

Scotland are saying that 25% of all deaths have occured in care homes. Could that be true of the rest of the UK?

Timberrrrrrrr · 18-04-2020 04:28PM

VinLieger wrote: »

In the short term its absolutely possible if they become overwhelmed with patients and enough of their doctors and nurses fall ill

Can't the same be said for every single health service in the world?

VinLieger · 18-04-2020 04:33PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Can't the same be said for every single health service in the world?

Yes whats your point? I was answering specifically regarding the NHS

Professor Moriarty · 18-04-2020 04:33PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Scotland are saying that 25% of all deaths have occured in care homes. Could that be true of the rest of the UK?

50% of Covid-19 deaths in Ireland were nursing home residents. Most of those deaths occurred in hospital.

MadYaker · 18-04-2020 04:33PM

NHS isn't going to be overwhelmed. Rate of hospital admissions are decreasing.

Enzokk · 18-04-2020 04:59PM

Jizique wrote: »

Who is the troll?
Anonymous boards poster or celebrated English journalist who has just joined FT after the guts of 20 years with right-leaning Daily Telegraph

All of us asking questions on the response of the UK Government so far, although ours here will get very little attention in the real world. That seems to be the accusation against those asking questions in this thread, that we have a weird obsession with the UK and it comes from a point of being anti-UK for whatever reason.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

50% of Covid-19 deaths in Ireland were nursing home residents. Most of those deaths occurred in hospital.

Seeing that Scotland is reporting 25% of deaths and from what we have seen in other countries that number in Scotland seems low to me actually. We have more than 50% of deaths in nursing homes so I suspect that the number would be closer to 40% or more of death occurring in care homes in Scotland when they count all the deaths at the end of this.

MadYaker wrote: »

NHS isn't going to be overwhelmed. Rate of hospital admissions are decreasing.

It helps when you don't admit people who go on to die at home, that is one way of ensuring the NHS isn't overwhelmed.

bob mcbob · 18-04-2020 05:57PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Scotland:
In hospital: 1,793 (-6)
In ICU: 182 (-7)
Total confirmed cases: 7,820 (+411)
Total deaths with confirmed COVID-19: 893 (+56)

Therefore as it stands, there are a minimum of 1,287 (893+394) deaths in Scotland (confirmed and suspected)

That is 7 days now where the number in hospital is between 1750 and 1800.
So finger crossed, the peak is over for new hospital admissions.

Deaths are a lagging indicator so they will probably climb for a wee while.

PommieBast · 18-04-2020 07:58PM

Enzokk wrote: »

The manufacturing of ventilators,
Muddled thinking punctures plan for British ventilator

From the start getting non-specialists to build such stuff looked like a sign of desperation. Trying to design one from scratch was a PR vanity exercise.

theological wrote: »

Do you actually think the NHS "collapsing" is a possible outcome?

The NHS had a full-blown retention crisis even before Covid-19 and as soon as it is finished a lot more staff are going to leave with conditions such as PTSD. One or two UK medical schools have even had to resort to clearing to fill places, and nursing courses have already collapsed.

Water John · 18-04-2020 08:00PM

The tracking of deaths is also lagging, in Ireland and moreso in the UK.
Whilst our daily announced figures are still high, the reality is the up to date figures, that is those that died the previous day are well on the decline.

BonnieSituation · 18-04-2020 08:48PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Just wondering if the reliance on the PM as the boss has always been the case or if there has been a shift towards an American style single person in charge? I know that you always need a person at the top but is this "don't do anything without the bosses say so" really necessary in a parliamentary system, a big majority government and a settled cabinet in place?

I mean, if Leo was out with Covid-19 for any length of time, would anyone here really care if Coveney acted Taoiseach? The government has set its policies and most of it is to be guided by the institutions with the relevant expertise. Decisions have to be made. The Taoiseach/PM role is not directly elected and is always subject to change, a hierarchy is in place and if the person at the top is unable to fulfil their role, the next person steps up. It's not like that is in anyway undemocratic, the Taoiseach/PM is elected the same as any other member of Parliament.

I'm not suggesting that Boris has effectively made himself President or anything, just asking if the UK has always been as vested so much power in the PM as currently seems to be the case?

That's literally the role of the Tánaiste. Thank God for written constitution.

mugsymugsy · 18-04-2020 08:51PM

MadYaker wrote: »

NHS isn't going to be overwhelmed. Rate of hospital admissions are decreasing.

They didn't test people in nursing homes and get them admitted they left them to die.

They are running around blind because they haven't tested and because they kept things open for longer.

ArmaniJeanss · 18-04-2020 09:39PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

That's literally the role of the Tánaiste. Thank God for written constitution.

I'm not sure that's actually true.
Our Tanaiste has often been the leader of the junior partner in Coalition (e.g, the list includes Dick Spring, Mary Harney, Eamon Gilmore & Joan Burton) and I don't think there was ever a possibility of the senior party regarding such an individual as the de facto leader of the country for any period of time.

Water John · 18-04-2020 09:47PM

Constitutionally, the Tanaiste would be Acting Taoiseach should anything befall the office holder. The fact that that person might not belong to the largest party of a coalition has nothing to do with it.

RobMc59 · 18-04-2020 09:51PM

MadYaker wrote: »

NHS isn't going to be overwhelmed. Rate of hospital admissions are decreasing.

Mentioning things like the hospital admission rates decreasing and the wonderfully selfless actions of Captain Tom for example will unfortunately be ignored by the anti British brigade here-they`re only interested in their anecdotal musings.:rolleyes:

ArmaniJeanss · 18-04-2020 09:56PM

Water John wrote: »

Constitutionally, the Tanaiste would be Acting Taoiseach should anything befall the office holder. The fact that that person might not belong to the largest party of a coalition has nothing to do with it.

But without any authority, so they'd have the office purely in a ceremonial sense.
Presumably the position wouldn't have been given to a junior party person in the first place if anyone believed it actually meant anything.

So I don't see it as being intrinsically better than the UK situation.

Water John · 18-04-2020 10:00PM

Incorrect. would chair cabinet and would carry out the full functions of a Taoiseach. The VP in the US would do the same when the POTUS is out of action.
It's a specific position to cover eventualities like, happened the the UK PM.

BTW If the UK were doing better than Ireland, I would be on here championing that and berating our own Govn't.

AllForIt · 18-04-2020 10:22PM

If this is true it is understandable that Hancock did not wish to say publicly that the UK offered PPE products were basically rubbish.

edit: Hancock saying that he responded to the UK offers imply's that he turned them down.

https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1251399129332408320

And since I'm on twitter I rather like this one:

https://twitter.com/DavQuinn/status/1251454586956713985

AllForIt · 18-04-2020 10:40PM

Oh, and here's a bit of fact checking in relation to the claims that Hancock voted against a pay rise for nurses.

https://fullfact.org/health/queens-speech-public-sector-pay/

meeeeh · 18-04-2020 10:49PM

There is an excellent article in The Times (I think it will be in tomorrow's edition). It basically shows nobody did anything in UK because Brexit, holidays, divorce, engagement and similar were a priority.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-38-days-when-britain-sleepwalked-into-disaster-hq3b9tlgh

Enzokk · 18-04-2020 10:56PM

AllForIt wrote: »

Oh, and here's a bit of fact checking in relation to the claims that Hancock voted against a pay rise for nurses.

https://fullfact.org/health/queens-speech-public-sector-pay/

The link doesn't make those that voted against the amendment look better, it makes them look worse.

Water John · 18-04-2020 10:59PM

Listening to David Quinn, O God. Sorry, DQ thinks he's God.
Yes I do watch Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark and the other 3 Nordic countries.
https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-IE&gl=IE&ceid=IE:en

Yes, some are doing better than us. The nursing homes will be seen as a failure in Ireland.

meeeeh · 18-04-2020 11:02PM

Numbers in Ireland are not great but they are ok. Who would Quinn like us to compare to? Belgium?

S.M.B. · 18-04-2020 11:14PM

meeeeh wrote: »

There is an excellent article in The Times (I think it will be in tomorrow's edition). It basically shows nobody did anything in UK because Brexit, holidays, divorce, engagement and similar were a priority.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-38-days-when-britain-sleepwalked-into-disaster-hq3b9tlgh

That's a pretty depressing but in depth look at the past 3 months.

BonnieSituation · 18-04-2020 11:21PM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'm not sure that's actually true.
Our Tanaiste has often been the leader of the junior partner in Coalition (e.g, the list includes Dick Spring, Mary Harney, Eamon Gilmore & Joan Burton) and I don't think there was ever a possibility of the senior party regarding such an individual as the de facto leader of the country for any period of time.

It doesn't matter who it is, the Tánaiste had a very clear constitutional role as the "Deputy Prime minister".

The leading coalition can "regard" all it wants.

Water John wrote: »

Constitutionally, the Tanaiste would be Acting Taoiseach should anything befall the office holder. The fact that that person might not belong to the largest party of a coalition has nothing to do with it.

This^^^

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

But without any authority, so they'd have the office purely in a ceremonial sense.
Presumably the position wouldn't have been given to a junior party person in the first place if anyone believed it actually meant anything.

So I don't see it as being intrinsically better than the UK situation.

The authority comes from the constitution. It is purely not ceremonial.

Believe it meant anything? Are you saying that constitutional articles can be meaningless if you believe hard enough? Why do we have referenda so?

Water John wrote: »

Incorrect. would chair cabinet and would carry out the full functions of a Taoiseach. The VP in the US would do the same when the POTUS is out of action.
It's a specific position to cover eventualities like, happened the the UK PM.

BTW If the UK were doing better than Ireland, I would be on here championing that and berating our own Govn't.

Exactly.

---

Bunreacht na h&#201 wrote: »

Article 28
6 1° the taoiseach shall nominate a member of the
Government to be the tánaiste.
2° the tánaiste shall act for all purposes in the
place of the taoiseach if the taoiseach should die,
or become permanently incapacitated, until a new
taoiseach shall have been appointed.
3° the tánaiste shall also act for or in the place
of the taoiseach during the temporary absence of
the taoiseach

Pretty pretty concrete role there.

Enzokk · 18-04-2020 11:22PM

meeeeh wrote: »

There is an excellent article in The Times (I think it will be in tomorrow's edition). It basically shows nobody did anything in UK because Brexit, holidays, divorce, engagement and similar were a priority.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-38-days-when-britain-sleepwalked-into-disaster-hq3b9tlgh

They are claiming Johnson missed 5 COBRA meetings and only attended his first one on the 2nd of March. If only there was warnings about him before this crises,

I was Boris Johnson’s boss: he is utterly unfit to be British prime minister

The weekend stories of his domestic affairs are only an aperitif for his future as Britain’s leader. I have a hunch that Johnson will come to regret securing the prize for which he has struggled so long, because the experience of the premiership will lay bare his absolute unfitness for it.

Norman Baker: I worked with Boris up close. He really is as self-serving and incompetent as he seems

As a government minister at the time, I saw close up what he did as mayor of London. He spent time and money on a white elephant Boris Island airport that was never going to fly. He promoted a garden bridge that has been torn to shreds by the Public Accounts Committee. He introduced at vast cost a huge fleet of new Routemasters with open platforms and conductors, only to withdraw all the conductors and keep the doors shut. He gave us a cable car crossing at Greenwich that is a huge drain on the public finances. And he bought water cannon vehicles from Germany in an attempt to bounce the then Home Secretary, Theresa May, into allowing them on London’s streets, and when she resisted, he went behind her back to David Cameron. Quite rightly, she told him where to get off.

He had a habit of running straight to the Prime Minister or the Chancellor to get his way, ignoring successive Transport Secretaries. He was politically highly partisan in a way that was out of line with the coalition, refusing to engage with Lib Dem ministers even where we could be helpful to him. And behind that bonhomie, he was lazy and petulant. That a lot went right was down to his inheritance from Ken Livingstone, and the highly competent Peter Hendy at his right-hand side. What worked did so in spite of Boris, not because of him.

BonnieSituation · 18-04-2020 11:27PM

Water John wrote: »

Listening to David Quinn, O God. Sorry, DQ thinks he's God.
Yes I do watch Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark and the other 3 Nordic countries.
https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-IE&gl=IE&ceid=IE:en

Yes, some are doing better than us. The nursing homes will be seen as a failure in Ireland.

Listening to David Quinn was a fatal mistake

declanflynn · 18-04-2020 11:27PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

Mentioning things like the hospital admission rates decreasing and the wonderfully selfless actions of Captain Tom for example will unfortunately be ignored by the anti British brigade here-they`re only interested in their anecdotal musings.:rolleyes:

The UK government made all the right moves at all the right times and there is more than enough ppe for front line workers.
There is a lot of fake news coming from Sky,The BBC, The telegraph, Daily Mail and the rest.
Keep fighting for the truth Rob

meeeeh · 18-04-2020 11:32PM

Johnson is liked so you can have all the warnings you want and they would be ignored. He got to power by carefully crafting the Boris persona for years/decades. That being said how bad must be opposition if someone like Boris manages to get such a majority.

blinding · 18-04-2020 11:46PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Johnson is liked so you can have all the warnings you want and they would be ignored. He got to power by carefully crafting the Boris persona for years/decades. That being said how bad must be opposition if someone like Boris manages to get such a majority.

The British Labour Party are a Laughing Stock.

threeball · 19-04-2020 12:06AM

meeeeh wrote: »

Johnson is liked so you can have all the warnings you want and they would be ignored. He got to power by carefully crafting the Boris persona for years/decades. That being said how bad must be opposition if someone like Boris manages to get such a majority.

You're only liked as long as the media tolerate you. As soon as they decide you're sh1t and need to go it wont be long til the public turn. All it takes is a few weeks of sustained attack. Trump survives because the media there wouldn't attack their own if he was drowning kittens in the White House water feature.

The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

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