Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

castletownman · 17-04-2020 01:56PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Do people think their clothes from Penneys are produced by well paid workers?

This Keelings thing is a load of rubbish.

The number of people ranting about it on facebook, the majority from their ethically-produced smart phone of course, are drowning in a sea of irony.

keynes · 17-04-2020 01:58PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Exactly.

The World Health Organisation has their hands tied in many respects. They have to play a careful diplomatic game with countries like China and they cannot just go around all bullish and calling nations liars, especially when they are the originator of a pandemic that may turn into a worldwide problem and the organisation needs access to that nation to ascertain their own factual information.

If the WHO had said in January that they thought China were a bunch of spoofers, they would have been severely marginalised and our situation would have been WORSE, not better.

The whole issue is the WHO lent their imprimatur to Chinese lies and actively promoted them. As a result, they disseminated misinformation, which had catastrophic consequences

hmmm · 17-04-2020 01:58PM

castletownman wrote: »

The number of people ranting about it on facebook, the majority from their ethically-produced smart phone of course, are drowning in a sea of irony.

After holiday-home-gate, I was wondering who the mob was going to blame this week.

So far we've done:
St. Patrick's day
Pubs
People in National Parks
People at beaches
Anyone who leaves their house
Joggers
Holiday home owners
Dubs

Still to do:
Non-mask wearers

tobefrank321 · 17-04-2020 01:59PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Oh shut up.

We're STILL in the early days of this thing and there's a ton we still don't know. Any facts that can be collated are vital.

I'll ignore the shut up, this time.

By late February, it had gained a foothold in Italy, Spain, the US, UK most of Europe and was likely circulating here and in other countries already for weeks.

It couldn't be clearer, the WHO dropped the ball in January. Very costly in terms of human life. Not to mention the economic damage which is estimated to run to 9 trillion dollars.

Acosta · 17-04-2020 02:00PM

Why is Harris on about Airports now? I've not seen the Dublin Airport passenger numbers in the past week, but I'd be surprised at this point if the combined daily figure for the 3 main airports is more than Dublun what would have had in the space of an hour a month ago.

wakka12 · 17-04-2020 02:00PM

Tony EH wrote: »

So what?

Unless the WHO instituted a regime of widespread testing THEMSELVES, they wouldn't know whether China's figures were correct or not.

The idea that the WHO were "lying" is horseshit.

They HAD to go on what China was telling them at the beginning, the same as everyone else.

Not true! WHO had no problem accusing Iran of underreporting deaths and cases massively
https://en.radiofarda.com/a/who-official-says-iran-death-toll-potentially-five-times-higher/30492491.html

I dont know if WHO even sent a team to Iran

caveat emptor · 17-04-2020 02:01PM

[QUOTE=hmmm;113186797]No-one knew at the time that it had spread worldwide Captain Hindsight.

Because that was when the WHO were allowed access to China. If I remember correctly, the US CDC were denied access because the great orange one was crap at diplomacy. The WHO report was quickly published and most countries (with the exception of the US) started preparing on the back of it.[/QUOTE]

I've very sorry but I have to call bulls!t yet again.

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1221542425056940034?s=20

hmmm · 17-04-2020 02:02PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

It couldn't be clearer, the WHO dropped the ball in January. Very costly in terms of human life. Not to mention the economic damage which is estimated to run to 9 trillion dollars.

The WHO can't magically know everything there is about a brand-new virus immediately. They only got access to China through careful diplomacy - if they took the US approach, we'd have lost a month of preparation.

It will be interesting to see who Trump proposes replacing the WHO with - probably Jared or Ivanka.

Shelle1234. · 17-04-2020 02:03PM

castletownman wrote: »

The number of people ranting about it on facebook, the majority from their ethically-produced smart phone of course, are drowning in a sea of irony.

Cant speak for anyone else but for me the biggest problem with it is the blatent disregard for the workers they took in and the ryanair staff. I dont care who picks my strawberries as long as they are safe and likewise cant pass on anything locally. But these guys had no distancing on a plane and no test before flying. If one was infected a whole lot more are and in return it could be an extra 180 odd being admitted to irish hospitals. At least thats my gripe with it

stephenjmcd · 17-04-2020 02:03PM

SweetCaliber wrote: »

Cops stopping nearly all buses on O'Connell street today but still way too many people out, looks like a normal Saturday with the crowds on the webcam today.

They've been doing that and on darts for the last few days.

But this looks like a normal Saturday to you??

hmmm · 17-04-2020 02:04PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

I've very sorry but I have to call bulls!t yet again.

So on the one hand you're saying we can't trust China, and on the other hand we were supposed to immediately accept a report the Chinese issued?

Will you make up your mind?

tobefrank321 · 17-04-2020 02:05PM

hmmm wrote: »

No-one knew at the time that it had spread worldwide Captain Hindsight.

Because that was when the WHO were allowed access to China. If I remember correctly, the US CDC were denied access because the great orange one was crap at diplomacy. The WHO report was quickly published and most countries (with the exception of the US) started preparing on the back of it.

The fact that you keep mentioning hindsight makes you look really silly.

How on earth was it not predictable that a highly contagious disease wouldn't spread worldwide in a matter of weeks if you didn't stop air travel from the Wuhan epicentre, which is exactly what the WHO and China advised against doing?

Nothing to do with hindsight, everything to do with common sense.

Tony EH · 17-04-2020 02:05PM

keynes wrote: »

The whole issue is the WHO lent their imprimatur to Chinese lies and actively promoted them. As a result, they disseminated misinformation, which had catastrophic consequences

The WHO could have ONLY reported what the Chinese were telling them at the time.

They (and nobody else) hadn't any real way of knowing for a fact if the Chinese were feeding them inaccurate information, whether deliberately or by genuine miscalculation.

It would have served nobody at all, if the WHO had just automatically dismissed what China was providing them and branded them as liars. Doing so would have meant LESS information about the virus getting to the WHO (and therefore the rest of the world) in the vital early stages of the outbreak.

Professor Moriarty · 17-04-2020 02:05PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I'll ignore the shut up, this time.

By late February, it had gained a foothold in Italy, Spain, the US, UK most of Europe and was likely circulating here and in other countries already for weeks.

It couldn't be clearer, the WHO dropped the ball in January. Very costly in terms of human life. Not to mention the economic damage which is estimated to run to 9 trillion dollars.

The WHO requested access to China in mid January but were refused. That early enough for you? Just maybe, the people that run WHO might be a bit smarter than little old outraged you?

hmmm · 17-04-2020 02:07PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

How on earth was it not predictable that a highly contagious disease wouldn't spread worldwide in a matter of weeks if you didn't stop air travel from the Wuhan epicentre, which is exactly what the WHO and China advised against doing?

Nothing to do with hindsight, everything to do with common sense.

The outbreak in Italy is believed to have started in late 2019. Well before any travel restrictions were put in place, and the Italians were the first to stop travel to China.

Your "common sense" would not have stopped the outbreak which affected Europe.

I expect we'll see similar results in the US.

The virus was outside China before the world was even aware of it.

17-04-2020 02:11PM

Another outcome of this virus hopefully will be an independent organisation separate to HIQA to monitor and audit nursing homes. HIQA is far too closely linked with nursing home owners.

lawred2 · 17-04-2020 02:11PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

I've very sorry but I have to call bulls!t yet again.

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1221542425056940034?s=20

So the Chinese weren't hiding anything or obfuscating...

I'm confused - thought they weren't to be trusted

caveat emptor · 17-04-2020 02:11PM

hmmm wrote: »

So on the one hand you're saying we can't trust China, and on the other hand we were supposed to immediately accept a report the Chinese issued?

Will you make up your mind?

That's a peer reviewed scientific journal not the CCP. Bit of a difference.
I didn't say we can't trust China. Although with the benefit of hindsight that would probably have been a wise decision. After all every country has to manage public opinion in different ways.

We don't have a great firewall but we do have the. "it'll be grand brigade" which have been redeployed as the "what could we have done" brigade.

How could we have possibly known?
What could we have done?
We were great at getting PPE. Don't mention the 25% of cases being HCWs
list goes on

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1227465400000090113?s=20

Tony EH · 17-04-2020 02:13PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I'll ignore the shut up, this time.

Ignore what you want. Nobody gives a shit.

But you're still talking bollocks.

The WHO hadn't any real choice but to go with what China was providing them with. If they had simply dismissed what China was saying and called them liars, it may have gone some way to pleasing little shitbags on the web who are only interested in pointing fingers, but it wouldn't have served any other purpose and we would be in a bigger mess now.

China was the patient zero of a potential global pandemic and the WHO needed access to that country to gather their own facts. Facts that were going to be vital in combatting the spread of the virus which little was known about in January or February.

New Home · 17-04-2020 02:15PM

Disease X, Ladies and Gentlemen.

joe40 · 17-04-2020 02:16PM

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/apr/10/world-health-organization-who-v-coronavirus-why-it-cant-handle-pandemic

Interesting article about the WHO. I think they did the best job possible with limited resources. They had no power so had to rely on diplomacy.

New Home · 17-04-2020 02:18PM

New Home wrote: »

Disease X, Ladies and Gentlemen.

And to add to that, "Pandemic predictions and preparations prior to COVID-19".

Tony EH · 17-04-2020 02:18PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Not true! WHO had no problem accusing Iran of underreporting deaths and cases massively
https://en.radiofarda.com/a/who-official-says-iran-death-toll-potentially-five-times-higher/30492491.html

I dont know if WHO even sent a team to Iran

He's saying that the testing will reveal better figures.

It isn't the same as calling the Chinese liars or trying to suggest a cover up.

Strazdas · 17-04-2020 02:19PM

Tony EH wrote: »

The WHO hadn't any real choice but to go with what China was providing them with. If they had simply dismissed what China was saying and called them liars, it may have gone some way to pleasing little shitbags on the web who are only interested in pointing fingers, but it wouldn't have served any other purpose and we would be in a bigger mess now.

China was the patient zero of a potential global pandemic and the WHO needed access to that country to gather their own facts. Facts that were going to be vital in combatting the spread of the virus which little was known about in January or February.

100% : if the WHO had gone down the route of aggressive confrontation and calling China liars, the Chinese would have told them to get the hell out of the country and never come back.

It seems to have escaped the attention of the Twitter brigade that the virus started in an authoritarian dictatorship which was always going to make management of the virus a nightmare.

Professor Moriarty · 17-04-2020 02:19PM

joe40 wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/apr/10/world-health-organization-who-v-coronavirus-why-it-cant-handle-pandemic

Interesting article about the WHO. I think they did the best job possible with limited resources. They had no power so had to rely on diplomacy.

I read it. It's excellent. Shows how governments ignored WHO's warnings - including the Orange One. The article is quite critical of WHO too.

hmmm · 17-04-2020 02:20PM

I don't know why you keep quoting this person as if he is some sort of expert. Why haven't you done your research on this? Here's what one of the world's leading epidemiologists has to say.

https://twitter.com/mlipsitch/status/1250235206088482816

s1ippy · 17-04-2020 02:21PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

They've been doing that and on darts for the last few days.

But this looks like a normal Saturday to you??

There are a lot more people in that photo than I expected.

caveat emptor wrote: »

I've very sorry but I have to call bulls!t yet again.

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1221542425056940034?s=20

I actually just completely ignore hmm tell me why Tony EH and a few others here who are just beyond any logic or reason. I enjoy watching them flounder trying to refute all the facts but it's wasted time engaging with them. Those kinds of people were on the thread since Feb but many have changed their tune now, the ones now are just panicked new people who are only catching up so have to double down on their effort to downplay the issues because it's so far out of control.

Things not looking great today on worldometer.

keynes · 17-04-2020 02:22PM

Tony EH wrote: »

The WHO could have ONLY reported what the Chinese were telling them at the time.

They (and nobody else) hadn't any real way of knowing for a fact if the Chinese were feeding them inaccurate information, whether deliberately or by genuine miscalculation.

It would have served nobody at all, if the WHO had just automatically dismissed what China was providing them and branded them as liars. Doing so would have meant LESS information about the virus getting to the WHO (and therefore the rest of the world) in the vital early stages of the outbreak.

They didn't have to enthusiastically report everything on twitter if they didn't know it was "factual". China's history of suppressing information, coupled with the fact that the virus originated in there should have urged caution---lots of caution.

The WHO should have assessed and appraised the information before reporting anything; that's what they get paid millions to do, surely?

hmmm · 17-04-2020 02:24PM

keynes wrote: »

The WHO should have assessed and appraised the information before reporting anything; that's what they get paid millions to do, surely?

I'm confused. On the one hand (in this thread) we are told that we should have accepted what China was saying and should have immediately acted on it, and then on the other hand we should have not accepted what China said and the WHO should have investigated it (which they did).

Did you read the WHO report from their team who went to China? It was excellent, and most of what they advised has been correct. It's not their fault Trump decided that the virus was "just going to disappear" and wanted to prioritise the economy.

Hobgoblin11 · 17-04-2020 02:26PM

Ireland has on 77 recovered people! That's wild

Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

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