Schools closed until undetermined date - was March 29th

spurious · 08-04-2020 09:36PM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Thread being weird for anyone else? Musing posts on phone

Deleted a few earlier today from our re-reg troll friend LC2020, but nothing recently. I see the last post before yours was only posted at 19.52. I thought I saw some others since then.

mirrorwall14 · 08-04-2020 09:39PM

spurious wrote: »

Deleted a few earlier today from our re-reg troll friend LC2020, but nothing recently. I see the last post before yours was only posted at 19.52. I thought I saw some others since then.

Yeah it was coming up as my most recent thread I’m subscribed to but then there was no recent post so I wasn’t confused. It has happened the odd time before and usually resolves itself

Rosita · 09-04-2020 06:35AM

Listening to Morning Ireland just now I'd say we can forget any notion of school during May or state exams in June. It is expected that the current restrictions will go on into June at least.

Like I already said if they are making a significant announcement this week logically it can only mean some level of cancellation as that's the only long-term decision they can stand over. Unfortunately it will not really bring certainty either as who knows what the situation will be in August? But I'd say that certainty is a luxury in the current environment.

heldel00 · 09-04-2020 07:16AM

There are primary teachers arguing about being asked to invigilate state exams on another site I follow. (To spread students out over a greater number of test centres and maintain social distancing)
Someone asked which circular/ article was this mentioned in and was told that it hasn't and the discussion is purely hypothetical.
So they are actually over there fighting about a makey-uppy idea. Bloody ridiculous!

scrubs33 · 09-04-2020 07:57AM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/state-exams-may-be-delayed-until-late-summer-or-autumn-1.4224451
Not sure if the link will work or not but the IT is going with late summer or early autumn for the exams according to a senior source

Bobtheman · 09-04-2020 08:01AM

scrubs33 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/state-exams-may-be-delayed-until-late-summer-or-autumn-1.4224451
Not sure if the link will work or not but the IT is going with late summer or early autumn for the exams according to a senior source

Told you. By hook or by crook was pure bull**** for June

Rosita · 09-04-2020 08:05AM

Bobtheman wrote: »

Told you. By hook or by crook was pure bull**** for June

I suppose perversely the "by hook or by crook" phrase was the real giveaway that they wouldn't happen in June.

Rosita · 09-04-2020 08:11AM

heldel00 wrote: »

There are primary teachers arguing about being asked to invigilate state exams on another site I follow. (To spread students out over a greater number of test centres and maintain social distancing)
Someone asked which circular/ article was this mentioned in and was told that it hasn't and the discussion is purely hypothetical.
So they are actually over there fighting about a makey-uppy idea. Bloody ridiculous!

I guarantee you that there are still teachers who will scratch their heads wondering if we'll be back on the 20th April. In the same way that there are people convinced that this has already peaked in Ireland even though that American source has been utterly discredited. In the same way that there are people who will tell you that admissions to ICUs has slowed (which they have to since ICUs are pretty much full so they can't keep taking admissions at the same rate) and read positive signs into this as if they are talking about a spike in the sale of cream crackers. Reality can be a slippery customer.

TheValeyard · 09-04-2020 08:11AM

Let's all just wait and see what the announcement or plan be.

morebabies · 09-04-2020 08:12AM

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/coronavirus-rolling-lockdown-ireland-covid19-21837430.amp

If rolling restrictions will be the new normal, and I totally understand why, I'm thinking of moving to homeschooling my kids full time. I'm a stay at home mom anyway, our whole family is asthmatic / prone to chest infections... I need to do more research about doing the Leaving Cert from home, but I think I'd rather opt for this than the anxiety and instability I'd associate with a return to school and possible future shutdowns.
What do others think?

khalessi · 09-04-2020 08:13AM

I think they had every intention of holding them in June when that was said but then the logistics came into play of how to keep everyone safe, especially the people doing or monitoring exams who are immunocompromised while maintaining exam protocols.

The DOE as well as everyone else realise the importance of this and are trying to get it right but no matter what they do they will be wrong

Rosita · 09-04-2020 08:24AM

khalessi wrote: »

I think they had every intention of holding them in June when that was said but then the logistics came into play of how to keep everyone safe, especially the people doing or monitoring exams who are immunocompromised while maintaining exam protocols.

The DOE as well as everyone else realise the importance of this and are trying to get it right but no matter what they do they will be wrong

I'm not sure that no matter what they do they will be wrong. The problem they might face is if the situation is no better numbers-wise in August/September and they have to hold the exams in the exact same scenario. I still think there was every possibility of holding the LC in June if the JC was cancelled.

As I have said here, if Dunne Stores or Tesco can have a hundred people in a shop it's not clear why a school couldn't do likewise with a multitude of rooms available and unlike the shops all staff associated with the state exams would be dedicated to ensuring protocols were adhered to anyway and wouldn't have a multitude of other tasks.

At one level its the understandable and sensible decision but at another level it simply defers the discomfort. It might well be that there was a concern that the exams going ahead would prematurely signal a return to normality to the broader public.

It is not inevitable that they will be wrong but time will tell if they were right and that will be judged on what their alternative dates are and what becomes of project work etc.

km79 · 09-04-2020 08:27AM

I really really hope they are working on a contingency involving no LC for college entry
Eventually they will need to make a decision
There is no knowing if it will even be possible to hold them July/aug
Will have the same uncertainty all summer for the students then .
It will soon be time for them to face the new reality of the current situation

khalessi · 09-04-2020 08:29AM

Rosita wrote: »

I'm not sure that no matter what they do they will be wrong. The problem they might face is if the situation is no better numbers-wise in August/September and they have to hold the exams in the exact same scenario. I still think there was every possibility of holding the LC in June if the JC was cancelled.

As I have said here, if Dunne Stores or Tesco can have a hundred people in a shop it's not clear why a school couldn't do likewise with a multitude of rooms available and unlike the shops all staff associated with the state exams would be dedicated to ensuring protocols were adhered to anyway and wouldn't have a multitude of other tasks.

At one level its the understandable and sensible decision but at another level it simply defers the discomfort. It might well be that there was a concern that the exams going ahead that it would prematurely signal a return to normality to the broader public.

It is not inevitable that they will be wrong but time will tell if they were right and that will be judged on what their alternative dates are and what becomes of project work etc.

People do shopping and leave. These kids will be sitting in a hall for upto 3 hours and would you as the invigilator or student feel good if someone else in the room was couging considering the droplet spread could be up to 28 feet? I know I would be very nervous especially if I had some sort of immunocomprised illness.

The questions you are putting above are exactly the questions also going through the heads of those trying to come up with a fair solution.

Purefrank128 · 09-04-2020 08:31AM

So normally the State exams are held in June and marked in July, mostly by active teachers on Sunmer holidays. If the exams are held in August, who will mark them?

km79 · 09-04-2020 08:32AM

khalessi wrote: »

People do shopping and leave. These kids will be sitting in a hall for upto 3 hours and would you as the invigilator or student feel good if someone else in the room was couging considering the droplet spread could be up to 28 feet? I know I would be very nervous especially if I had some sort of immunocomprised illness.

The questions you are putting above are exactly the questions also going through the heads of those trying to come up with a fair solution.

Was just going to say the same thing
Who in their right mind would want to invigilate ......but then we may have no choice ........
When would corrections be done ? And by whom ..........

Rosita · 09-04-2020 08:34AM

km79 wrote: »

I really really hope they are working on a contingency involving no LC for college entry
Eventually they will need to make a decision
There is no knowing if it will even be possible to hold them July/aug
Will have the same uncertainty all summer for the students then .
It will soon be time for them to face the new reality of the current situation

Dead right. A deferral of the LC just elongates the uncertainty rather than eliminating it.

khalessi · 09-04-2020 08:36AM

If they were concerned primarily with college entru they could just do English adn MAths as according to AIne Hyland these two subjects give the best idea of success at college level, but not all kids go to college.

They could try a reduced LC, core subjects and one other maybe

Mardy Bum · 09-04-2020 08:45AM

khalessi wrote: »

If they were concerned primarily with college entru they could just do English adn MAths as according to AIne Hyland these two subjects give the best idea of success at college level, but not all kids go to college.

They could try a reduced LC, core subjects and one other maybe

Because the L.C has become a points game you have students doing OL in one if not both of these so they don't have to work hard or as parents like to say "manage their time". Those same parents would be the ones to sue the state if Johnny gets less points because he did OL and obviously loses out on his course.

km79 · 09-04-2020 08:45AM

khalessi wrote: »

If they were concerned primarily with college entru they could just do English adn MAths as according to AIne Hyland these two subjects give the best idea of success at college level, but not all kids go to college.

They could try a reduced LC, core subjects and one other maybe

A lot of “high achievers “ do OL at one of these subjects
Some even both(not too many though I’d imagine ) and do an extra subject
Prob more sensible that deferring it though
I don’t know
The most sensible solution is now looking like cancelling it altogether rather than running some diluted version for the sake of it
Cos that’s what it would be
Can not ask students to stay focused over the summer

wirelessdude01 · 09-04-2020 08:45AM

heldel00 wrote: »

There are primary teachers arguing about being asked to invigilate state exams on another site I follow. (To spread students out over a greater number of test centres and maintain social distancing)
Someone asked which circular/ article was this mentioned in and was told that it hasn't and the discussion is purely hypothetical.
So they are actually over there fighting about a makey-uppy idea. Bloody ridiculous!

Can you PM me that site please?

Mardy Bum · 09-04-2020 08:47AM

km79 wrote: »

A lot of “high achievers “ do OL at one of these subjects
Some even both(not too many though I’d imagine ) and do an extra subject
Prob more sensible that deferring it though
I don’t know
The most sensible solution is now looking like cancelling it altogether rather than running some diluted version for the sake of it
Cos that’s what it would be
Can not ask students to stay focused over the summer

I'd say a large percentage of primary school teachers every year do OL in either Maths or English.

km79 · 09-04-2020 09:03AM

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I'd say a large percentage of primary school teachers every year do OL in either Maths or English.

And some maybe both and do an extra subject in mornings and/or LCVP

I think it’s becoming clear that one plan has the clearest solution and is prob fairest on students (I am of course assuming it can’t be run as normal )
Cancel it
Fully
And work on contingency for college entry dot this year only

Treppen · 09-04-2020 09:03AM

heldel00 wrote: »

There are primary teachers arguing about being asked to invigilate state exams on another site I follow. (To spread students out over a greater number of test centres and maintain social distancing)
Someone asked which circular/ article was this mentioned in and was told that it hasn't and the discussion is purely hypothetical.
So they are actually over there fighting about a makey-uppy idea. Bloody ridiculous!

Well in fairness it's important to argue out your position now, even if it isn't set in stone. The same way we'd argue over predictive grading... Even though it definitely will NOT be happening :pac:

Rosita · 09-04-2020 09:05AM

khalessi wrote: »

People do shopping and leave. These kids will be sitting in a hall for upto 3 hours and would you as the invigilator or student feel good if someone else in the room was couging considering the droplet spread could be up to 28 feet? I know I would be very nervous especially if I had some sort of immunocomprised illness.

The questions you are putting above are exactly the questions also going through the heads of those trying to come up with a fair solution.

People do shopping and leave. These kids will be sitting in a hall for upto 3 hours and would you as the invigilator or student feel good if someone else in the room was couging considering the droplet spread could be up to 28 feet? I know I would be very nervous especially if I had some sort of immunocomprised illness.

I couldn't comment on the clinical aspects of the issue and how it might be spread. I would assume, however, as I do on any day in school, that the employer has taken reasonable precautions to ensure the safety of staff. In other words if they exam was happening it would be happening in an appropriate setting. I wouldn't expect everyone to think the same though.

The questions you are putting above are exactly the questions also going through the heads of those trying to come up with a fair solution.

Presumably they are. However, they are also required to answer those questions.

Bobtheman · 09-04-2020 09:10AM

Purefrank128 wrote: »

So normally the State exams are held in June and marked in July, mostly by active teachers on Sunmer holidays. If the exams are held in August, who will mark them?

I think you are getting ahead of yourself/ourselves. I doubt the announcement will name a specfic date or that they have thought that far ahead. They might delay opening secondary schools to allow that

heldel00 · 09-04-2020 09:13AM

Treppen wrote: »

Well in fairness it's important to argue out your position now, even if it isn't set in stone. The same way we'd argue over predictive grading... Even though it definitely will NOT be happening :pac:

But this hasn't even been suggested by the powers that be. One person mentioned it and they are going round and round in circles arguing over a non-event.

bren2001 · 09-04-2020 09:14AM

km79 wrote: »

And some maybe both and do an extra subject in mornings and/or LCVP

I think it’s becoming clear that one plan has the clearest solution and is prob fairest on students (I am of course assuming it can’t be run as normal )
Cancel it
Fully
And work on contingency for college entry dot this year only

That needs to be developed (not fully) before the exams are cancelled. I'm yet to hear a credible fair alternative for this.

I do agree that students need to know soon if the exams are going ahead in June and what the contingency plans are if they are not. It will also give time for Universities to coordinate to develop a common entry system or an agreed system.

khalessi · 09-04-2020 09:15AM

Rosita wrote: »

People do shopping and leave. These kids will be sitting in a hall for upto 3 hours and would you as the invigilator or student feel good if someone else in the room was couging considering the droplet spread could be up to 28 feet? I know I would be very nervous especially if I had some sort of immunocomprised illness.

I couldn't comment on the clinical aspects of the issue and how it might be spread. I would assume, however, as I do on any day in school, that the employer has taken reasonable precautions to ensure the safety of staff. In other words if they exam was happening it would be happening in an appropriate setting. I wouldn't expect everyone to think the same though.

The questions you are putting above are exactly the questions also going through the heads of those trying to come up with a fair solution.

Presumably they are. However, they are also required to answer those questions.

And they will but not to everyones satifaction along with the clinical aspects of the issue.

The problem is exactly as you mention people who work in education are not fully aware of the medical and H&S issues associated with putting on these exams and all of that has to be taken into account also. It is not just safety of staff but of the children also.

Would you wear a mask and gloves? If you do could it put children off their rhythm doing the exam. Do you go without to make them feel better and risk catching it?

So in school prior to Covid, the Ayliffe technique of handwashing wasnt well known and no one ensured little Johnny with a cold was not sitting next to Mary with asthma, or Paul with CF, or Billy with psoriasis as his meds make him immunocompromised. Sadly this is the world we are in at the moment and these are the scenarios along with the educational aspects that have to be examined too.

Yes these exams should go ahead but the headache is accomodating the above

km79 · 09-04-2020 09:36AM

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0409/1129463-covid-19-coronavirus-ireland/

We can assume that takes us to around May bank holiday
So that leaves 3 school weeks left
Does anyone REALLY believe we go from that to school then?
Not a chance
So
Not a chance they run in June .
And then it will be a gentle reversal of restrictions in a sensible manner
Right now I’d be looking at how to manage the start of the next school year !!!!

Schools closed until undetermined date - was March 29th

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