Coronavirus Pandemic Information- Local and Worldwide

31-03-2020 09:49AM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Have you ever had a loved one who was denied access to care because of the cost, whether directly in medicine/procedure costs or indirectly due to underfunding of health budget?
Why is now any different?

No....and tbh i have never heard of people being denied healthcare here due to cost

Usually healthcare/continuing treatment come down to quality of life decisions in the end

Bass Reeves · 31-03-2020 10:29AM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Even at 30k deaths it's €300k/life to the taxpayer on top of loss to the economy

It about much more than cost/life. Can you imagine the effect that 20-30k deaths would have on people if it happened over s 3-4 week period. Already people's where a family member die cannot go through a normal funeral, no mass no burial, no closing the coffin ceremony, saying good bye to the deceased and on top of that there will be a cremation as well.

Can you imagine the devastation of that happening 30k times in a 3-4 week period. Some cremations would not happen for weeks. We have to build crematorium's rather than hospital beds. That unless like with foot and mouth in the UK we stack them in fire pits.

As well as that you have to factor in the devastation it would cause in the Health service, you would have an extremely high casualty rate amount staff. If we went uncontrolled.could you ask health staff to actually go to work.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 31-03-2020 10:54AM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

That €10 billion is just to the tax payer, that could very easily be multiples yet. It doesn't include the cost to the economy which will mean the total cost per life potentially (even with restrictions we we're unable to prevent the virus reaching nursing homes) saved will be over €100,000 no matter what way you play with the figures.
What value do you think someone's life is worth if they're 20-30, 30-40, 40-50, 60-70, 70-80, 80+? Put a value on it.

Even work of the higher death rate and it still doesn't change the fact that it is a massive cost per person for very little benefit. Nobody apart from those with people closely affected by the inability to access expensive life saving/changing treatments ever gave a massive amount of thought to it. But now it's mammy or daddy, or granny and grandad who could be affected...

Do you want to live in an economy or a society?

In a society, people are important and much time and money is spent on health and quality of life.

In an economy, businesses are important and much time and money is spent on ensuring profitability and continuation of businesses.

I might be on my own in this but I'm glad I live in a society where, despite my health being less than optimal, I am given the opportunity to stay alive and contribute to the society I live in.

Limestone Cowboy · 31-03-2020 10:57AM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

That €10 billion is just to the tax payer, that could very easily be multiples yet. It doesn't include the cost to the economy which will mean the total cost per life potentially (even with restrictions we we're unable to prevent the virus reaching nursing homes) saved will be over €100,000 no matter what way you play with the figures.
What value do you think someone's life is worth if they're 20-30, 30-40, 40-50, 60-70, 70-80, 80+? Put a value on it.

Even work of the higher death rate and it still doesn't change the fact that it is a massive cost per person for very little benefit. Nobody apart from those with people closely affected by the inability to access expensive life saving/changing treatments ever gave a massive amount of thought to it. But now it's mammy or daddy, or granny and grandad who could be affected...

Put a value on your own there sure and you'll give the rest of us something to work off :rolleyes:

Buford T. Justice XIX · 31-03-2020 11:00AM

Travel restrictions into the country and within the country are being discussed today.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/travel-restrictions-into-and-on-island-of-ireland-to-be-discussed-by-nphet-today-991162.html

Gillespy · 31-03-2020 11:02AM

It's gives one a nice feeling to dismiss the economy and say silly things like ''one life is too much''. History shows people suffer and die in depressions and that comes next. I see no harm discussing that.

Issue is they left themselves no choice. This thing was coming and as an island on the edge of Europe we didn't even try anything to stop it. When China were building hospitals in mere days and driving trucks through the streets disinfecting buildings and roads, we were gormless as usual. If they weren't going to close the boarders, why not start preparing. Only this week they had to sent planes to China of PPE. Testing is a shambles, that should have been planned for. Our pain would be reduced significantly with a proper testing policy. A day late and a dollar short, costing lives today and will be felt for very long time when the virus is gone.

yosemitesam1 · 31-03-2020 11:13AM

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Do you want to live in an economy or a society?

In a society, people are important and much time and money is spent on health and quality of life.

In an economy, businesses are important and much time and money is spent on ensuring profitability and continuation of businesses.

I might be on my own in this but I'm glad I live in a society where, despite my health being less than optimal, I am given the opportunity to stay alive and contribute to the society I live in.

We will have €10 billion (so far) less to spend on society over the coming years. How much damage will longer waiting lists, lack of bed capacity, reduced spending on mental health etc cost us in lives lost over the next 10 years. We can't spend all this now and not expect to be hit at some stage or can we?

alps · 31-03-2020 11:47AM

A_Lost_Man wrote: »

Covid-19 is more infectious to rich people than poor people. It seems it is anti capitalistic and it china it has slowed down

It's a rich world infection only because it has been transported around the world by rich peoples lifestyles...

However it will decimate poor people if it engulfs their countries..

_Brian · 31-03-2020 11:54AM

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Do you want to live in an economy or a society?

In a society, people are important and much time and money is spent on health and quality of life.

In an economy, businesses are important and much time and money is spent on ensuring profitability and continuation of businesses.

I might be on my own in this but I'm glad I live in a society where, despite my health being less than optimal, I am given the opportunity to stay alive and contribute to the society I live in.

I think the economy or society is a great question and I’d expect different answers from different demographics in society. Younger people with little life experience may think the former is the priority and that if you have a strong economy then a strong society will result.
That’s simply not true. Strong bullish economies are great for the 2%, hard work for about 80% amd absolutely awful for the rest. America is a stunning example, the richest third world ****hole country on the planet because it’s driven by noting but the economy and capitalism.

Bass Reeves · 31-03-2020 12:32PM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

We will have €10 billion (so far) less to spend on society over the coming years. How much damage will longer waiting lists, lack of bed capacity, reduced spending on mental health etc cost us in lives lost over the next 10 years. We can't spend all this now and not expect to be hit at some stage or can we?

A recession was coming anyway. There an old saying ''its an ill wind that blows no good''.

Say this had not happened and we went another 2-3 years of a boom, especially with Trump unbeatable in a US election. We would have a government under pressure to throw money at every sort of perceived problem. At least going into recession now we have money I in the back pocket to try to manage it

_Brian · 31-03-2020 12:38PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

A recession was coming anyway. There an old saying ''its an ill wind that blows no good''.

Say this had not happened and we went another 2-3 years of a boom, especially with Trump unbeatable in a US election. We would have a government under pressure to throw money at every sort of perceived problem. At least going into recession now we have money I in the back pocket to try to manage it

Cheap money too. Cheapest it’s ever been.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 31-03-2020 01:07PM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

We will have €10 billion (so far) less to spend on society over the coming years. How much damage will longer waiting lists, lack of bed capacity, reduced spending on mental health etc cost us in lives lost over the next 10 years. We can't spend all this now and not expect to be hit at some stage or can we?

You're well short of the cost of this at 10B, we're looking at multiples of that.

To let it spread though the population would dramatically slash the waiting lists. Patients going on ventilators would need 2 weeks or more on ventilation before they had a chance to come off, according to a few reports I read.

When there's pressure on ventilators in normal times with normal requirements, some of those needing ventilators will die but very small numbers.

When the requirements for ventilation exceed the ventilators by 3 or 4 fold, not only are the coronavirus patients going to die in droves, those normally requiring ventilators will also die in droves as there's no ventilators available.

And that's before you you add in the elderly, cancer patients, MS, asthma, diabetics, people with heart disease and many, many more before you get as far the the normally healthy people who will fall seriously ill and require hospitalisation.

And the doctors and nurses who have a hugely increased probability of catching this due to their care for those seriously ill with multiple diseases.

We lost a decade with the fcukwittery of the Celtic Tiger, a decade lost fighting this would be far more palatable, imo.

_Brian · 31-03-2020 01:14PM

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

You're well short of the cost of this at 10B, we're looking at multiples of that.

To let it spread though the population would dramatically slash the waiting lists. Patients going on ventilators would need 2 weeks or more on ventilation before they had a chance to come off, according to a few reports I read.

When there's pressure on ventilators in normal times with normal requirements, some of those needing ventilators will die but very small numbers.

When the requirements for ventilation exceed the ventilators by 3 or 4 fold, not only are the coronavirus patients going to die in droves, those normally requiring ventilators will also die in droves as there's no ventilators available.

And that's before you you add in the elderly, cancer patients, MS, asthma, diabetics, people with heart disease and many, many more before you get as far the the normally healthy people who will fall seriously ill and require hospitalisation.

And the doctors and nurses who have a hugely increased probability of catching this due to their care for those seriously ill with multiple diseases.

We lost a decade with the fcukwittery of the Celtic Tiger, a decade lost fighting this would be far more palatable, imo.

Viral load is an issue for front line staff too.

Where a patient isn’t identified soon enough staff can be exposed multiple times a day. It’s continuous exposure increases the viral load and even a healthy persons immune system is decimated and it’s hard to save them.

_Brian · 31-03-2020 03:32PM

See testing is suspended in border regions as supply of test kits is unclear.

Bound to happen as testing is ramped up, we’re currently testing at more than 2x that South Korea did and they were hailed as a model to follow. I think the issue of wholesale mask wearing should have been investigated as Korea do this and their numbers are staggeringly low.

I’d say this is local HSE putting pressure on to redistribute kits while more are sourced.

Say my name · 31-03-2020 03:40PM

alps wrote: »

However it will decimate poor people if it engulfs their countries..

It might not and there's possibly a bit of western thinking that they're better than the poorer countries.

In western countries we eliminate all bacteria and viruses where possible.
In the poorer countries they're way more advanced than we are and instead of killing things they use solutions called Effective Microorganisms that they cultivate in the forest into solutions and use that instead of the way we use savlon and dettol. The theory is and it's effective hence the name is that the solution contains billions of different types of organisms that crowd out any one bacteria or virus and stop that to proliferate.
I don't know how widespread it's use is but it's definitely a thing and commercially available and at odds with western home management.

But the mo of this virus seems to be attacking those most who haven't been exposed to various viruses and bacteria that children in western society have and constantly do.
Think of it as your Dutch heifers coming from an indoor system into Ireland. Fine indoors in Holland. Put them outdoors in a field in Ireland and they pick up everything.

The story of this virus is still being written.

Base price · 31-03-2020 07:57PM

17 deaths today and 325 new cases.
https://www.gov.ie/en/news/7e0924-latest-updates-on-covid-19-coronavirus/#march-31

alps · 31-03-2020 08:26PM

325 new cases...

Remember folks....

We don't have an infection rate...

We have a detection rate....

Water John · 31-03-2020 08:54PM

Stupid middle aged bitch in Cork decided to drive with the husband to post a letter. Stopped by the Guards and she tells them that she has been tested and is positive. Guards tell her go home.
I suppose she thought she had no risk of infection as she already had it.

Dinzee Conlee · 31-03-2020 08:56PM

Water John wrote: »

Stupid middle aged bitch in Cork decided to drive with the husband to post a letter. Stopped by the Guards and she tells them that she has been tested and is positive. Guards tell her go home.
I suppose she thought she had no risk of infection as she already had it.

Where was this, and how did you hear of it?

_Brian · 31-03-2020 08:56PM

Water John wrote: »

Stupid middle aged bitch in Cork decided to drive with the husband to post a letter. Stopped by the Guards and she tells them that she has been tested and is positive. Guards tell her go home.
I suppose she thought she had no risk of infection as she already had it.

The virus has changed much about the country and how were living, but not things like the fact that lots of the population are total idiots.

CloughCasey1 · 31-03-2020 09:08PM

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Put a value on your own there sure and you'll give the rest of us something to work off :rolleyes:

I'd bag him and **** him in the lake as according to himself he is worthless.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 31-03-2020 09:10PM

The graphics in the tweet below are a great case for wearing masks in public spaces.
https://twitter.com/AndyBiotech/status/1244418163741282308?s=19
It'll be a while before there's any available for the general public, though.

Water John · 31-03-2020 09:14PM

Sorry can't find where I read the article.
Buford, Fauci is talking about the public wearing masks in the US.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 31-03-2020 09:18PM

Water John wrote: »

Sorry can't find where I read the article.
Buford, Fauci is talking about the public wearing masks in the US.

I was watching a few clips of himself and Cuomo over the last few days and both have been very impressive performers both on camera and in the work they're doing.

Say my name · 31-03-2020 09:27PM

Ah come on Clough we're all entitled to our opinions here. It's what makes this forum tick with all differing opinions.

Yosemitesam I've a feeling is able to run rings around us all as farmers.
It's no harm to have anyone's thoughts questioned and who knows he may be correct.

The current status of the country is phucked and the restrictions are more so.
There's people who can't visit terminal ill relations (from other conditions) and if the worst happens atm won't be allowed attend their funeral.
But if it does mean that other lives are saved with this clampdown then it'll be worth it but it'll still grate with the people involved now forever in their lives.

But Yosemitesam has always insisted we need to know where we are with this virus in this country.
This could be the last days of it. But it looks like the restrictions will be held while positives keep showing up.

CloughCasey1 · 31-03-2020 10:06PM

Say my name wrote: »

Ah come on Clough we're all entitled to our opinions here. It's what makes this forum tick with all differing opinions.

Yosemitesam I've a feeling is able to run rings around us all as farmers.
It's no harm to have anyone's thoughts questioned and who knows he may be correct.

The current status of the country is phucked and the restrictions are more so.
There's people who can't visit terminal ill relations (from other conditions) and if the worst happens atm won't be allowed attend their funeral.
But if it does mean that other lives are saved with this clampdown then it'll be worth it but it'll still grate with the people involved now forever in their lives.

But Yosemitesam has always insisted we need to know where we are with this virus in this country.
This could be the last days of it. But it looks like the restrictions will be held while positives keep showing up.

Yes Ped. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm a dad, husband, son, brother, businessman and farmer. Priority in that order also. No life is worth losing. Ya cant put a value on a life no matter what age. Whether the governments in any country believes in the current agenda is only guessing. Whether they know more than they let on is another question. It would be political suicide for them to put a value on life and put the economy first. Unfortunatly they may have done so as the cat was well out of the bag before there was any reaction. Life will go on. We will get over it we will come out the other side. But if anyone wants to be the one who puts a € ahead of the lives of his/her people then they will be the one remembered in 80 years time like a small vocal moustached fella was back then.

Say my name · 31-03-2020 10:34PM

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Yes Ped. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm a dad, husband, son, brother, businessman and farmer. Priority in that order also. No life is worth losing. Ya cant put a value on a life no matter what age. Whether the governments in any country believes in the current agenda is only guessing. Whether they know more than they let on is another question. It would be political suicide for them to put a value on life and put the economy first. Unfortunatly they may have done so as the cat was well out of the bag before there was any reaction. Life will go on. We will get over it we will come out the other side. But if anyone wants to be the one who puts a € ahead of the lives of his/her people then they will be the one remembered in 80 years time like a small vocal moustached fella was back then.

As long as you know it's not completely as straightforward as that.
There's been suicides just from the anxiety of people thinking they may get the worst effects of this.
Normality is what people want to get back to.

I know what you're saying and I don't envy any government dealing with this ****show.

CloughCasey1 · 31-03-2020 11:15PM

Say my name wrote: »

As long as you know it's not completely as straightforward as that.
There's been suicides just from the anxiety of people thinking they may get the worst effects of this.
Normality is what people want to get back to.

I know what you're saying and I don't envy any government dealing with this ****show.

We all have to deal with this. More will be affected than others. My job involves going into people's homes. It's not going to be the same for a long time. The last 3 weeks before Friday were a balls getting work scheduled. But i think of the homeless famlies living in hotels and being couped up in a box hour after hour and day after day. Now that is hell on earth. At least i can work away for a few more weeks doing paperwork and plenty of farming to do. There is always someone else worse off. Restrictions will be slowly lifted after 6 weeks. That's 18billion cost to the government in 6 weeks approx. They gave the banks a massive 55billion with the stroke of a pen 12 years ago and then the banks put the foot to our throats for more money since then without any compassion. Why shouldn't the workers of this country be looked after for a few months and hopefully be able to spend this money in the economy from then on. It's the people of a country that is its economy not it's monetary value.

yosemitesam1 · 01-04-2020 08:27AM

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

We all have to deal with this. More will be affected than others. My job involves going into people's homes. It's not going to be the same for a long time. The last 3 weeks before Friday were a balls getting work scheduled. But i think of the homeless famlies living in hotels and being couped up in a box hour after hour and day after day. Now that is hell on earth. At least i can work away for a few more weeks doing paperwork and plenty of farming to do. There is always someone else worse off. Restrictions will be slowly lifted after 6 weeks. That's 18billion cost to the government in 6 weeks approx. They gave the banks a massive 55billion with the stroke of a pen 12 years ago and then the banks put the foot to our throats for more money since then without any compassion. Why shouldn't the workers of this country be looked after for a few months and hopefully be able to spend this money in the economy from then on. It's the people of a country that is its economy not it's monetary value.

The point I was making was that there'll be less money for healthcare, housing crises etc going forward if we spend it all now.
Is triage immoral compared to dealing with things on a first come first served basis? Instead of being in control focusing only on the now is just diverting the tough choices out of your hands by not making these decisions.
If more years are lost off future lives due to reduced resources than are saved now, was it a worthwhile exercise?

Reggie. · 01-04-2020 08:36AM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

The point I was making was that there'll be less money for healthcare, housing crises etc going forward if we spend it all now.
Is triage immoral compared to dealing with things on a first come first served basis? Instead of being in control focusing only on the now is just diverting the tough choices out of your hands by not making these decisions.
If more years are lost off future lives due to reduced resources than are saved now, was it a worthwhile exercise?

I know in other European countries that you will get reduced treatment if over a certain age. Could happen here too if this persists

Coronavirus Pandemic Information- Local and Worldwide

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