Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

tikkahunter · 13-04-2020 08:23PM

messin doorman wrote: »

To cap it all off we don’t even have a functioning parliament yet to hold the government to account either. Again, not something anyone was in a rush to remedy

Last time the Dáil sat harris was screaming that they should NOT be sitting and it was shameful owing to the health risk.

Absolute twilight zone stuff. You wouldn’t get French people putting up with this galactical absurdity

What’s the infection and death rates in France again ?

JP Liz V1 · 13-04-2020 08:24PM

Ardent wrote: »

I can't believe the rubbish I'm reading on this thread - nitpicking and potshots at the government. Let's be clear, there are no winners with this virus, only losers. And the countries that lose the least are those that follow WHO and medical advice. I think our current leaders have done a fine job up to now in that regard.

“We have a simple message for all countries: test, test, test.”

These are the words of Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director general of the World Health Organisation (WHO)

RobertKK · 13-04-2020 08:24PM

messin doorman wrote: »

To cap it all off we don’t even have a functioning parliament yet to hold the government to account either. Again, not something anyone was in a rush to remedy

Last time the Dáil says harris was screaming that they should be be sitting and it was shameful owing to the risk.

Absolute twilight zone stuff. You wouldn’t get French people putting up with this galactical absurdity

The previous day to that Simon Harris was at a photo op and no complaints. Josepha Madigan called the meeting of the Dáil as being shameful. The next day she was at a photo op, and to top it all off the Irish government joined in with other governments to condemn Hungary over their parliament situation.
But this is the government doing a good job...

caveat emptor · 13-04-2020 08:25PM

messin doorman wrote: »

By all means heed the advice of your experts. In fact if you believe in the advice, follow it. But be accountable for it. Understand the advice, probe it, critique it, stand over it. And when a journalist probes you over your decisions as an elected representative have the spine and courage and principle to explain why you took the decisions you took and why your experts were right. Don’t point the figure at your experts like a coward, like you are a passenger in this crisis.

Exactly. You can delegate a task such as "Find the best course of action in this situation based on science."

You cannot delegate responsibility. That goes to Leo.

growleaves · 13-04-2020 08:32PM

Last week the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) in Seattle, Washington, which the Guardian calls “the best organisation in the world at collecting data on diseases”, predicted Irish deaths will be 400 and stated that Ireland has actually passed its peak of infections and of resource use of hospital and ICU beds. In fact it seems to have miscalled the peak by a few days but its thrust is still a probability, including about how we are positioned with capacity. Actually as of 13 March there are 148 Covid-19 patients in ICU and a capacity of around 800. This last figure is oft-under-represented.

Remarkably, the Deputy Chief Medical Officer dismissed the IHME report as “unreliable” and the Irish Times, for example, suppressed the story.

Hmm this prediction from the IHME of 400 deaths in Ireland would put covid in the range of....a normal flu season. Hopefully this crowd are on to something.

froog · 13-04-2020 08:34PM

caveat emptor · 13-04-2020 08:37PM

I never thought I'd be saying that Italian reporting is far superior to Irish. While they are usually more bureaucratic they've managed to report extremely consistently. Put's our reporting in stark contrast.

Based on latest hpsc report. There is a 20% hospitalisation rate. Fairly high.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/COVID-19%20Epidemiology%20report%20for%20NPHET%2012.04.2020%20_v1_website.pdf

This is much higher than most regions in Italy and highlights our lack of testing. (our data set is skewed toward those already in a hospital setting)

http://www.salute.gov.it/imgs/C_17_notizie_4459_0_file.pdf

What Username Guidelines · 13-04-2020 08:38PM

growleaves wrote: »

Hmm this prediction from the IHME of 400 deaths in Ireland would put covid in the range of....a normal flu season. Hopefully this crowd are on to something.

They also predicted 20,000 deaths in Italy. Which it’s above by 500 that it added today. It’s owing overall, but they’re still registering ~4k cases a day over a month into lockdown.

growleaves · 13-04-2020 08:39PM

There is no unanimity when it comes to medical advice around novel diseases.

The claim that a particular piece of medical advice is "non-political", the implication that there are no other medical experts to controvert it or that the only people who can found to oppose it are layperson know-nothings is extremely misleading.

Roger_007 · 13-04-2020 08:39PM

RobertKK wrote: »

I do not know.
There is a void in between where all are putting the responsibility.

The experts rightly say they give their advice and it is up to the government to make a decision based on that.
At the same time rather than accepting ultimate responsibility, the government do be sure to make it clear how it was not their own wisdom, but they make it clear it is based on the experts and they are doing it based on what they said.
This takes away the responsibility the government have for the decision, if it goes wrong, they will not accept the responsibility but blame the experts.
The experts have been left very exposed by the government.

I agree with this. Responsibility for decisions must always rest with political leaders. It is true that expert advice must weigh very heavily when it comes to matters of public health but very often there is conflicting advice and political leaders must choose what course of action to take.
In this Covid crisis, different countries have chosen different strategies to deal with it. Nobody knows yet for sure who has chosen the best strategy but the choice is always a political one. It is quite possible that we will have thrashed our economy for no appreciable gain. In a few months a lot of people may be looking at other countries like Sweden or Japan and wonder why we couldn’t have taken that kind of approach.
Those decisions are entirely political and political leaders will enjoy the praise or shoulder the blame depending on how it turns out in the end.

trapp · 13-04-2020 08:40PM

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

They also predicted 20,000 deaths in Italy. Which it’s above by 500 that it added today. It’s owing overall, but they’re still registering ~4k cases a day over a month into lockdown.

How I wonder?

trapp · 13-04-2020 08:41PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

I agree with this. Responsibility for decisions must always rest with political leaders. It is true that expert advice must weigh very heavily when it comes to matters of public health but very often there is conflicting advice and political leaders must choose what course of action to take.
In this Covid crisis, different countries have chosen different strategies to deal with it. Nobody knows yet for sure who has chosen the best strategy but the choice is always a political one. It is quite possible that we will have thrashed our economy for no appreciable gain. In a few months a lot of people may be looking at other countries like Sweden or Japan and wonder why we couldn’t have taken that kind of approach.
Those decisions are entirely political and political leaders will enjoy the praise or shoulder the blame depending on how it turns out in the end.

But the experts have to be the right experts too.

Kermit.de.frog · 13-04-2020 08:42PM

386 new cases, 1 new fatality in Singapore.

Be very disappointing for the authorities there. They had the disease under control.

What Username Guidelines · 13-04-2020 08:42PM

trapp wrote: »

How I wonder?

Spain do seem to be coming down more consistently and just from anecdotal evidence online, they seem to have a stronger lockdown than the Italians. Tho sending non essentials back to work today will probably mess that up.

ACitizenErased · 13-04-2020 08:42PM

Mad how the US is in lockdown, yet look at their air traffic. Insane.
https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1249770442312822784?s=20

caveat emptor · 13-04-2020 08:46PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

I agree with this. Responsibility for decisions must always rest with political leaders. It is true that expert advice must weigh very heavily when it comes to matters of public health but very often there is conflicting advice and political leaders must choose what course of action to take.
In this Covid crisis, different countries have chosen different strategies to deal with it. Nobody knows yet for sure who has chosen the best strategy but the choice is always a political one. It is quite possible that we will have thrashed our economy for no appreciable gain. In a few months a lot of people may be looking at other countries like Sweden or Japan and wonder why we couldn’t have taken that kind of approach.
Those decisions are entirely political and political leaders will enjoy the praise or shoulder the blame depending on how it turns out in the end.

Fear of failure is no excuse. It's why they get paid the big bucks are revered in society. To be clear in such an unprecedented situation mistakes will be made and that is actually ok but we better learn quick. Failing to learn is a failure.

jesus_thats_gre · 13-04-2020 08:46PM

froog wrote: »

Is there anything that shows this same data but relative to the population?

DevilsHaircut · 13-04-2020 08:46PM

Wales joins the growing list of countries using antibody therapy/convalescent plasma to treat patients.

'COVID19 convalescent plasma will help patients develop immunity as it ‘transfuses’ antibodies against the virus, helping the receiving individual fight infection.

Recovered patients are being invited by letter, if eligible, to donate blood to the scheme.

The programme will capture the benefit of plasma transfusions to improve COVID-19 patients’ speed of recovery and survival.'

https://gov.wales/wales-playing-leading-role-antibody-transfusion-treatment-coronavirus-patients

Strazdas · 13-04-2020 08:49PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

386 new cases, 1 new fatality in Singapore.

Be very disappointing for the authorities there. They had the disease under control.

Singapore is very densely populated (I think it's in the top two or three most densely populated countries in the world). Very difficult to control a pandemic in that setting.

BanditLuke · 13-04-2020 08:51PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

386 new cases, 1 new fatality in Singapore.

Be very disappointing for the authorities there. They had the disease under control.

Unfortunately this is the price of relaxing restrictions.

caveat emptor · 13-04-2020 08:51PM

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

Wales joins the growing list of countries using antibody therapy/convalescent plasma to treat patients.

'COVID19 convalescent plasma will help patients develop immunity as it ‘transfuses’ antibodies against the virus, helping the receiving individual fight infection.

Recovered patients are being invited by letter, if eligible, to donate blood to the scheme.

The programme will capture the benefit of plasma transfusions to improve COVID-19 patients’ speed of recovery and survival.'

https://gov.wales/wales-playing-leading-role-antibody-transfusion-treatment-coronavirus-patients

Not surprising but welcomed.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/blood-transfusions-from-survivors-best-way-to-fight-ebola/

the.red.baron · 13-04-2020 08:51PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

386 new cases, 1 new fatality in Singapore.

Be very disappointing for the authorities there. They had the disease under control.

You can't control it

DevilsHaircut · 13-04-2020 08:52PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Not surprising but welcomed.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/blood-transfusions-from-survivors-best-way-to-fight-ebola/

I know - there are many others doing it. I just wish we'd get a move on!

Peanut Butter Jelly · 13-04-2020 08:54PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

386 new cases, 1 new fatality in Singapore.

Be very disappointing for the authorities there. They had the disease under control.

I imagine come 3 weeks time, we'll be using this as an example of why restrictions may be further extended

coastwatch · 13-04-2020 08:54PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

I never thought I'd be saying that Italian reporting is far superior to Irish. While they are usually more bureaucratic they've managed to report extremely consistently. Put's our reporting in stark contrast.

Based on latest hpsc report. There is a 20% hospitalisation rate. Fairly high.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/COVID-19%20Epidemiology%20report%20for%20NPHET%2012.04.2020%20_v1_website.pdf

This is much higher than most regions in Italy and highlights our lack of testing. (our data set is skewed toward those already in a hospital setting)

http://www.salute.gov.it/imgs/C_17_notizie_4459_0_file.pdf

According to the WHO, about 20% of people with Covid 19 will require hospital treatment so the Irish statistics are typical with the rest of the world

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/coronavirus-what-happens-to-people-s-lungs-if-they-get-covid-19-1.4211714

Stheno · 13-04-2020 08:58PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

I never thought I'd be saying that Italian reporting is far superior to Irish. While they are usually more bureaucratic they've managed to report extremely consistently. Put's our reporting in stark contrast.

Based on latest hpsc report. There is a 20% hospitalisation rate. Fairly high.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/COVID-19%20Epidemiology%20report%20for%20NPHET%2012.04.2020%20_v1_website.pdf

This is much higher than most regions in Italy and highlights our lack of testing. (our data set is skewed toward those already in a hospital setting)

http://www.salute.gov.it/imgs/C_17_notizie_4459_0_file.pdf

I thought the average worldwide was 80% mold and 20% hospitalised with up to 5% needing critical care?

Wombatman · 13-04-2020 08:58PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

I never thought I'd be saying that Italian reporting is far superior to Irish. While they are usually more bureaucratic they've managed to report extremely consistently. Put's our reporting in stark contrast.

Based on latest hpsc report. There is a 20% hospitalisation rate. Fairly high.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/COVID-19%20Epidemiology%20report%20for%20NPHET%2012.04.2020%20_v1_website.pdf

This is much higher than most regions in Italy and highlights our lack of testing. (our data set is skewed toward those already in a hospital setting)

http://www.salute.gov.it/imgs/C_17_notizie_4459_0_file.pdf

On the Gov.ie website every day.

LOOK HERE
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/466968-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-monday-13-a/#hospitalised-cases-by-age-group

This resource has been excellent all the way through.
https://www.gov.ie/en/news/7e0924-latest-updates-on-covid-19-coronavirus/

Ficheall · 13-04-2020 08:59PM

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Is there anything that shows this same data but relative to the population?

Relative to population size, we're worse on that graph than France, Italy and Spain, but better than the US, China, and Iran.

spookwoman · 13-04-2020 08:59PM

India is not looking good

quartz1 · 13-04-2020 09:01PM

167 People have died in Nursing Homes. I cant understand how these people never made it to ICU. Are the survival prospects really that poor for ill elderly people . I post this as a question not an accusation. It's really sad.

Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

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