Brexit discussion thread XII (Please read OP before posting)

Quin_Dub · 10-04-2020 11:31AM

Deleted User wrote: »

If they left the Euro, their replacement currencies would probably devalue by a large percentage, thus making them cheap holiday destinations.

Leaving the Euro will help their tourists industries.

And cripple every other one.

Greece for example imports nearly 4 times as much as it exports - €60B vs. €17B

10-04-2020 11:42AM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

And cripple every other one.

Greece for example imports nearly 4 times as much as it exports - €60B vs. €17B

I was responding to the quote

I would be clinging to the EU for dear life. In the long term, they will want to rebuild their tourist industries.

Enzokk · 10-04-2020 11:42AM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

And cripple every other one.

Greece for example imports nearly 4 times as much as it exports - €60B vs. €17B

For industries that are 10%-15% of GDP it seems like a small silver lining to going back to your own currency and devaluing it. Add to that if you increase the importance of tourism to your country and another pandemic hits you are screwed once more and the cycle repeats itself. I don't see how that is sustainable at all.

Christy42 · 10-04-2020 11:44AM

Deleted User wrote: »

If they left the Euro, their replacement currencies would probably devalue by a large percentage, thus making them cheap holiday destinations.

Leaving the Euro will help their tourists industries.

Only because not enough people would want the replacement currency enough to bring up the value. If it helped it enough it would no longer be so cheap.

Plus you are automatically putting people on a lower wage in terms of euros so stuff like holidays for them will instantly become more expensive because they are not taking in much in euro terms themselves (and if they were it wouldn't be cheap).

Professor Moriarty · 10-04-2020 11:45AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I was responding to the quote

Yes, but it was you who switched the discussion from EU to Euro.

10-04-2020 12:42PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Yes, but it was you who switched the discussion from EU to Euro.

The original "crisis" was about the Euro!

Professor Moriarty · 10-04-2020 12:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The original "crisis" was about the Euro!

Ah, I meant Coronavirus crisis, Crossed wires!

CelticRambler · 10-04-2020 01:43PM

Enzokk wrote: »

Secondly, and related somewhat to the first point, they have shut down parliament for almost a month at a time of crises where questions should be asked on the response of the government. But somehow they have gotten away with going into recess early and also not recalling parliament in a time of crises. It amazes me that more is not made of this and if I were an EU immigrant in the UK I would be afraid of what this government will do once Brexit happens and how much they will try to escape scrutiny.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Ms Patel instead said she would only appear “towards the end of the month”.

This at a time when police have been given temporary powers to enforce the lockdown that's preventing thousands of deaths.

As usual, it's a variation of what's happening in the US. While Trump holds his daily campaign rally in the White House, his administration carries out its hardest of hard-right "reforms" in several different areas - cleansing the country of migrants, clamping down on abortion services, scrapping environmental protection, and - of course - going all out to disenfranchise non-Right-leaning voters.

And yet there are still plenty of Europeans who are quite prepared to chase the American Dream. There'll be just as many Africans, Asians and Middle-Easterns chasing the British Dream regardless of what hurdles and population control measures Johnson&Co. introduce.

BonnieSituation · 10-04-2020 03:59PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If they left the Euro, their replacement currencies would probably devalue by a large percentage, thus making them cheap holiday destinations.

Leaving the Euro will help their tourists industries.

Tourism from Brits as a panacea? I'm sure they're looking at that with all the seriousness that it deserves. Jesus.

johnnyskeleton · 10-04-2020 04:19PM

Mod note:

Again, this thread is about Brexit. Other aspects of the EU can be discussed in another thread if people have any interest in so doing

AllForIt · 11-04-2020 10:37PM

declanflynn wrote: »

Germany now sending ventilators to the UK, that will really stick in the throat of brexiteers with the coronavirus

Why?

Headshot · 11-04-2020 10:40PM

AllForIt wrote: »

Why?

taking back control blah blah

We dont have to rely on EU blah blah

ballsymchugh · 11-04-2020 11:06PM

Headshot wrote: »

taking back control blah blah

We dont have to rely on EU blah blah

they managed to circumvent the EU issue by asking for the ventilators through NATO via the MoD.
if the ministry of health asked, then it would probably have to have gone through the EU.

AllForIt · 11-04-2020 11:10PM

Headshot wrote: »

taking back control blah blah

We dont have to rely on EU blah blah

Well I wasn't asking you but I'll respond anyway.

We dont have to rely on EU blah blah

This doesn't make any sense. Was the UK not the EU when it was a member of it?

Now that the UK is not part of the EU, Germany sent them the ventilators anyway.

So the point seems to be an own goal.

Enzokk · 12-04-2020 06:13AM

AllForIt wrote: »

Well I wasn't asking you but I'll respond anyway.

This doesn't make any sense. Was the UK not the EU when it was a member of it?

Now that the UK is not part of the EU, Germany sent them the ventilators anyway.

So the point seems to be an own goal.

You obviously don't know the story or you know the context and you are looking to stir the pot. The UK was too important to join a EU scheme, but it turns out they really needed that scheme and in the end had to accept a free handout from Germany to try and catch up with their own stupidity. A simple case of ideology over sense really.

Professor Moriarty · 12-04-2020 08:51AM

AllForIt wrote: »

Well I wasn't asking you but I'll respond anyway.

This doesn't make any sense. Was the UK not the EU when it was a member of it?

Now that the UK is not part of the EU, Germany sent them the ventilators anyway.

So the point seems to be an own goal.

You obviously missed it. As usual, Tory blind ideology, incompetence and lies caused unnecessary coronavirus deaths

serfboard · 12-04-2020 01:31PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

You obviously missed it. As usual, Tory blind ideology, incompetence and lies caused unnecessary coronavirus deaths

In fairness, blind ideology causing unnecessary deaths is not a uniquely Tory, or even British, thing. Human beings will often put tribe before self, because we are hard-wired to do so.

Professor Moriarty · 12-04-2020 01:42PM

serfboard wrote: »

In fairness, blind ideology causing unnecessary deaths is not a uniquely Tory, or even British, thing. Human beings will often put tribe before self, because we are hard-wired to do so.

Not as wilfully as this though. Maybe Trump but can't think of very many other western governments as incompetent and disingenuous in this crisis. Certainly none whose failures have been so ideologically driven.

serfboard · 12-04-2020 02:12PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Not as wilfully as this though. Maybe Trump but can't think of very many other western governments as incompetent and disingenuous in this crisis. Certainly none whose failures have been so ideologically driven.

The important bit, I think. On the more general point, tribalism has led to many wars and famines, including our own, so I'm never surprised when I see it breaking out.

Tell me how · 12-04-2020 04:10PM

AllForIt wrote: »

Why?

Remember the 'they need us more than we need them' line?

Patently not.

ArmaniJeanss · 12-04-2020 04:26PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Remember the 'they need us more than we need them' line?

Patently not.

But the ventilators are just a sign of the superiority of the UKs position surely?
So desperate are the Germans (and their car manufacturers) to remain on good terms with the UK that they are giving away their excess ventilators as a sign of good faith.
They need us more than we need them.
etc.

ancapailldorcha · 12-04-2020 06:17PM

The Irish famine is not a suitable topic for this thread. Posts deleted.

Panrich · 13-04-2020 07:16AM

Johnson was offering big thanks to certain individuals after being released from hospital and mentioned ‘Luis from Portugal’ as one of the nurses who was instrumental in ensuring that he recovered from the Coronavirus.

Will this brush with death be a defining moment for Johnson where he now sees the merit in all European nations working closely together and therefore we may see a different tone to the negotiations from here or will Luis be looking for a new job back in Portugal in 2021?

54and56 · 13-04-2020 07:31AM

Panrich wrote: »

Johnson was offering big thanks to certain individuals after being released from hospital and mentioned ‘Luis from Portugal’ as one of the nurses who was instrumental in ensuring that he recovered from the Coronavirus.

Will this brush with death be a defining moment for Johnson where he now sees the merit in all European nations working closely together and therefore we may see a different tone to the negotiations from here or will Luis be looking for a new job back in Portugal in 2021?

The pure irony of it https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-the-nurses-praised-by-pm-for-standing-at-my-bedside-for-48-hours-11972467

Jenny from New Zealand and Luis from Portugal.

listermint · 13-04-2020 07:33AM

Panrich wrote: »

Johnson was offering big thanks to certain individuals after being released from hospital and mentioned ‘Luis from Portugal’ as one of the nurses who was instrumental in ensuring that he recovered from the Coronavirus.

Will this brush with death be a defining moment for Johnson where he now sees the merit in all European nations working closely together and therefore we may see a different tone to the negotiations from here or will Luis be looking for a new job back in Portugal in 2021?

Not a hope. People that are designed like this man rarely change. Leopards spots etc. He will take advantage of any situation for personal gain until he toddles of this mortal coil.

McGiver · 13-04-2020 08:15AM

Panrich wrote: »

Johnson was offering big thanks to certain individuals after being released from hospital and mentioned ‘Luis from Portugal’ as one of the nurses who was instrumental in ensuring that he recovered from the Coronavirus.

Will this brush with death be a defining moment for Johnson where he now sees the merit in all European nations working closely together and therefore we may see a different tone to the negotiations from here or will Luis be looking for a new job back in Portugal in 2021?

No. He'll double down.

declanflynn · 13-04-2020 08:25AM

Panrich wrote: »

Johnson was offering big thanks to certain individuals after being released from hospital and mentioned ‘Luis from Portugal’ as one of the nurses who was instrumental in ensuring that he recovered from the Coronavirus.

Will this brush with death be a defining moment for Johnson where he now sees the merit in all European nations working closely together and therefore we may see a different tone to the negotiations from here or will Luis be looking for a new job back in Portugal in 2021?

It might be, he could have just mentioned their names but he seemed to make a point of where both of them are from and remember hes a 'foreigner' himself and deep down isn't a paid up member of the brexiteer wing of his party

Tell me how · 13-04-2020 02:25PM

Panrich wrote: »

Johnson was offering big thanks to certain individuals after being released from hospital and mentioned ‘Luis from Portugal’ as one of the nurses who was instrumental in ensuring that he recovered from the Coronavirus.

Will this brush with death be a defining moment for Johnson where he now sees the merit in all European nations working closely together and therefore we may see a different tone to the negotiations from here or will Luis be looking for a new job back in Portugal in 2021?

It'll be defining in the sense that the Conservatives will probably use this to grant some sort of dispensation to members of various medical fields which they will sing about from the roof tops thus absolving themselves for inaction in early March and to whitewash the fact that they have instigated austerity measures over the last 10 years.

The media will be entirely complicit in this and will publish any stories about now supporting the NHS like they have just appointed a private nurse to care for every household in Britain.

Enzokk · 13-04-2020 04:50PM

Some new Brexit news, talks will continue again on Wednesday between Barnier and Frost, via video link.

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1249725588962709507?s=20

That is a thread, I will copy the rest of the tweets as it is really only an update of where we are and that the heat will not be turned up now due to the Coronavirus crises all nations are dealing with right now.

3/ But the logistics have been naturally frustrating: officials trying to work from home (kids, spouses), the absence of developing personal rapport with opposite numbers, the difficulty of keeping member states informed, who in turn need to inform ministers + parliaments

4/ Officials also on both sides coming down with the virus...

5/ So far, there's been no appetite on the EU side - apart from a European People's Party (EPP) statement, which is viewed as having backfired - to start pushing for the UK to seek an extension to the transition period

6/ View in capitals is that there's no point in starting a row on that at this time, especially when the UK and most other EU countries, are consumed by the pandemic.

7/ But a decision is needed before July 1. Also, as
@GeorginaEWright
has pointed out, the terms and conditions of any extension will have to be agreed between the Barnier Task Force and the UK side, and among member states BEFORE July 1. ie, money, the EU's long term budget, CAP

8/ Member states are also frustrated that the UK has insisted its draft text not be shared it them. Instead the Commission can only share its "analysis" with member states. This is also slowing things up.

9/ The WA says any extension to the transition must be agreed by both sides through the Joint Committee. But it is silent on who has to mention it first. Politically, the EU would be loathe to request the UK to seek an extension, so the belief is it's up to Michael Gove

10/ As for the talks so far, there appears to be convergence on both sets of texts on an FTA for goods, aviation, road haulage, civil-nuclear cooperation; but on the big difficult issues - level-playing field, governance, fisheries - no progress. As expected.

ArthurDayne · 13-04-2020 07:06PM

Panrich wrote: »

Johnson was offering big thanks to certain individuals after being released from hospital and mentioned ‘Luis from Portugal’ as one of the nurses who was instrumental in ensuring that he recovered from the Coronavirus.

Will this brush with death be a defining moment for Johnson where he now sees the merit in all European nations working closely together and therefore we may see a different tone to the negotiations from here or will Luis be looking for a new job back in Portugal in 2021?

If I’m being honest, I don’t think Johnson ever genuinely didn’t see the merit in it. He is not a dyed-in-the-wool Brexiteer — simply someone who has oscillated from pro-EU sentiments to anti-EU sentiments over the years; the direction of oscillation often seeming to depend on who his audience was or which view appeared better for his own career advancement at a given time.

As it so happened, anti-EU rhetoric and — with it — anti free movement rhetoric was what got him into power. Sadly therefore, I don’t see him changing tack unless a moment comes where his stance threatens his position as leader. In other words, he will stick with whatever keeps him popular . . . but if public opinion were to change, Johnson would probably follow.

Brexit discussion thread XII (Please read OP before posting)

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