CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) Read OP

Downlinz · 03-04-2020 12:37PM

bilston wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong, but surely even if 20% of the population has immunity it would mean the virus spread would be slower which would reduce pressure on the hospitals?

Infecting 20% of the population without overwhelming hospitals would also take years, particularly in Ireland given our low capacity.

loughside · 03-04-2020 12:37PM

This is what you get when you let the thick Irish gov. let loose shopping on AliEspress.com

12:11
Gowns sent from China 'not fit for purpose'

Part of a consignment of personal protective equipment recently distributed to Covid-19 test centres, mobile ambulance units and hospitals in the Republic of Ireland is being described as "not fit for purpose" and "unusable" by medical staff, RTE is reporting.

It says some new deliveries of PPE distributed this week contained protective gowns which are three-quarter length on the arm.
gowns

This means that they are unusable for staff, since they do not give full protective cover.

The gowns are understood to have been supplied from China.

Martina1991 · 03-04-2020 12:40PM

is_that_so wrote:

I see the "game-changing" UK antibody tests are not quite as promising.

The antibody tests that claim to be quick, easy and available to buy in a shop are usually the least reliable.

The ones saying how great they are, are usually the companies that make them.

If and when serology tests for antibody detection become available, they will be performed in laboratories, not in the hands of the patient.

is_that_so · 03-04-2020 12:41PM

loughside wrote: »

This is what you get when you let the thick Irish gov. let loose shopping on AliEspress.com

12:11
Gowns sent from China 'not fit for purpose'

Part of a consignment of personal protective equipment recently distributed to Covid-19 test centres, mobile ambulance units and hospitals in the Republic of Ireland is being described as "not fit for purpose" and "unusable" by medical staff, RTE is reporting.

It says some new deliveries of PPE distributed this week contained protective gowns which are three-quarter length on the arm.
gowns

This means that they are unusable for staff, since they do not give full protective cover.

The gowns are understood to have been supplied from China.

Ah, a poster who reads a widespread issue into a single news report. That almost never happens here. I have no idea how prevalent it is but neither do you. In such whopping consignments there will be duds.

bilston · 03-04-2020 12:44PM

Downlinz wrote: »

Infecting 20% of the population without overwhelming hospitals would also take years, particularly in Ireland given our low capacity.

We need to know how many people have been infected. It could be more than expected, it could be less. Maybe 5% of the population has already been infected, they just haven't displayed symtpoms or suffered a lot, maybe not. It's probably why the WHO keeps telling us to test as many people as possible

caveat emptor · 03-04-2020 12:46PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Very interesting Data from Google showing the changes in movement patterns - Looks like every country is listed

https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/

Lots of details - Ireland data broken down by county

83% reduction in traffic to "Retail and Recreation" locations

37% Reduction to "Grocery & Pharmacy"

59% Reduction to Parks

78% reduction to Transit stations

52% reduction to workplaces

And a surprisingly low increase of 19% to Residential

That's brilliant. You can clearly see how that weekend everyone decided to go to the parks etc. Below is Dublin +80% :eek:

is_that_so · 03-04-2020 12:47PM

bilston wrote: »

We need to know how many people have been infected. It could be more than expected, it could be less. Maybe 5% of the population has already been infected, they just haven't displayed symtpoms or suffered a lot, maybe not. It's probably why the WHO keeps telling us to test as many people as possible

Testing and contact tracing to manage it as a public health issue. The full number may never be known but antibody tests when they come should give an indication.

Rob A. Bank · 03-04-2020 12:47PM

FVP3 wrote: »

Months, its a virus. That's what we are trying to stop.

And if the virus mutates in the second wave, like it did in the 1918 Spanish Flu... we start this crap all over again.

Also it is not known how long this 'Herd Immunity' will last. A percentage of the common cold is caused by coronaviruses and the 'immunity' gained does not stop next year's common cold infections.

This 'Herd Immunity' notion is a dangerous experiment on a nation's health and all that is predictable is that it will certainly cause geronticide.

Mental Mickey · 03-04-2020 12:47PM

Department Of Arts briefing?? Wtf lol? Just switched it on. Anything interesting?

Widdensushi · 03-04-2020 12:48PM

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Department Of Arts briefing?? Wtf lol? Just switched it on. Anything interesting?

no

is_that_so · 03-04-2020 12:49PM

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Department Of Arts briefing?? Wtf lol? Just switched it on. Anything interesting?

There's a fund being set up I believe.

tobefrank321 · 03-04-2020 12:49PM

loughside wrote: »

This is what you get when you let the thick Irish gov. let loose shopping on AliEspress.com

12:11
Gowns sent from China 'not fit for purpose'

Part of a consignment of personal protective equipment recently distributed to Covid-19 test centres, mobile ambulance units and hospitals in the Republic of Ireland is being described as "not fit for purpose" and "unusable" by medical staff, RTE is reporting.

It says some new deliveries of PPE distributed this week contained protective gowns which are three-quarter length on the arm.
gowns

This means that they are unusable for staff, since they do not give full protective cover.

The gowns are understood to have been supplied from China.

Sounds like the equipment was cast offs or manufactured for Chinese citizens who are smaller in stature or else outfits more suitable for chemical warfare than day to day working a hospital.

Did they have anyone in China who could take a look over this consignment before it was despatched here? 203 million and no quality control it appears.

No more than the table and flyers at Dublin Airport, the fight against covid19 seems to be led by rank amateurs, from the civilian/non medical side of things.

ShayNanigan · 03-04-2020 12:51PM

moritz1234 wrote: »

The death rates don't seem to back up this conspiracy theory.

It's not a conspiracy theory. It was actually reported in the news in Italy that researchers determined from the mutations that the virus had been around since November. Deaths were not obviously listed as being caused by Covid-19 at the time but pneumonia.

Also there is public data from China stating the new unknown coronavirus was causing smaller outbreaks in November.

Here's one paper mentioning November:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK554776/

That's only one source. There are several research papers discussing this and how the virus has been around probably in October/November 2019.

And where's the conspiracy? It seems to have been a lab accident. Not a planned thing to kill all the people on the planet but an unfortunate accident involving laboratory staff.

is_that_so · 03-04-2020 12:52PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Sounds like the equipment was cast offs or manufactured for Chinese citizens who are smaller in stature or else outfits more suitable for chemical warfare than day to day working a hospital.

Did they have anyone in China who could take a look over this consignment before it was despatched here? 203 million and no quality control it appears.

No more than the table and flyers at Dublin Airport, the fight against covid19 seems to be led by rank amateurs, from the civilian/non medical side of things.

Someone at both ends and "part/a few/a handful/one or two" does not indicate a lack of QC, just that they found duds. There was a comment on the RTE feed that they have now "tweaked" the order.

topper75 · 03-04-2020 12:53PM

Demographics is certainly a mitigating factor for the developing world.

Italy had 1 in 4 people over the age of 65 at the start of this year. 25% as opposed to our 15. Add in their social customs, industrial pollution, etc. and it is springtime for a respiratory virus such as Covid-19. Similar issue in Madrid/Barcelona.

Ireland after the great famine had something like a mere 3% in that bracket. This fits the profile of many of the poorer nations today.

careless sherpa · 03-04-2020 12:53PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Sounds like the equipment was cast offs or manufactured for Chinese citizens who are smaller in stature or else outfits more suitable for chemical warfare than day to day working a hospital.

Did they have anyone in China who could take a look over this consignment before it was despatched here? 203 million and no quality control it appears.

No more than the table and flyers at Dublin Airport, the fight against covid19 seems to be led by rank amateurs, from the civilian/non medical side of things.

Seems to be a battle to get any ppe gear shipments from China with the Americans trying to outbid plane loads of gear ready for take off and divert them to the states. Should have been sourced a month or two ago as is chaotic now

Wombatman · 03-04-2020 12:53PM

FishOnABike wrote: »

Medical resources tend to scale linearly with population. With a geometric or exponential growth rate for CoViD-19, the larger the population the larger the potential gap between medical resources and the number of infected people needing hospitalisation or ICU care.

I'm more comfortable to be living in a relatively small, well resourced country that introduced progressive containment / distancing / isolation policies reasonably quickly and as a result has deaths in the low to mid teens a day rather than over 1000 a day.

It's still all relative to population size.

A country of 5 million with 20 deaths per million having a worse experience than a country of 50 million with 10 deaths per million.

Yes more people are dying in the country with fifty million, but if you broke that country up into 10 small regions of 5 million, all 10 regions would have fewer deaths than the first country.

You say we are a well resourced country. I'm not sure that is the case for access to hospital services. Aren't we well don't the list in ICU beds per capita?

CIARAN_BOYLE · 03-04-2020 12:55PM

loughside wrote: »

This is what you get when you let the thick Irish gov. let loose shopping on AliEspress.com

12:11
Gowns sent from China 'not fit for purpose'

Part of a consignment of personal protective equipment recently distributed to Covid-19 test centres, mobile ambulance units and hospitals in the Republic of Ireland is being described as "not fit for purpose" and "unusable" by medical staff, RTE is reporting.

It says some new deliveries of PPE distributed this week contained protective gowns which are three-quarter length on the arm.
gowns

This means that they are unusable for staff, since they do not give full protective cover.

The gowns are understood to have been supplied from China.

Do you have a source with more detsils? Could they be designed for use with certain gloves which we neglected to order?

Jimmy Garlic · 03-04-2020 12:58PM

The death toll from the Orwellian lock down will far exceed that from the virus that the vast majority of people recover from in a week. Suicide alone will spike massively, especially when people realise they have no jobs to go back to.

blackcard · 03-04-2020 12:59PM

Scotland reported 46 new deaths today after 50 deaths yesterday. The reason for the increased number of deaths yesterday was down to 1 laboratory not reporting correctly, not sure why there is still a high number today. It was also reported that the figures will increase next week as they include cases where deaths were 'likely' to have been caused by the virus
Where people have covid-19 and underlying conditions, there are differences in what some countries put down as the cause of death, I.e. the underlying condition or covid-19.
Given that France also had a large increase in reported deaths yesterday as it included previously non-reported deaths in nursing homes, it may be some time before we get figures where you can make a like for like comparison.
Are post mortems carried on all deaths in Ireland to establish the cause?

is_that_so · 03-04-2020 12:59PM

Germany flattening.

Germany is flattening off, Health Minister Jens Spahn said. He said Germany had already obtained 1,500 new ventilators and added that these would be in clinics by April.

Ace2007 · 03-04-2020 01:00PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Do you have a source with more detsils? Could they be designed for use with certain gloves which we neglected to order?

Don’t be silly of course the poster doesn’t have a source - it’s journalist - write anything look for figures and facts later.

Some PPE not usuable - is that 1% or 20% or does that matter when wanting to sensationalise a story?

It is understood to be from China - could the journalist not get confirmation on the story?

In recent years and with the explosion of online reporting - there is some amount of crap written that doesn’t contain definite information.

Wombatman · 03-04-2020 01:00PM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

The death toll from the Orwellian lock down will far exceed that from the virus that the vast majority of people recover from in a week. Suicide alone will spike massively, especially when people realise they have no jobs to go back to.

Sources other than your own fevered mind?

is_that_so · 03-04-2020 01:01PM

blackcard wrote: »

Scotland reported 46 new deaths today after 50 deaths yesterday. The reason for the increased number of deaths yesterday was down to 1 laboratory not reporting correctly, not sure why there is still a high number today. It was also reported that the figures will increase next week as they include cases where deaths were 'likely' to have been caused by the virus
Where people have covid-19 and underlying conditions, there are differences in what some countries put down as the cause of death, I.e. the underlying condition or covid-19.
Given that France also had a large increase in reported deaths yesterday as it included previously non-reported deaths in nursing homes, it may be some time before we get figures where you can make a like for like comparison.
Are post mortems carried on all deaths in Ireland to establish the cause?

In general a PM is only used to establish cause of death, if it is unknown.

Doctors room ghost · 03-04-2020 01:01PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Sounds like the equipment was cast offs or manufactured for Chinese citizens who are smaller in stature or else outfits more suitable for chemical warfare than day to day working a hospital.

Did they have anyone in China who could take a look over this consignment before it was despatched here? 203 million and no quality control it appears.

No more than the table and flyers at Dublin Airport, the fight against covid19 seems to be led by rank amateurs, from the civilian/non medical side of things.

And varadkar on the phone a few days back thanking them for taking our money and blowing them kisses.
Time to play hard ball with the sneaky fcukers now and less of the nicey niceys.
If it’s not fit for purpose it should be flown back to them at their expense and tell them to rev up and fcuk off

tobefrank321 · 03-04-2020 01:01PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Someone at both ends and "part/a few/a handful/one or two" does not indicate a lack of QC, just that they found duds. There was a comment on the RTE feed that they have now "tweaked" the order.

Nope, the reports I saw indicated most of the consignment was useless. I presume we'll be asking for a refund.

There's nothing to indicate the next consignment won't have similar issues. Which is why you ask someone to sign off on these consignments before they leave China. Even the WHO could do it.

We don't have time to be making basic mistakes. Every mistake we make from now on will cost lives and extend lockdown further.

FVP3 · 03-04-2020 01:03PM

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

And if the virus mutates in the second wave, like it did in the 1918 Spanish Flu... we start this crap all over again.

Also it is not known how long this 'Herd Immunity' will last. A percentage of the common cold is caused by coronaviruses and the 'immunity' gained does not stop next year's common cold infections.

This 'Herd Immunity' notion is a dangerous experiment on a nation's health and all that is predictable is that it will certainly cause geronticide.

I am not urging herd immunity for western countries right now, I am saying quite clearly that the younger populations in developing countries will probably get mildly sick and protect the rest. The median african age is 18 or 19. That was what we were talking about.

Herd immunity is as effective or ineffective, by the way, as a vaccine. Neither is useful if a whole new strain of infection appears and dominates the season. I don't know how many people we are expecting to give the vaccine to but it won't be everybody so we expect some kind of herd immunity from vaccines too. The herd effect of vaccines is well known.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3171704/

Ace2007 · 03-04-2020 01:03PM

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

And varadkar on the phone a few days back thanking them for taking our money and blowing them kisses.
Time to play hard ball with the sneaky fcukers now and less of the nicey niceys.
If it’s not fit for purpose it should be flown back to them at their expense and tell them to rev up and fcuk off

Do you have a source that the money has already being paid?

Ace2007 · 03-04-2020 01:04PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Nope, the reports I saw indicated most of the consignment was useless. I presume we'll be asking for a refund.

There's nothing to indicate the next consignment won't have similar issues. Which is why you ask someone to sign off on these consignments before they leave China. Even the WHO could do it.

We don't have time to be making basic mistakes. Every mistake we make from now on will cost lives and extend lockdown further.

Most? Can you provide a source to this please and thank you

MarkY91 · 03-04-2020 01:04PM

Unleash the virus on the world and then sell the world dodgy PPE gear.

Those Chinese are a great bunch of lads.....

CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) **Read OP**

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CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) Read OP