Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

Hrududu · 16-04-2020 10:47AM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I do not understand how western governments and healthcare administrators failed to recognise the dangers to nursing and care homes and put in place thorough protocols. We pay these people to have some foresight and plans in place.

Its actually shocking the complete lack of planning for a global pandemic there has been in the US and EU.

Even within the EU. Spain had a headstart on us. Before things really kicked off here we were hearing horror stories about people being left dead in nursing homes. Its not like this came out of the blue when it started happening here.

gabeeg · 16-04-2020 10:49AM

eagle eye wrote: »

That's not the question I asked you. I asked you if you agree with CNN that he should not have restricted flights from China.
They never mentioned trade wars, they called it way ott, xenophobic and fear mongering amongst other things. They were talking about it in relation to covid-19 as was Joe Biden.

To be fair, Trump has history of closing borders with countries for purely xenophobic and racist reasons.
I think it was the same in this case - he was just doing something xenophobic to pander to his base, and accidentally bought the country time to fight the virus.

Time which he subsequently squandered. The idiot.

caveat emptor · 16-04-2020 10:52AM

This is looking less and less like a conspiracy theory.

12th November 2015
Engineered bat virus stirs debate over risky research
https://www.nature.com/news/engineered-bat-virus-stirs-debate-over-risky-research-1.18787

And here's the paper that initiated the "debate".

TLDR
The edited a wild virus to contain the spike protein which binds to ACE2 receptors in humans cells. They then infected human cells in vitro and infected mouses in vivo to show its replicating abilities. All in order to show something terrible "could" happen.

Very coincidental.

A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence

The emergence of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS)-CoV underscores the threat of cross-species transmission events leading to outbreaks in humans. Here we examine the disease potential of a SARS-like virus, SHC014-CoV, which is currently circulating in Chinese horseshoe bat populations1. Using the SARS-CoV reverse genetics system2, we generated and characterized a chimeric virus expressing the spike of bat coronavirus SHC014 in a mouse-adapted SARS-CoV backbone. The results indicate that group 2b viruses encoding the SHC014 spike in a wild-type backbone can efficiently use multiple orthologs of the SARS receptor human angiotensin converting enzyme II (ACE2), replicate efficiently in primary human airway cells and achieve in vitro titers equivalent to epidemic strains of SARS-CoV. Additionally, in vivo experiments demonstrate replication of the chimeric virus in mouse lung with notable pathogenesis. Evaluation of available SARS-based immune-therapeutic and prophylactic modalities revealed poor efficacy; both monoclonal antibody and vaccine approaches failed to neutralize and protect from infection with CoVs using the novel spike protein. On the basis of these findings, we synthetically re-derived an infectious full-length SHC014 recombinant virus and demonstrate robust viral replication both in vitro and in vivo. Our work suggests a potential risk of SARS-CoV re-emergence from viruses currently circulating in bat populations.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

tobefrank321 · 16-04-2020 10:54AM

This really is one of the most important studies on covid 19 so far imo.

https://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/04/14/coronavirus-boston-homeless-testing

146 homeless in a shelter showed up positive, the vast majority asymptomatic.

Its likely a small number got it in the community and then spread it widely in the centre. You'd wonder why so many are asymptomatic, was it due to a reduced viral load. It also appears to counter the argument that there is a genetic element to why some people get a severe reaction to covid 19 and some don't.

On the otherhand, you'd imagine there are a large number of smokers and drinkers among the homeless, but obesity would not be a major issue.

With no hope of a vaccine any time soon, if we could reproduce the Boston homeless shelter outcome with a large number of people being asymptomatic this might be one way forward. Its not like we have many other options.

eagle eye · 16-04-2020 10:59AM

gabeeg wrote:

To be fair, Trump has history of closing borders with countries for purely xenophobic and racist reasons. I think it was the same in this case - he was just doing something xenophobic to pander to his base, and accidentally bought the country time to fight the virus.
Time which he subsequently squandered. The idiot.

Again the political answer not the straight honest answer from you.
You are coming across as a liar, deceiver and full of hidden agendas. A bit like CNN.
I'm just an ordinary guy on the outside looking in with no agendas other than wanting honesty from everybody.

Don't mistake that for being a Trump supporter by the way. I dislike the man immensely. I was always a democrat supporter but they are every bit as bad as the republicans now.

El Weirdo · 16-04-2020 11:00AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

This is looking less and less like a conspiracy theory.

12th November 2015
Engineered bat virus stirs debate over risky research
https://www.nature.com/news/engineered-bat-virus-stirs-debate-over-risky-research-1.18787

And here's the paper that initiated the "debate".

TLDR
The edited a wild virus to contain the spike protein which binds to ACE2 receptors in humans cells. They then infected human cells in vitro and infected mouses in vivo to show its replicating abilities. All in order to show something terrible "could" happen.

Very coincidental.

A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

Miss this bit, did we?

30 March 2020 Editors’ note, March 2020: We are aware that this article is being used as the basis for unverified theories that the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 was engineered. There is no evidence that this is true; scientists believe that an animal is the most likely source of the coronavirus.

Kermit.de.frog · 16-04-2020 11:00AM

wakka12 wrote: »

Japan has declared a nationwide state of emergency this morning as cases rise throughout all provinces of the country

Cases in Japan have grown from 4,600 one week ago to over 8,600 today, deaths have also doubled over the last 7 days from 90 to 180

Hard to believe just little over two weeks a go they were adamant the Olympics would be going ahead! They made the right call there.

gabeeg · 16-04-2020 11:01AM

eagle eye wrote: »

Again the political answer not the straight honest answer from you.
You are coming across as a liar, deceiver and full of hidden agendas. A bit like CNN.
I'm just an ordinary guy on the outside looking in with no agendas other than wanting honesty from everybody.

Don't mistake that for being a Trump supporter by the way. I dislike the man immensely. I was always a democrat supporter but they are every bit as bad as the republicans now.

sure thing pal

eagle eye · 16-04-2020 11:03AM

gabeeg wrote:

sure thing pal

That reply has probably more honesty than any of your others.

rossie1977 · 16-04-2020 11:04AM

eagle eye wrote: »

That's not the question I asked you. I asked you if you agree with CNN that he should not have restricted flights from China.
They never mentioned trade wars, they called it way ott, xenophobic and fear mongering amongst other things. They were talking about it in relation to covid-19 as was Joe Biden.

Biden never said that. Biden said stopping flights and building a wall won't stop the virus which is correct especially after horse had bolted. Italy were the first country on Earth to ban flights from China...

The xenophobic/fear mongering had nothing to do with China, that was something else and used by right wing pundits and Trumps campaign ads https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trump-campaigns-misleading-ad-attacking-biden-on-china/

gabeeg · 16-04-2020 11:04AM

eagle eye wrote: »

That reply has probably more honesty than any of your others.

I've no idea what you're banging on about

I think you have me pegged for someone else

caveat emptor · 16-04-2020 11:05AM

El Weirdo wrote: »

Miss this bit, did we?

Fair play for clicking on link. No I didn't miss it, I read the article. Did you? What are your thoughts apart from the editor's notes.

We are aware that this story is being used as the basis for unverified theories that the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 was engineered.

I don't think it's a conspiracy theory. I think it's a fvck up. Some serious amount of coincidences. That tag leaves out that some scientists do believe it was engineered and so not balanced. To be clear this is a completely unverified theory.

All theories are unverified at first.

bekker · 16-04-2020 11:06AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ideal Government - Taoiseach - Scientist, Finance - Accountant, Justice - Not a lawyer, Transport - Engineer, Agriculture - Economist, Foreign Affairs - Historian, Health - Scientist

A recipe for blinker thinking, and unbalanced decision making.

What is necessary in a minister is the ability to seek advice from a variety of sources, balance that advice in line with his/her responsibilities, and make decisions. Then ensure that the policies developed by his/her ministry is consistent with those decisions and implement in full without the deviations desired by his officials, and there are always deviations desired by officials.

Ministers are in a constant struggle to have funds allocated, encourage/press officials to go beyond their silos, and ensure co-operation and co-ordination across departments. An individual possessing the qualities to implement the forgoing is what is required, irrespective of formal training or experience.

From a historical perspective ministers who have been put in charge of ministries allied to their speciality have a less than stellar record.

syngindub · 16-04-2020 11:08AM

Where is Trump coming from saying they have past the peak. That Curve ain't flat boss

Beasty · 16-04-2020 11:12AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

I don't think it's a conspiracy theory. I think it's a fvck up. Some serious amount of coincidences. That tag leaves out that some scientists do believe it was engineered and so not balanced. To be clear this is a completely unverified theory.

All theories are unverified at first.

At this stage, I'm "ruling" (for the purposes of this thread) that it is - so please discontinue the discussion here

grindle · 16-04-2020 11:14AM

syngindub wrote: »

Where is Trump coming from saying they have past the peak. That Curve ain't flat boss

Imagine being surprised that a boldfaced lie was presented as truth. It's his wheelhouse. His pressers have been astonishing in their audacity recently.

growleaves · 16-04-2020 11:16AM

N.Y.C. Death Toll Soars Past 10,000 in Revised Virus Count

The city has added more than 3,700 additional people who were presumed to have died of the coronavirus but had never tested positive.

We're well into Dodge city now.

UTRIs are probably the leading cause of the death in the world for the elderly and very sick. So to say that someone with UTRI-like symptoms who didn't test positive for covid died from covid... Lysenkoism imo.

growleaves · 16-04-2020 11:17AM

Trump says US has ‘passed the peak’ of coronavirus outbreak

Over the past six days, the rate of new cases has declined across the country, Coronavirus Response Coordinator Dr. Deborah Birx said, adding that nine states have less than 1,000 cases each and report fewer than 30 new cases per day. However, she said the administration is concerned about Providence, Rhode Island, which is in a “unique situation,” caught between two hot spots, New York and Boston.

crossman47 · 16-04-2020 11:20AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Perhaps an entrepreneurially property developer would work :pac:

Certainly not - even worse than an accountant

is_that_so · 16-04-2020 11:20AM

maninasia wrote: »

It's not logucal to think that cutting the flow of people infected with a virus from an epidemic hotspot would not be beneficial. Many countries closed off flights such as Taiwan and New Zealand and it was very effective in getting on top of the situation early on. Even one day can have a big impact due to the exponential nature of the spread of the virus.

Research on it by WHO themselves suggested there is not a lot to be gained from it IF you are following the other known effective guidelines. It's an individual choice of countries but people are likely to find a way around bans in our connected world.

eagle eye · 16-04-2020 11:20AM

rossie1977 wrote:

Biden never said that. Biden said stopping flights and building a wall won't stop the virus which is correct especially after horse had bolted. Italy were the first country on Earth to ban flights from China...

Are you seriously beating that stopping flights won't help against the spread of the virus?

rossie1977 wrote:

The xenophobic/fear mongering had nothing to do with China, that was something else and used by right wing pundits and Trumps campaign ads

I presume the link you posted is something run by democrats.
I watched CNN discuss and agree with Biden's comments at the time and they had it down as relating to Trump's actions in relation to covid-19. I don't have access to programming from CNN so I can't go and find it and put it up unfortunately.

MrMusician18 · 16-04-2020 11:21AM

gabeeg wrote: »

The numbers are of course heavily influenced by the lockdown.

This is pretty basic stuff, but clearly beyond you. Fascinating really. Your world must be a very odd place.

He lockdown has probably only reduced the number of cases to date by half. For something this virulent you need absolutely total compliance not near total compliance for the measures to have the effect of killing it off.

10% not adhering to the measures (which is not an unreasonable assumption, just by looking out my window, behavioural scientists think non compliance is normally between 15 and 20%) reduce the effectiveness of the measures by 50%.

So the real question is the way out. Should we be looking to use this time to continue to build massive healthcare capacity and then lift restrictions. Unless we get a vaccine, this is going to move through the population anyway.

frillyleaf · 16-04-2020 11:25AM

Fakediamond wrote: »

Professor Kim is back and once again, it’s a must watch....

https://youtu.be/QwoNP9QWr4Y

Good video

normanoffside · 16-04-2020 11:26AM

Universal testing in a large Homeless shelter in Boston revealed that 36% had the disease on the day of testing (147 people)

Only 1 had a fever and 13 had a cough.

None were seriously sick.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.12.20059618v1

wakka12 · 16-04-2020 11:28AM

Important to note that not showing symptoms at the time of testing does not mean those people will not later develop symptoms, especially given an incubation period of a 5-7 days or more

blade1 · 16-04-2020 11:28AM

ZX7R · 16-04-2020 11:29AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

551 deaths and over 5,100 new cases reported in Spain.

Deaths up a bit on yesterday but new cases continue to accelerate up from 3,000 on Tuesday.

Spain have only reported 2157 new cases
And 318 new deaths today April 16

caveat emptor · 16-04-2020 11:29AM

Sorry for speculating. I linked to nature. Of course its origin doesn't really change much for us as we are where we are now. I was reprimanded for using the term airborne early on. HSE reports showing transmission in some clusters as being airborne. I will cease and desist until such a time that it is proven.

Nature is a British multidisciplinary scientific journal, first published on 4 November 1869.[1] It is one of the most recognizable scientific journals in the world, and was ranked the world's most cited scientific journal by the Science Edition of the 2018 Journal Citation Reports and is ascribed an impact factor of 43.070,[2] making it one of the world's top academic journals.

Hobgoblin11 · 16-04-2020 11:29AM

wakka12 wrote: »

Important to note that not showing symptoms at the time of testing does not mean those people will not later develop symptoms, especially given an incubation period of a 5-7 days or more

this virus is pretty good at what it does, survive, I just hope its cousins in the future are not any worse

Azatadine · 16-04-2020 11:30AM

wakka12 wrote: »

Important to note that not showing symptoms at the time of testing does not mean those people will not later develop symptoms, especially given an incubation period of a 5-7 days or more

Its one thing that should always be made clear. Asymptomatic versus pre-symptomatic. Big difference.

Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

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