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Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

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Comments

  • #5882
    blackcard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,477 ✭✭✭blackcard


    is_that_so wrote: »
    I believe Belgium has quite a problem in their nursing homes.

    Two weeks ago Belgium was at 90 deaths per million population, Ireland was around 20 or so. I posted that we could be up with Belgium in a couple of weeks. We are now on 92 deaths per million but Belgium has moved on to 419 deaths per million with over 4000 deaths and rising rapidly. I am scared for us


  • #5883
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Cuomo wins in 2024 if he is interested. He'd win 2020 if he was put forward for it, even as an independent.


    My apologies I thought the nickname was in relation to the clown that is currently minister for health.


    Do you ever watch the channel? Did you ever go and fact check when you heard something that sounded too far fetched? I have and found they were regularly shortening what was said to make it sound like
    something completely different to what was actually said, have unsubstantiated news regularly and have conversations about issues where they all agree in the opposite side to the republicans.

    Balance is not both sides its facts. When someone is wrong they are wrong, and not giving both sides when one side is ludicrous is not bias


  • #5884
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    Refractions wrote: »
    Some proper clowns on here. Open everything back up now and we would destroy the health system in short order.

    Nobody is saying that. A lot of posters are arguing that we should have a controlled easing of restrictions.

    Totally different to the total removal of the restrictions.


  • #5885
    BanditLuke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    Refractions wrote: »
    Some proper clowns on here. Open everything back up now and we would destroy the health system in short order.

    They don't care. Pubs, restaurants, gyms, rugby etc..all more important to them.

    Same posters would tell you they support the HSE.


  • #5886
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    blackcard wrote: »
    Two weeks ago Belgium was at 90 deaths per million population, Ireland was around 20 or so. I posted that we could be up with Belgium in a couple of weeks. We are now on 92 deaths per million but Belgium has moved on to 419 deaths per million with over 4000 deaths and rising rapidly. I am scared for us
    As mentioned above George Lee is hopeful so we're fine! Stable is the word they are using in relation to hospital cases. We will unfortunately have more deaths but the renewed focus on NHs should help mitigate that.


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  • #5887
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    gabeeg wrote: »
    The numbers are of course heavily influenced by the lockdown.

    This is pretty basic stuff, but clearly beyond you. Fascinating really. Your world must be a very odd place.

    Read my posts.

    Nobody arguing that lockdown should be lifted in totality.

    A controlled easing of restrictions to ensure their is a functioning economy to return too.

    Leave out the personal tone of your insults against me.


  • #5888
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    growleaves wrote: »
    Lol

    What is the point of re-printing this graph without commentary?

    Do you want us to infer that the bigger spike in infections means that covid is much, much deadlier than the Asian flu pandemic which killed 2 million people? Why not just say that then?

    Is the sharpness of this spike supposed to scare us? In fact the exponential decreases could be as sharp as the increases.

    Even for this thread just throwing out data without interpretation is a bit silly.
    Equally, it could not be. The graph is pretty clear, yes in the time that COVID has been at epidemic levels, it is much much deadlier than the Asian flu pandemic. What else do you judge it by exactly, other than by the amount of deaths it has caused while it has been at epidemic level


  • #5889
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    smelly sock wrote: »
    Look Pal im only going on the numbers available. Sorry to hear about your personal experience. Wouldnt wish it on anyone.

    The numbers for me don't justify the level of lockdown we wre having.

    **** sake, nobody dies of measles anymore, why are we wasting so much money on national and worldwide vaccination programs?



    That's the level of your arguments.


  • #5890
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,985 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Deleted User wrote:
    Balance is not both sides its facts. When someone is wrong they are wrong, and not giving both sides when one side is ludicrous is not bias
    They were agreeing with Biden back in January calling Trump's decision to restrict flights from China as way ott, fear mongering, xenophobic etc.
    I suppose you agree with them?


  • #5891
    rm212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 689 ✭✭✭rm212


    smelly sock wrote: »
    Look Pal im only going on the numbers available. Sorry to hear about your personal experience. Wouldnt wish it on anyone.

    The numbers for me don't justify the level of lockdown we wre having.

    Why do people repeatedly not get that the numbers are as they are as a result of the lockdown, they are not supposed to be justification for it as they would be totally different if not for the lockdown!


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  • #5892
    crossman47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,626 ✭✭✭crossman47


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ideal Government - Taoiseach - Scientist, Finance - Accountant, Justice - Not a lawyer, Transport - Engineer, Agriculture - Economist, Foreign Affairs - Historian, Health - Scientist

    Agree with some of that but certainly not an accountant in Finance. They might balance the books but that would be it.


  • #5893
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    smelly sock wrote: »
    Read my posts.

    Nobody arguing that lockdown should be lifted in totality.

    A controlled easing of restrictions to ensure their is a functioning economy to return too.

    Leave out the personal tone of your insults against me.

    I'm not trying to be smart or pick on you here but what would you open up right now?

    How would you go about easing the restrictions? What opens tomorrow, what controls etc. What opens then after that, and again what controls?


  • #5894
    Carbon125
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 177 ✭✭Carbon125


    growleaves wrote: »
    Lol

    What is the point of re-printing this graph without commentary?

    Do you want us to infer that the bigger spike in infections means that covid is much, much deadlier than the Asian flu pandemic which killed 2 million people? Why not just say that then?

    Is the sharpness of this spike supposed to scare us? In fact the exponential decreases could be as sharp as the increases.

    Even for this thread just throwing out data without interpretation is a bit silly.
    The only thing silly here is your interpretation of the data.


  • #5895
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,811 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    551 deaths and over 5,100 new cases reported in Spain.

    Deaths up a bit on yesterday but new cases continue to accelerate up from 3,000 on Tuesday.


  • #5896
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,621 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    blackcard wrote: »
    Two weeks ago Belgium was at 90 deaths per million population, Ireland was around 20 or so. I posted that we could be up with Belgium in a couple of weeks. We are now on 92 deaths per million but Belgium has moved on to 419 deaths per million with over 4000 deaths and rising rapidly. I am scared for us

    I do not understand how western governments and healthcare administrators failed to recognise the dangers to nursing and care homes and put in place thorough protocols. We pay these people to have some foresight and plans in place.

    Its actually shocking the complete lack of planning for a global pandemic there has been in the US and EU.


  • #5897
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    crossman47 wrote: »
    Agree with some of that but certainly not an accountant in Finance. They might balance the books but that would be it.

    Perhaps an entrepreneurially property developer would work :pac:


  • #5898
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    eagle eye wrote: »
    They were agreeing with Biden back in January calling Trump's decision to restrict flights from China as way ott, fear mongering, xenophobic etc.
    I suppose you agree with them?

    This was discussed yesterday, but Trumps decision to restrict flights to China was all down to Trumps trade war with China and not in anyway related to public health as evidenced by the subsequent 6 weeks.


  • #5899
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    551 deaths and over 5,100 new cases reported in Spain.

    Deaths up a bit on yesterday but new cases continue to accelerate up from 3,000 on Tuesday.

    Looks more like Spain had their own backlog


  • #5900
    Rvsmmnps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 151 ✭✭Rvsmmnps


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    And those 135,000 people aren't really dead

    Totals from all illnesses effected by various strains of corona virus will show increase come the end of the year


  • #5901
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    I do not understand how western governments and healthcare administrators failed to recognise the dangers to nursing and care homes and put in place thorough protocols. We pay these people to have some foresight and plans in place.

    Its actually shocking the complete lack of planning for a global pandemic there has been in the US and EU.

    It's very simple really. Taking measures that would only impact the old and vulnerable (that includes nursing homes) was never going to be acceptable in modern western society, where everyone must be treated equally regardless. We have paid for our PC nonsense.


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  • #5902
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I'm not trying to be smart or pick on you here but what would you open up right now?

    How would you go about easing the restrictions? What opens tomorrow, what controls etc. What opens then after that, and again what controls?

    Fair question BattleCorp and appreciate your engagement.

    I think we need to get people back to work for a start. I'm not advocating people using public transport and exposing themselves but I'd think anyone who need to be onsite for work and to get paid goes there via their car etc.

    If you can work from home then do so.

    DIY stores/ Electrical outlets etc should reopen and use social distancing measures to ensure less risk of transmission. If Tesco / lidl / aldi etc can do it then no reason why Woodies/ Bandq / Chadwicks etc can't.

    Pubs restaurants to stay closed.


  • #5903
    gabeeg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭gabeeg


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    551 deaths and over 5,100 new cases reported in Spain.

    Deaths up a bit on yesterday but new cases continue to accelerate up from 3,000 on Tuesday.

    that is very disconcerting

    any sort of an explanation out there?


  • #5904
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,049 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Equally, it could not be. The graph is pretty clear, yes in the time that COVID has been at epidemic levels, it is much much deadlier than the Asian flu pandemic. What else do you judge it by exactly, other than by the amount of deaths it has caused while it has been at epidemic level

    The Asian flu pandemic had twenty times more deaths than covid (so far) due to the length of the epidemic.

    Any novel disease - or normal strain of influenza - could put the Black Death in the halfpenny place if the number of deaths per million kept increasing and the length of the epidemic went on and on.

    This graph doesn't tell us anything about what is going to happen in the future.

    I would judge it on factors not contained in this graph.


  • #5905
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Estimates of at least 3500 unreported dead at home and in nursing homes and hospices in Madrid alone

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/world/europe/coronoavirus-spain-death-toll.html

    Spain's death toll overall may double when taking into account home deaths.
    Catalonia is the first Spanish state to add nursing home and home deaths and it's death toll doubled from 3500 to over 7000.

    Also controversy over how many died in Spain before the first official coronavirus death was registered, the country experienced a sharp increase in the number of pneumonia deaths in late February before any coronavirus deaths were confirmed.
    “I think the official numbers of the dead obviously don’t add up,” said Juan Antonio Alguacil, who heads a Spanish association of funerary employees.

    He said that in late February, before Spain officially registered its first coronavirus death, his colleagues had already been handling an “illogical” increase in the number of pneumonia cases.


  • #5906
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,049 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Carbon125 wrote: »
    The only thing silly here is your interpretation of the data.

    Uh I didn't offer any interpretation of the data.


  • #5907
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Japan has declared a nationwide state of emergency this morning as cases rise throughout all provinces of the country

    Cases in Japan have grown from 4,600 one week ago to over 8,600 today, deaths have also doubled over the last 7 days from 90 to 180

    Japan to best of my knowledge have oldest population in the world

    This.could be horrendous,if it gets in there


  • #5908
    maninasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,636 ✭✭✭maninasia


    is_that_so wrote: »
    He actually pointed out the uselessness of it as people could have flown in from elsewhere in pre-lockdown days in Italy. Evidence on the efficacy of such a measure is dubious anyway. Here's a piece on the US "ban".

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2020/03/12/italy-banned-flights-from-china-before-americait-didnt-work/

    It's not logucal to think that cutting the flow of people infected with a virus from an epidemic hotspot would not be beneficial. Many countries closed off flights such as Taiwan and New Zealand and it was very effective in getting on top of the situation early on. Even one day can have a big impact due to the exponential nature of the spread of the virus.


  • #5909
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,985 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Deleted User wrote:
    This was discussed yesterday, but Trumps decision to restrict flights to China was all down to Trumps trade war with China and not in anyway related to public health as evidenced by the subsequent 6 weeks.
    That's not the question I asked you. I asked you if you agree with CNN that he should not have restricted flights from China.
    They never mentioned trade wars, they called it way ott, xenophobic and fear mongering amongst other things. They were talking about it in relation to covid-19 as was Joe Biden.


  • #5910
    Seamie12345
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9 ✭Seamie12345


    maninasia wrote: »
    Partly . But it's also the political willpower to take controversial decisions early on. Taiwan banned all entry of Chinese , HKers and Macau months ago. Extended school holidays way back at start of Feb.
    Also started quarantining people early on and surveying all incoming visitors.

    You need to have a leader who is willing to lead. It's not like those decisions are accepted off the bat ! Taiwan is a democracy there are different interests and voices. Quality of leadership very much matters.

    Leo and Co allowed flights to come in from Italy when the epidemic was already widespread there. Didn't ban flights, didn't quarantine people, didn't even question them coming in . The reasons, pressure from the EU and business people at home. Leaders need to take tough decisions.

    You need to quarantine people coming in and enforce the quarantine. Taiwan had 50k people under strict home quarantine at one point. If you don't quarantine incoming people they can always start another cluster of infection .

    Madness !

    Absolute madness, so true. I'd have been willing to go along with our approach if this one GLARING anomaly was dealt with. It's totally unacceptable to be asking our population to be in 5 weeks of this with more to come (5 weeks since schools closed) and allowing every dog and divil into the country without being forced to quarantine themselves - and I don't mean a leaflet of advice, it's insulting and upsetting to the rest of the nation doing what's being asked. Do we want to make this last longer than necessary? Is there some perverse glee in how much this will destroy our economy? It is beyond baffling, frustrating and no longer good enough.
    WHY will no one in "leadership" actually answer this question properly??? Yes we cannot cut ourselves off from the rest of the world entirely, but we need freight not tourists !!!!

    Interestingly, one of the key criteria within GE years ago for the identification of future leaders was "Edge" - this refers to the willingness to make difficult decisions without worrying about being popular - MASSIVE FAIL FOR OUR GOVERNMENT on that criterion then


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  • #5911
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,811 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    gabeeg wrote: »
    that is very disconcerting

    any sort of an explanation out there?

    Barcelona said to have deteriorated significantly in recent days is part of it apparently.

    The focus now is will Spain be the first country to take the consequences of having to shut down construction sites, for example, again.

    The WHO has warned countries over and over again not to get in to an endless 'doom cycle'.

    It will be a at least a week yet before figures start filtering through in terms of new cases from the limited openings.

    There is deep disquiet in Spain on a number of fronts actually regarding the whole thing. The govt is in some difficulty and accused of lying, coverups and recklessness by opposition.


This discussion has been closed.
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