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CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) **Read OP**

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Comments

  • #6992
    Bob24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,886 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    I've seen many wear scarves over their mouths when I went shopping a few days ago.

    Is there any evidence for this measure? Or should we just do it anyway before the evidence comes in, one way or another?

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1245822708337827840?s=19

    I’d say it has rather limited effect to protect you from others (might help a bit but even less than a simple surgical mask and nowhere near an FFP 2/3 mask, plus if the scarf blocks something then you might put the virus on your hands when you take it off so like with a mask you shouldn’t touch the part which was in from if your mouth).

    However while not as good as a mask, IMO it will definitely block some of the droplets you exhale, so if you are sick it will reduce the quantity of virus you disseminate. Measurements would be needed to know exactly how much and it definitely won’t be as good as a surgical mask, but it will do something so even without knowing exactly how efficient it might be I guess it is always good to take.


  • #6993
    bekker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 912 ✭✭✭bekker


    ITman88 wrote: »
    Yeah the last point here is critical.

    I hope I don’t sound callous but in nursing homes, when people of ailing health with a median age of 92 contract an infection, they are not going to go to hospital.
    The main object of the staff is to make the patient as comfortable as possible.

    When a patient has a covid - 19 positive test and dies, it is often not the cause of death.
    Where did you get the median 92 for nursing homes, sounds way off.
    You didn't - scanning inaccuracy on my part

    Yes it is, it's the proximate cause of death, death is inevitable, one can have an underlying condition with potentially years of life to enjoy and die prematurely from COVID-19 aggravation.

    COVID-19 IS the proximate cause of death.


  • #6994
    Popeleo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 423 ✭✭Popeleo


    macmahon wrote: »
    Trust me. Im not being pedantic. Im aspergers and just read things as they are! I just don't understand shutting down the whole country for such small numbers of death due to covid19? Every other day here in Ireland there are on average 90 deaths a day! Why are we just RIP ing just Covid19 deaths and not the others in that day?

    Because of the exponential growth that is like nothing else we have experienced in several generations.

    When the capacity of the hospital ICUs etc. is reached, the death rate can go from c. 1% to c. 10%. and it won't be just the old and frail that cannot be saved.


  • #6995
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    I've seen many wear scarves over their mouths when I went shopping a few days ago.

    Is there any evidence for this measure? Or should we just do it anyway before the evidence comes in, one way or another?

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1245822708337827840?s=19
    Might be more likely to protect others from anything you are carrying rather than protecting you from something others are carrying but it's a nice common sense simple approach tot ake rather than wearing masks every where when there is shortages.


  • #6996
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 13,340 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    macmahon wrote: »
    Trust me. Im not being pedantic. Im aspergers and just read things as they are! I just don't understand shutting down the whole country for such small numbers of death due to covid19? Every other day here in Ireland there are on average 90 deaths a day! Why are we just RIP ing just Covid19 deaths and not the others in that day?

    Because of how it rises exponentially. It's not the numbers of people currently dying from this is the concern, tragic as it is. But how it could swamp our health services. And, it's a new illness. How things could go from this now to something much worse very quickly, if we don't act.

    It's a very interesting thing McM. It involves epidemiology, risk management, politics, medicine.... There are good reasons for the current measures.


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  • #6997
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    I've seen many wear scarves over their mouths when I went shopping a few days ago.

    Is there any evidence for this measure? Or should we just do it anyway before the evidence comes in, one way or another?

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1245822708337827840?s=19

    Thinking about it logically it prevents some droplets/aerosols being exhaled into the wider atmosphere. And minimises the distance of spread.


  • #6998
    ihdxwz4a3pem9j
    Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭ihdxwz4a3pem9j


    macmahon wrote: »
    Trust me. Im not being pedantic. Im aspergers and just read things as they are! I just don't understand shutting down the whole country for such small numbers of death due to covid19? Every other day here in Ireland there are on average 90 deaths a day! Why are we just RIP ing just Covid19 deaths and not the others in that day?

    The difference between the 90 deaths per day, is that they are largely not due to contagious illnesses. If somebody sadly passes away from a heart attack, (s)he will not spread this. However, in the case of a contagious illness, this can be spread, and lead to an exponential (massive explosion of case) increase in the number of cases. About 6% of all cases will require critical care (which requires an incredible amount of resources per patient). Furthermore, each patient will require approximately 10-12 days of critical care. Since, Ireland (like every country in the world) has only a finite number of critical care beds, we have to try to reduce the overall rate of spread. By doing this, we reduce the number of patients requiring critical care at any given time. This ensures that people who are otherwise appropriate candidates for critical care will both receive critical care, and receive optimal care. If we let the virus spread like wildfire, the hospital-system starts to fall apart. Medical systems are expected to function in a chaotic and overwhelmed system.

    Social restrictions has been demonstrated to reduce the transmission of the illness


  • #6999
    blackcard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,569 ✭✭✭blackcard


    Logan Roy wrote: »
    What? Belgium have 900 more deaths than us. It would take nearly 3 weeks of 50 deaths a day to get to where they are now.

    Belgium has 87 deaths per million population, we have 20 deaths per million. If we had 50 deaths per day or 350 in a week, that would bring our rate to 92 deaths per million


  • #7000
    MD1990
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,740 ✭✭✭✭MD1990


    1,355 dead in france today.

    very sad


  • #7001
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    MD1990 wrote: »
    1,355 dead in france today.

    very sad

    884 of those is under reporting from previous weeks. Fatalities in nursing homes were not counted previously in the French total.


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  • #7002
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,783 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    macmahon wrote: »
    Trust me. Im not being pedantic. Im aspergers and just read things as they are! I just don't understand shutting down the whole country for such small numbers of death due to covid19?

    To prevent a much larger number of deaths due to covid-19.


  • #7003
    beolight
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 624 ✭✭✭beolight


    blackcard wrote: »
    Far too early to be complacent. Also, I think that only 14 of those that died had been in ICU. Not sure why such a small number, I thought the most serious cases would have been in ICU. Maybe not moving elderly people from nursing homes? An element of triaigeing?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frailty_index

    How many Nursing Homes have ventilators?

    Triaging/palliative care/ euth .. it’s a thin line


  • #7004
    Greentopia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭Greentopia


    devnull wrote: »
    What is the average age and social care system like in Sweden?

    Is there a significant problem to be solved or money to be saved by getting rid of a large number of elderly and sick?

    Elder care is highly developed and generally well funded, mostly by taxes through municipalities, though private care has increased in the last decade or so with mixed results.
    The emphasis is on keeping people independent and in their own homes with home help services and other care interventions as needed, as much as possible.

    Around 20% of the population is +65 years old, increasing to one in four by 2040 so has one of the oldest populations in the world. Costs therefore would be significant- https://www.statista.com/statistics/531109/sweden-expenditure-on-elderly-care/-around €11 billion, and I may be naive but I genuinely don't think the aim of their approach to the virus is about saving money or solving problems.

    It's not like they're doing nothing, they're practicing good hygiene, social distancing (which is the norm there anyway tbh), advising over 70s to stay home and all those who can work from home are doing so. They're just trusting that people will follow the government and clinical advice willingly.


  • #7005
    macmahon
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 83 ✭✭macmahon


    tuxy wrote: »
    The difference is for other issues we have measures in our society to deal with it.
    This is new and can overrun our entire health care system. Other things can kill many people but they do not cause the total collapse of a countries health care.

    Thankyou. But so far this isn't and it seems to be going on for a long time. I was up at the CUH today for an appointment and everything was quiet? Never seen the place so quiet!


  • #7006
    Beanybabog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,455 ✭✭✭Beanybabog


    How long do people think the ban on family visits will be?


  • #7007
    Achasanai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Achasanai


    Logan Roy wrote: »
    What? Belgium have 900 more deaths than us. It would take nearly 3 weeks of 50 deaths a day to get to where they are now.


    I presume the poster means per head of population. We're not quite at Belgium's level (when comparing in terms of days since the first death) but far ahead of the UK, Sweden, Italy, US on day 9 (per head of population).


    http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/


  • #7008
    bekker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 912 ✭✭✭bekker


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Yes sure. I understand. You are correct.

    The WHO took their time in naming the new virus, and in the meantime everyone was talking about the novel Coronavirus. Since called simply Coronavirus.

    I think the current virus is called SARS 2 Coronavirus, and the illness it causes, Covid19.

    Obviously most people will know what you mean by the word Coronavirus in the current context, but it's a shorthand.
    Not shorthand, sloppy.

    Sloppy language leads to sloppy thinking, and there's enough of that are around already.

    Thinking COVID-19 = coronavirus negates the ability to correctly filter memes on coronavirus.

    Misinformation has an R0 of >10k.


  • #7009
    CitizenFloor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 308 ✭✭CitizenFloor


    Solli wrote:
    - Ventilators are not the sole issue.

    Thanks for the explanation....

    I guess my question if I was a journalist would be...."Are all our 500 ICU beds equiped with ventilators, and do we have appropriately trained staff to run them? If we do not, how many ventilators do we have, that staff are trained to use?"


  • #7010
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 78,513 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Strazdas wrote: »
    They are in fact : Dr Holohan says they are recording all nursing home deaths

    But that has to be caveated. They are only recording those "diagnosed" with Covid-19. We do not know if they are testing everyone in nursing homes


  • #7011
    Naos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭Naos


    macmahon wrote: »
    Thankyou. But so far this isn't and it seems to be going on for a long time. I was up at the CUH today for an appointment and everything was quiet? Never seen the place so quiet!

    It isn't (overrunning our health system currently) because of the measures we've put in place and the majority of people are adhering too.


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  • #7012
    froog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    Christ trump has his lizard vampire of a son in law heading up the supply chain team. They are super ****ed.


  • #7013
    BanditLuke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    Beanybabog wrote: »
    How long do people think the ban on family visits will be?

    I'd say July at the earliest and then another shutdown in October for longer this time with the much more letal second wave.


  • #7014
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 13,340 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    bekker wrote: »
    Not shorthand, sloppy.

    Sloppy language leads to sloppy thinking, and there's enough of that are around already.

    Thinking COVID-19 = coronavirus negates the ability to correctly filter memes on coronavirus.

    Misinformation has an R0 of >10k.

    I know.

    At least it's not a novel rhinovirus we're dealing with. Those poor creatures have it tough already.


  • #7015
    macmahon
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 83 ✭✭macmahon


    BanditLuke wrote: »
    Imagine RTE doing a piece like that.


    Nah me neither.

    They did didn't they?...yvonne kinsella rte...google it!


  • #7016
    amadangomor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭amadangomor


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    How many people in that photo can you picture hooked up to a ventilator? Three at least. That guy with the beard stuffing his face, was it worth it?

    They should be branded with an idiot stamp on their foreheads and not allowed to take an ICU bed if they need one.


  • #7017
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 78,513 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Logan Roy wrote: »
    That line is orange not red

    I don't want to worry you, but mixing up orange and red is one of the symptoms of....







    ...colour blindness (not to be confused with coronavirus)


  • #7018
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    BanditLuke wrote: »
    I'd say July at the earliest and then another shutdown in October for longer this time with the much more letal second wave.

    Thats complete scaremongering, nobody can say about a more lethal wave.

    At some point a decision will be taken to get back to as close as possible to every day life. Be it June, July whenever. But you can't come out and say a more lethal wave as nobody has any proof of that


  • #7019
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,427 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Beasty wrote: »
    But that has to be caveated. They are only recording those "diagnosed" with Covid-19. We do not know if they are testing everyone in nursing homes

    Well they have no reason to do a test on anyone in a nursing home not displaying Covid symptoms, so it's as good a method as any I guess.


  • #7020
    kenmc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭kenmc


    MadYaker wrote: »
    No cases in North Korea?? What’s their secret?!

    Shoot on sight. If there's a person carrying the virus at the time, oopsie.


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  • #7021
    Martina1991
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,545 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    UrbanFret wrote:
    Can the labs that usually test for the veterinary world help I wonder?
    igCorcaigh wrote:
    Wouldn't think so. It's the lack of reagent that seems to be the issue.
    sadie1502 wrote:
    Of course why not. They are labs. They can test the swabs.
    y0ssar1an22 wrote:
    a proprietary reagent i think? i wonder could they make it if free to do so?
    sadie1502 wrote:
    Well they can test once they have the reagents.


    Just because a facility has a laboratory does not mean it can perform diagnostic testing.

    Just because reagents can be bought from suppliers does not mean they can perform diagnostic testing.

    Testing is carried out by Medical Scientists. These professionals have to have a BSc in Biomedical Science that is accredited by the Academy of Medical Laboratory Scientists. It is estimated ~70% of the profession have also obtained their MSc.

    There are ~2,000 Medical Scientists employed in Ireland working in public and private hospitals.

    This profession is specifically trained and qualified to perform high complexity diagnostic testing. It cannot be just open to any place or anyone.


This discussion has been closed.
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