Masks

Thingymebob · 12-04-2020 12:05PM

Yes: surgical

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

What are reusable masks?

My understanding is
Some masks are single use, like the ones you often see in medical settings (use then dispose).

Others are multiple use due to their manufacture. The length of time varies.

Then there’s the masks with replaceable filters etc.

xhomelezz · 12-04-2020 12:27PM

Yes: valved

Looks like we'll get always people trying to exploit this situation and try to sell useless things, found another few ads on ebay, 10 bucks each. Two more shots of the masks I got. Unfortunately seller not available anymore. Whoever it was did a good job, masks came from Waterford, guess demand was too high, cuz they offered collection as well.

xhomelezz · 12-04-2020 12:31PM

Yes: valved

Def avoid these

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/153893936873
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/153892883569
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/153892742936
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/153893937571

UrbanFret · 12-04-2020 01:08PM

Yes: homemade

gozunda wrote: »

Does the spray list the active ingredient(s)?

No not on the bottle. I had a peep at the MSDS and all I see is "a synergistic blend of quaternary ammonium compounds, amine based structure " what that means to the man in the street I don't know.

UrbanFret · 12-04-2020 01:36PM

Yes: homemade

Thingymebob wrote: »

@urbanfret

Fenland haven’t been trading under Fenland Labs since 2016. They’re using the name micronclean. The fire-power.co.uk website isn’t active. I’d wonder where the Fire Service sourced the products.

Vanguard fire and rescue ireland. I'd imagine. Microclean now have a similar product called cleanguard 3 and 4. We also mix our own disinfectants using a product called klorkleen. It's in tablet form. We put 2 tablets into knapsack sprayer and add water.

saneman · 12-04-2020 02:33PM

Yes: surgical

UrbanFret wrote: »

No not on the bottle. I had a peep at the MSDS and all I see is "a synergistic blend of quaternary ammonium compounds, amine based structure " what that means to the man in the street I don't know.

I would question its use on masks, it certainly isn't intended for that specific purpose (clothing, gloves, boots from what I understand). QACs are used in surface cleaners and have virucidal properties (tested against avian flu, see 1. below) but have also been found to affect airways/lung function (2. below).

1. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330930334_Virucidal_Efficacy_of_a_Quaternary_Ammonium_Compound_with_Food_Additive-Grade_Calcium_Hydroxide_Toward_Avian_Influenza_Virus_and_Newcastle_Disease_Virus_on_Abiotic_Carriers

2. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51906058_Airway_Effects_of_Inhaled_Quaternary_Ammonium_Compounds_in_Mice

As you're wearing the mask for a full shift I would at least change to paper bags for mask storage. They're breathable to facilitate drying (unlike ziploc-type freezer bags), can easily be marked with a name/date, the openings can be folded down twice and stapled closed when storing the mask, the bag discarded after opening and a new bag used for the next time a mask is stored.

You have 5 masks per box so alternating between them will give at least a 5-day turnaround for each mask (or 4 if holding one aside as a spare).

Not trying to ruffle any feathers her I hope you understand, there's a flurry of activity globally regarding the reuse of PPE and so much we don't know specifically regarding this virus. I'm working in the PPE supply industry for the last 10+ years and have had to amend/add to my own knowledge in the last few weeks/months.

greasepalm · 12-04-2020 02:47PM

Yes: other

Looked at those ebay masks as someone wants to make money,i bought one from my local small store for 5 euro and needs a wash before first use

caveat emptor · 12-04-2020 04:04PM

Yes: to protect others

https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1249296844712218624?s=21

UrbanFret · 12-04-2020 04:21PM

Yes: homemade

saneman wrote: »

I would question its use on masks, it certainly isn't intended for that specific purpose (clothing, gloves, boots from what I understand). QACs are used in surface cleaners and have virucidal properties (tested against avian flu, see 1. below) but have also been found to affect airways/lung function (2. below).

1. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330930334_Virucidal_Efficacy_of_a_Quaternary_Ammonium_Compound_with_Food_Additive-Grade_Calcium_Hydroxide_Toward_Avian_Influenza_Virus_and_Newcastle_Disease_Virus_on_Abiotic_Carriers

2. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51906058_Airway_Effects_of_Inhaled_Quaternary_Ammonium_Compounds_in_Mice

As you're wearing the mask for a full shift I would at least change to paper bags for mask storage. They're breathable to facilitate drying (unlike ziploc-type freezer bags), can easily be marked with a name/date, the openings can be folded down twice and stapled closed when storing the mask, the bag discarded after opening and a new bag used for the next time a mask is stored.

You have 5 masks per box so alternating between them will give at least a 5-day turnaround for each mask (or 4 if holding one aside as a spare).

Not trying to ruffle any feathers her I hope you understand, there's a flurry of activity globally regarding the reuse of PPE and so much we don't know specifically regarding this virus. I'm working in the PPE supply industry for the last 10+ years and have had to amend/add to my own knowledge in the last few weeks/months.

Thanks for that. Just for clarity we are only spraying the outside of the respirator. Good point ref the paper bag, certainty worth considering.

S.M.B. · 12-04-2020 04:55PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1249296844712218624?s=21

I like the visualisation of the two people wearing masks in that thread.

s7ryf3925pivug · 12-04-2020 05:16PM

Yes: other

Well I masked up today at the supermarket. It was grand really. 3m ffp3 mask. I could smell things in a couple of places so I suspect the seal was imperfect. The masks with adjustable straps would let you tighten it more I guess. It constricted on inhalation though which I guess was a good sign. I have a couple of jsb ones I have found fit well before as well.

Anyway no abuse or funny looks. Maybe some people were a bit overly cautious. I have a bit of a resting i-will-kill-you face which I try to compensate for by affecting a friendly demeanour but the mask probably didn't help that. I saw two others wearing similar types of masks also, which was noteworthy as I've only seen a couple of people in masks before and only in the surgical ones.

greasepalm · 12-04-2020 05:25PM

Yes: other

Maybe Micheal Jackson was right in wearing a mask many years ago ?

+ must have known bad things to come with his song
Beat It

Bit cynical · 12-04-2020 05:59PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1249296844712218624?s=21

Good reply to that tweet:
https://twitter.com/nntalebhttps://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1249302327158333442?s=20/status/1249302327158333442?s=20

ShineOn7 · 12-04-2020 06:21PM

Yes: surgical

Bit cynical wrote: »

Good reply to that tweet:
https://twitter.com/nntalebhttps://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1249302327158333442?s=20/status/1249302327158333442?s=20

Getting a "Sorry, that page doesn’t exist" to that link

What did it say?

ShineOn7 · 12-04-2020 06:34PM

Yes: surgical

Thoughts on these for a "wear once then bin" use? (if put on and taken off correctly of course)

https://www.themobilityshop.ie/surgical-masks.html

Or this https://www.themobilityshop.ie/face-mask-with-valve.html

And for the daring https://www.themobilityshop.ie/protective-face-shields.html

saneman · 12-04-2020 07:18PM

Yes: surgical

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Thoughts on these for a "wear once then bin" use? (if put on and taken off correctly of course)

https://www.themobilityshop.ie/surgical-masks.html

Or this https://www.themobilityshop.ie/face-mask-with-valve.html

And for the daring https://www.themobilityshop.ie/protective-face-shields.html

I'd pick the valved P2 mask, best for protecting the wearer. I'd also consider reuse, viable option if care is taken. Get 2 or more and alternate between them (e.g. if using for supermarket visits every few days).

Jim_Hodge · 12-04-2020 07:21PM

Yes: homemade

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Thoughts on these for a "wear once then bin" use? (if put on and taken off correctly of course)

https://www.themobilityshop.ie/surgical-masks.html

Or this https://www.themobilityshop.ie/face-mask-with-valve.html

And for the daring https://www.themobilityshop.ie/protective-face-shields.html

Grand, but boy do they know how to charge!

S.M.B. · 12-04-2020 07:57PM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Thoughts on these for a "wear once then bin" use? (if put on and taken off correctly of course)

https://www.themobilityshop.ie/surgical-masks.html

Or this https://www.themobilityshop.ie/face-mask-with-valve.html

And for the daring https://www.themobilityshop.ie/protective-face-shields.html

Why are these "wear once and bin" masks?

I have to say, I find this all very confusing. For someone who's been very engaged in this whole things for months I've still no idea what to do regarding masks.

Spring Celebrator · 12-04-2020 09:28PM

Yes: valved

S.M.B. wrote: »

Why are these "wear once and bin" masks?

I have to say, I find this all very confusing. For someone who's been very engaged in this whole things for months I've still no idea what to do regarding masks.

Surgical mask get wet and after that are not efective. Masks with filters (pp2,pp3) only last few hours. Home made masks (3 layers cloth) are less efective in protecting who evers wears them but are washable. They protect the people around you (60-80%) so if everyone would wear them, that would greatly reduce spreading.

expectationlost · 12-04-2020 09:28PM

should we have a disposable glove thread too, I've worn gloves a couple of times doing a supermarket shop and couple of times not while doing a small shop, wearing gloves is a visual reminder not to touch my face or nose.

S.M.B. · 12-04-2020 09:43PM

Spring Celebrator wrote: »

Surgical mask get wet and after that are not efective. Masks with filters (pp2,pp3) only last few hours. Home made masks (3 layers cloth) are less efective in protecting who evers wears them but are washable. They protect the people around you (60-80%) so if everyone would wear them, that would greatly reduce spreading.

What's the difference between the 3 layer surgical mask in the first link above compared to a DIY one made at home that is considered less effective but reusable? Is it made from a different material that makes it more effective but unwashable? It doesn't mention what exactly it's made from. Obviously in a normal surgical setting they would be disposed of but does that mean they instantly lose their ability once washed?

Sorry for all the questions but as I said I find the whole situation very confusing.

Bit cynical · 12-04-2020 10:11PM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Getting a "Sorry, that page doesn’t exist" to that link

What did it say?

In retrospect it was not a good response so that is for the best.

railer201 · 12-04-2020 10:16PM

Yes: valved

S.M.B. wrote: »

What's the difference between the 3 layer surgical mask in the first link above compared to a DIY one made at home that is considered less effective but reusable? Is it made from a different material that makes it more effective but unwashable? It doesn't mention what exactly it's made from. Obviously in a normal surgical setting they would be disposed of but does that mean they instantly lose their ability once washed?

Sorry for all the questions but as I said I find the whole situation very confusing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/07/answers-your-diy-face-mask-questions-including-what-material-you-should-use/?arc404=true

Some answers here, the chart shows the effectiveness of surgical masks compared to the DIY ones.

Best to make a decision and forge ahead and research it later on as at least then you have some protection.

The bottom line is some mask is better than none at all.

saneman · 12-04-2020 10:48PM

Yes: surgical

S.M.B. wrote: »

What's the difference between the 3 layer surgical mask in the first link above compared to a DIY one made at home that is considered less effective but reusable? Is it made from a different material that makes it more effective but unwashable? It doesn't mention what exactly it's made from. Obviously in a normal surgical setting they would be disposed of but does that mean they instantly lose their ability once washed?

Sorry for all the questions but as I said I find the whole situation very confusing.

Filtering face masks and surgical/medical masks are typically composed of layers of nonwoven materials which themselves will capture particles from the air in the fibres. Both have a mid layer (1-ply in surgical and 2-ply in facemasks), usually a non woven polypropylene, into which electrically charged fibers or granules are embedded giving it a static charge. This attracts particles from the airflow and greatly enhances filtering efficiency as the "holes" in these materials are often bigger than the particles they're capturing.

The reason why alcohol-type sprays/liquids shouldn't be used on the above masks is that the alcohol will negate this electrostatic effect. This could be true for other cleaning liquids/sprays as well as the possibility that damage could be done to the filtering materials themselves (eg. if the outer layers are made of paper-like material).

S.M.B. · 12-04-2020 11:25PM

Thanks, had stumbled across something similar but not as detailed. Still trying to figure out if washing a mask with "layers of nonwoven materials which themselves will capture particles from the air in the fibres" would be more beneficial than DIY masks. Have option of machine washing or steam cleaning.

It basically seems silly to throw away some surgical masks I use after a trip to the shops to then replace my limited supply with DIY versions which look the exact same but are made out of cotton sheets instead.

Kivaro · 13-04-2020 09:38AM

Yes: valved

Every single person in Spain that was allowed to resume work today has to wear a mask. It is compulsory.
And they are all being supplied with these masks.

Wouldn't it be an idea for the Irish government to start sending masks to Irish homes now? Otherwise you will see the Irish people returning to work with all different types of undergarments cut up in the shape of a mask. That may, or may not be a pretty sight.

Wibbs · 13-04-2020 09:52AM

Yes: other

Kivaro wrote: »

Every single person in Spain that was allowed to resume work today has to wear a mask. It is compulsory.
And they are all being supplied with these masks.

Quite right too.

Wouldn't it be an idea for the Irish government to start sending masks to Irish homes now?

Not going to happen any time soon K. 1) the budget and organisation to do that and more 2) doing so they would have to admit their mistake on their pretty hardline "masks are useless" stance, and your HSE/high up civil service types will almost never admit a mistake(usually only after they retire, or new blood comes in). So I suspect what will happen is well, nothing, until the WHO or the ECDC take the "blame" for them and go with masks as another risk reducing tactic. Then the HSE/high up civil service types can save face.

expectationlost · 13-04-2020 10:34AM

Kivaro wrote: »

Every single person in Spain that was allowed to resume work today has to wear a mask. It is compulsory.
And they are all being supplied with these masks.

Wouldn't it be an idea for the Irish government to start sending masks to Irish homes now? Otherwise you will see the Irish people returning to work with all different types of undergarments cut up in the shape of a mask. That may, or may not be a pretty sight.

what masks?!

ShineOn7 · 13-04-2020 10:39AM

Yes: surgical

Kivaro wrote: »

Every single person in Spain that was allowed to resume work today has to wear a mask. It is compulsory.
And they are all being supplied with these masks.

And hopefully someone from their health service is showing them how to put them on and take them off properly. Otherwise they're useless

otnomart · 13-04-2020 10:40AM

expectationlost wrote: »

what masks?!

"The type of mask the government is talking about is not the surgical mask typically used by health staff, nor the filter mask, which is necessary for those who deal with the sick. Rather, it is a new kind of hygienic or barrier mask, classed by the Spanish Standardization Association with the code UNE 0064-1 for adults, and UNE 0064-2 for children. Health Minister Salvador Illa announced on Friday that these masks will be distributed on public transport from Monday."
Source: https://english.elpais.com/economy_and_business/2020-04-12/wash-clothes-at-60c-and-stay-two-meters-apart-the-spanish-governments-guide-for-returning-workers.html

Masks

Comments