Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 04:20PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Your under no obligation and his posting style is needlessly agressive and undeserving of such

He/she knows full well,but is taking piss outta you,truely vile behaviour tbh

Please quote my aggressive posting?

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 04:23PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He thinks he is taking the piss...lets see now if he deflects or engages.

What am I deflecting? I posted about the North. You have posted a load of ranting and raving with no substance

Very similar to other day when a simple question about which other parties are currently working with SF, you gave the exact same response, ranting, raving and caps lock. Initially I thought the caps lock was your keyboad but I am starting to think you have a bigger issue

Put these random words together and its the best description, toys, pram, out, throw.....if you have difficulty reading them, if you ask nicely I cam put them all in caps!! but only if you ask nicely

HerrKuehn · 31-03-2020 04:26PM

Do you think people would be willing to pay more tax for better health service/social housing?
In Germany, someone on 18k would pay about 4k in income taxes. Would people be willing to do that here?

I think the water charges showed us that many people don't want to pay anything for any improvement. I paid it myself, I live in DLR and I don't really expect to have any issues with the water supply. I thought it would be a good idea to invest in water infrastructure so that the issues that exist in other parts of the country could be fixed.

Politicians in Ireland generally follow a path of least resistance. They don't want to make any difficult decisions.

Sinn Fein specifically seems to have held 2 general ideas:

1) Tax high earners more

2) Magic money tree
- currently apple
- 800bn-1trillion in untaxed oil/gas (2012) https://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/26417
- fish (2009), apparently the EU stole 200bn worth of fish from us.

31-03-2020 04:27PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Please quote my aggressive posting?

If you dont think hounding people for links,when they arent obligied to, (no mind havin meltdown over someone using caps in their post) is agressive,

Well i suppose we will just have to agree to disagree

HerrKuehn · 31-03-2020 04:27PM

Also, it is unusual where a party has never been in government in one state, but has a track record in another state that we can look at. It must be unique. Anyone know of any other examples?

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2020 04:28PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What am I deflecting? I posted about the North. You have posted a load of ranting and raving with no substance

Very similar to other day when a simple question about which other parties are currently working with SF gave the exact same response

Put these random words together and its the best description, toys, pram, out, throw.....if you have difficulty reading them, if you ask nicely I cam put them all in caps!! but only if you ask nicely

Let's break this post down.

What am I deflecting? I posted about the North. You have posted a load of ranting and raving with no substance

Set-up a notion that somebody is ranting. They aren't of course, they are using caps for emphasis...in the hope that the poster will answer.

Very similar to other day when a simple question about which other parties are currently working with SF gave the exact same response

Here we have the predicted 'deflection'.

Put these random words together and its the best description, toys, pram, out, throw.....if you have difficulty reading them, if you ask nicely I cam put them all in caps!! but only if you ask nicely

And back to setting up the notion that somebody is ranting. I.E. MORE deflection.

Cheers Shefwedfan, my afternoon got better!

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 04:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If you dont think hounding people for links,when they arent obligied to, (no mind havin meltdown over someone using caps in their post) is agressive,

Well i suppose we will just have to agree to disagree

Do you understand that using caps in a post means the person is shouting at you.

So you call me rude and vile for pulling someone up who thinks it is ok to constantly shout at someone on a post?

Personally, shouting at people, in real life or on the internet is what I would describe as rude. Other words I would use but I am far to polite.

rdwight · 31-03-2020 04:38PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, a deal was done and the DUP walked away, they came back a year later and got a better deal from their perspective.

This was all about an Irish Language Act, which Sinn Fein never got, it reminds me of the years they spent bombing people for a united Ireland which they never got and ultimately had to admit defeat over. Will they ever learn?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Gosh...I can feel the pain in that post.

Never an inch blanch...NEVER an inch.

Yes... But is he/she not right?

rdwight · 31-03-2020 04:41PM

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Also, it is unusual where a party has never been in government in one state, but has a track record in another state that we can look at. It must be unique. Anyone know of any other examples?

Socialist Unty Party/Party of Democratic Socialism in Germany?

To be fair to SF, does three years of petulant abstention count as a track record?

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 04:43PM

rdwight wrote: »

Yes... But is he/she not right?

Oh they are right, 100% right

31-03-2020 04:46PM

rdwight wrote: »

Socialist Unty Party/Party of Democratic Socialism in Germany?

To be fair to SF, does three years of petulant abstention count as a track record?

It's far far more than just the three years they walked away for.

Their record since they entered power sharing is dismal, at governance.

NI has the worst NHS waiting lists, very small private sector economy/highly state sponsored economy and most seriously, one of the highest suicide rates in the world.

This is what SF in power looks like. It isn't some panacea for all that ails us.

(All the above can be applied to the DUP btw)

reg114 · 31-03-2020 04:56PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Just on the flights.....this was mentioned by Simon Harris, as we are part of Europe and the whole point of Europe is free travel the shutting down of borders would be a huge deal. This is part of been a member of the EU

If I remember the governement told people not to travel to Cheltenham/etc....are we saying now the government should be responsible because a load of people are gobs**ts? is that not called a nanny state where they cannot allow the general population to make decision on their own?

Do you really want a country where the government tell you when and where you can travel???? before you say it, even today if you want you can go and get a flight, if you can find an flight that is

Individual freedoms and civil liberties must come second to public health in a pandemic, that has to be irrefutable. Every hour spent prevaricating a month ago will have led to lives lost today. Your argument regarding membership of the EU being a barrier to our closing of our borders doesn't hold up as there was no unilateral decision to close Europe's borders enmasse, in fact only 9 eu countries chose to close borders on the 16th Marchand and not the 27 members which constitute the EU.

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2020 04:58PM

rdwight wrote: »

Yes... But is he/she not right?

He is right, if he is a DUP supporter.

Otherwise, it is much more nunaced than that. Progress was never achieved in a fait accompli in northern Ireland.

But feel free to compare and contrast the rights available to a cross section in NI before the Executive was collapsed and those available after.

31-03-2020 04:59PM

reg114 wrote: »

Individual freedoms and civil liberties must come second to public health in a pandemic, that has to be irrefutable. Every hour spent prevaricating a month ago will have led to lives lost today. Your argument regarding membership of the EU being a barrier to our closing of our borders doesn't hold up as there was no unilateral decision to close Europe's borders enmasse, in fact only 9 eu countries chose to close borders on the 16th Marchand and not the 27 members which constitute the EU.

Be careful how far you go giving away freedom for society's good. The same argument backed up internment, backed up torture and a 1000 other terrible things in the not very distant past.

Any restriction on human or individual rights needs to be carefully considered.

31-03-2020 04:59PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Do you understand that using caps in a post means the person is shouting at you.

So you call me rude and vile for pulling someone up who thinks it is ok to constantly shout at someone on a post?

Except you didnt,you had a meltdown over preceived keyboard mal-function

Personally, shouting at people, in real life or on the internet is what I would describe as rude. Other words I would use but I am far to polite.

Sure us them.away,i dont mind....i like to see chaos :pac:

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 05:15PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Except you didnt,you had a meltdown over preceived keyboard mal-function

Jizique · 31-03-2020 05:16PM

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Do you think people would be willing to pay more tax for better health service/social housing?
In Germany, someone on 18k would pay about 4k in income taxes. Would people be willing to do that here?

I think the water charges showed us that many people don't want to pay anything for any improvement. I paid it myself, I live in DLR and I don't really expect to have any issues with the water supply. I thought it would be a good idea to invest in water infrastructure so that the issues that exist in other parts of the country could be fixed.

Politicians in Ireland generally follow a path of least resistance. They don't want to make any difficult decisions.

Sinn Fein specifically seems to have held 2 general ideas:

1) Tax high earners more

2) Magic money tree
- currently apple
- 800bn-1trillion in untaxed oil/gas (2012) https://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/26417
- fish (2009), apparently the EU stole 200bn worth of fish from us.

Ah, fish - the UKIPpers of Ireland

thomasdylan · 31-03-2020 05:26PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

Nope. The issue with the health system is the vested interests are buddies with FFG. The consultants that rub shoulders with FGers and FFers down the golf club and that send their kids to the same schools.

I think the chip on your shoulder is affecting what you're seeing. NCHDs had their first strike in 2013 under Fine Gael and consultants had comfortably the biggest salary cuts of anyone in the PS post recession.

There's loads of doctors from working class backgrounds and most doctors would be more into GAA than golf now.

Even Sinn Fein have realised that attacking consultants doesn't work when there's 500 unfilled jobs.

Runaways · 31-03-2020 05:35PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Be careful how far you go giving away freedom for society's good. The same argument backed up internment, backed up torture and a 1000 other terrible things in the not very distant past.

Any restriction on human or individual rights needs to be carefully considered.

One of the heads of the Gardai just the other day said ‘we have to park human rights when it comes to pandemic crisis’

I’m for it in this instance but the temporary powers had better just be that. Or they soon will have real trouble on their hands as they go forward.

31-03-2020 05:36PM

Runaways wrote: »

One of the heads of the Gardai just the other day said ‘we have to park human rights when it comes to pandemic crisis’

I’m for it in this instance but the temporary powers had better just be that. Or they soon will have real trouble on their hands as they go forward.

There is a time limit on these temporary power...dont worry (afaik gaurds enforcement powers may be limited,but anyone want a good kick up the hole for acting maggot unnecessarly at the min)

Runaways · 31-03-2020 05:48PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is a time limit on these temporary power...dont worry (afaik gaurds enforcement powers may be limited,but anyone want a good kick up the hole for acting maggot unnecessarly at the min)

That’s what I mean. I wouldn’t want to be crossing one of them if I was even the worst little scrote right now.

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 05:59PM

Runaways wrote: »

One of the heads of the Gardai just the other day said ‘we have to park human rights when it comes to pandemic crisis’

I’m for it in this instance but the temporary powers had better just be that. Or they soon will have real trouble on their hands as they go forward.

Based on your lack of ability to deal with a TV license inspector, what exactly would you do to the Garda if the powers are not temporary?

blanch152 · 31-03-2020 06:11PM

Runaways wrote: »

One of the heads of the Gardai just the other day said ‘we have to park human rights when it comes to pandemic crisis’

I’m for it in this instance but the temporary powers had better just be that. Or they soon will have real trouble on their hands as they go forward.

You put that statement in bold in inverted commas which means you are quoting it as a direct quotation from the relevant Garda, so I assume you can provide a link to that exact statement.

If not, it you are paraphrasing, then it is another disingenuous post about the Gardai.

blanch152 · 31-03-2020 06:14PM

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Do you think people would be willing to pay more tax for better health service/social housing?
In Germany, someone on 18k would pay about 4k in income taxes. Would people be willing to do that here?

I think the water charges showed us that many people don't want to pay anything for any improvement. I paid it myself, I live in DLR and I don't really expect to have any issues with the water supply. I thought it would be a good idea to invest in water infrastructure so that the issues that exist in other parts of the country could be fixed.

Politicians in Ireland generally follow a path of least resistance. They don't want to make any difficult decisions.

Sinn Fein specifically seems to have held 2 general ideas:

1) Tax high earners more

2) Magic money tree
- currently apple
- 800bn-1trillion in untaxed oil/gas (2012) https://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/26417
- fish (2009), apparently the EU stole 200bn worth of fish from us.

I always love the fish one.

For a start, if it were true that the fish were the saviours of the Irish economy, about 20% of the population would have to be fishermen to collect all those fish. Have any of the muppets who proposed that back over the years thought about that?

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 06:18PM

blanch152 wrote: »

You put that statement in bold in inverted commas which means you are quoting it as a direct quotation from the relevant Garda, so I assume you can provide a link to that exact statement.

If not, it you are paraphrasing, then it is another disingenuous post about the Gardai.

Seemingly, we do not have to provide links anymore. According to the charter.

So we can make up any sort of sh*t and not get expected to get called out on it. :P Well that is according to some posters!!!

31-03-2020 06:20PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Seemingly, we do not have to provide links anymore. According to the charter.

So we can make up any sort of sh*t and not get expected to get called out on it. :P Well that is according to some posters!!!

These are the rules afaik

Your welcome to.call anyone out on it...but they arent obligied to provide a link (this isnt regarded as a serious forum,hence the lower standred accepted!)

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 06:20PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I always love the fish one.

For a start, if it were true that the fish were the saviours of the Irish economy, about 20% of the population would have to be fishermen to collect all those fish. Have any of the muppets who proposed that back over the years thought about that?

If we have 200bn worth of fish I am hitting the seas tomorrow

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2020 06:28PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Seemingly, we do not have to provide links anymore. According to the charter.

So we can make up any sort of sh*t and not get expected to get called out on it. :P Well that is according to some posters!!!

What did I make up in the post you lost your mind over?

I'll quote it, just to refresh your memory. Please, if you are just going to deflect away from it...don't embarrass yourself answering at all.

franciebrady wrote:

What is it you are contesting?

That a deal was done and the DUP walked away?

Why the DUP were able to walk away and no pressure was applied by Westminister?

That the SoS specifically pointed at the DUP as being the main block to a deal?

The list of rights that the people of Northern Ireland have now that they didn't have before?

TheCitizen · 31-03-2020 06:33PM

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Eh, you can't wish away previous utterings by SF - remember their proposal to cap public pay?

No?

Well, unfortunately for us many medics do. Likewise, their proposals for 70+% marginal rate of income tax, again it hasn't gone away you know - people still remember those things, especially when it comes time to move one's family back home.

I had to look that up.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-fein-proposes-100000-cap-for-public-sector-workers-26792427.html

It's no longer part of their fiscal policy so not sure what relevance there is in bringing it up now. As I said medics on high earnings won't vote SF, they never did, but that doesn't mean they will upsticks and emigrate with their families en masse if a modest tax was brought in on earnings over and above 150k

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

And it's not political leadership courage that's needed, it's electoral courage.

It's both that's needed.

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Finally, may of the parties have promises to deliver free GP care, single-tier health services, etc - seems only SF exepct to be able to recruit 500 GPs and several thousand nurses over the course of a single electoral cycle - and that is really concerning. Most parties regard the reform of the health sector as reqiuring at least a decade - only SF seem to think it will take shorter, despite what they've written in Better4Health.

Fair enough, we understand that Shinnernomics is based on magic money trees but throwing numbers around like 500 GPs just shows how utterly bonkers and dangerous they are - if the emphasis is on numbers then you are going to get reduced quality - it takes 10 years to train a GP - so answer me this given the age profile of our current cadre of GPs, how will SF grow the number of GPs in the country by, effecively 25%?

Likewise the number of nurses - about 3,800 nurses and midwives were registered for the first time in 2018 so SF envisages doubling the number of such registrations over the course of a Dail - how? And in reality a greater number would be needed to allow for retirements, departures from nursing etc

It takes 4 years to train a general nurse, so where are all these extra nurses coming from?

SF made lots of promises and yes they probably wouldn't deliver on all of them, but that's not much different than other parties.

Ok so now you're criticising SF for saying they have an aspiration to do things quicker than others. You're probably right it would take 10 years to bring in those changes, there's no harm in having an aspiration top do it quicker where possible is there?

Anyway, to repeat it's not just down to money, the political will needs to be there to bring about necessary reform in the health service and with FFG they've been in power since forever and time and time again they haven't taken the opportunity to do that, but you want to keep returning them to power time and time again and yet you're here complaining about inefficiencies in the health service. See that there is what is bonkers pal; folk like you who keep doing the same thing over and over again but expect a different result.

Sultan_of_Ping · 31-03-2020 06:58PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

I had to look that up.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-fein-proposes-100000-cap-for-public-sector-workers-26792427.html

It's no longer part of their fiscal policy so not sure what relevance there is in bringing it up now. As I said medics on high earnings won't vote SF, they never did, but that doesn't mean they will upsticks and emigrate with their families en masse if a modest tax was brought in on earnings over and above 150k

It's both that's needed.

SF made lots of promises and yes they probably wouldn't deliver on all of them, but that's not much different than other parties.

Ok so now you're criticising SF for saying they have an aspiration to do things quicker than others. You're probably right it would take 10 years to bring in those changes, there's no harm in having an aspiration top do it quicker where possible is there?

Anyway, to repeat it's not just down to money, the political will needs to be there to bring about necessary reform in the health service and with FFG they've been in power since forever and time and time again they haven't taken the opportunity to do that, but you want to keep returning them to power time and time again and yet you're here complaining about inefficiencies in the health service. See that there is what is bonkers pal; folk like you who keep doing the same thing over and over again but expect a different result.

So the answer to "how" is deflect, deflect deflect......bit like their taxation policy, their housing policy, their transport policy, even their social policy - it never stands up to even the most modest scrutiny. Which is pretty typical of most populist parties - throw from gurus around, make it sound plausible, then when they get called out deflect, blame the "elites" or the "vested interests" - a pretty classic failure dynamic

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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