Is it just me or have SF vanished?

reg114 · 31-03-2020 03:13PM

Runaways wrote: »

What is the aim here..make him look cutsie and relatable or even human?

Or leader like and workin hard

Either the way the fawning over him is nauseating

https://twitter.com/roisiningle/status/1244983488463417346?s=21

Leo is cementing his place in Irish history and his seat at the Reeling in the years table with this crisis. Leo has never turned down a photo op or the chance to look like a statesman and he's grabbed the current tumult with both hands. Leo might I add has never been anything better than an average politician and this current crisis has not changed my opinion in that regard.
I believe the government were guilty of not imposing restrictions early enough in this country. The main reason the Patricks day festivities were cancelled was because of the public outcry and certainly not because of any foresight.

The failure to cancel flights from italy at the first sign of the virus there was utterly perplexing. The fact that Liverpool fans were allowed to travel to watch Liverpool versus athletico was again nuts. The we had the Cheltenham fiasco. When the virus appeared in Italy, having been in China, it was only a matter of time before it landed on irish shores. The gov have been playing catch up from the start.

Dr Fauci, the only sane person in the Whitehouse and the top medic advising Trump has said, 'once you are reacting its already too late'. This sums up the Irish gov's response. Instead of of issuing a dictat which was very much the sensible thing to do, Leo asked people nicely to keep their distance etc etc .. cue hoards of people in parks, beaches and Glendalough. It was a shambles as the country went on an extended holiday.

Leo then changed tack, clearly got spooked, issued projections of 15000 cases by the end of March and the imposed the draconian restrictions on movement he should have imposed the minute Italy reported their first case. We are now at the end of March and the numbers of cases so far wont be anything near 15000, they may approach 4000. This is a welcome number. BUT ... how reflective is it of the true situation.

At the weekend we had Croke park testing facility and Park i Caoimh closed because they had run out of kits and this was only 1 week after the HSE changed their criteria for testing. Some people have been waiting up to 2 weeks to be tested and then waiting a week for results. Then throw in the chronic lack of PPE for medical staff and the fact that out of 40 countries in europe Ireland has the second lowest number of hospital beds per 100,000 citizens and you begin to see the picture. If Leo is going to spin the message when it suits him , he needs to be big enough to take the criticism on the chin when it is fully deserved.

It also cannot be overstated how much our location benefits us. An island off the western tip of Europe is a far far better place to be in a pandemic than landlocked on the continent. Our location kept the Romans and the Nazis out, it might just help stave off the worst of the Coronavirus too.

TheCitizen · 31-03-2020 03:13PM

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Worked in the health service for a lot of years and have family who still do (as part of the "vested interests") - the main obstacle, in my view, to meaningful structural reform of our health service is the parochialism of the electorate.

Sure, unions and vested interests are a significant issue but it may come as a surprise to many that the people who make up the "vested interests" want, in many cases, to do a good job and work in great facilities.

I've worked in the health sector as well and have family members still working in it. It doesn't come as a surprise that many workers in the health service would be happy to see changes that would bring about improvement in their working conditions and in outcomes for patients. So reforming the health service isn't an impossible task as some FGers on here have pathetically claimed, but it will take political courage and it will step on the toes of the vested interests and other stakeholders like insurance companies during the transition.

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

The problem is great health facilities require scale and you can't get scale in a provincial or county town in Ireland - which is why so much money is wasted building shiny new buildings that will never - and can't ever - deliver the type of services we need on a high quality basis.

Of course polticians and parties will tell you otherwise because there's no votes in being honest with people or showing leadership. Plus, shiny buildings provide great photo-ops and people are somehow comforted by their existence.

To be honest, I'd prefer a brilliant nurse and a gifted doctor in a prefab over a machine that goes ping in some edifice to pork-barrel politics. But that's just me.

Well that's yet another reason for the failure to tackle the ongoing problem in the health service namely parish pump politics, and it's FG and FF lead governments that have consistently failed to reform the health service and face down parish pump politics that is another impediment to progress. I would also throw in insurance companies and FG's penchant for privatisation in the past as a serious impediment to reform of the health sector.

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

As regards health policy, most of the parties' plans seem to be on a nodding acquaintance with reality - except for SF's. Like a lot of their policies they articulate the "what" very clearly but are in fantasy-land when it comes to the "how."

For example - "free GP care for all" is laudable, but where are we going to get all the extra GPs from? Likewise, "fully staffing the PCCs" - what does "staffing" mean? Which specialties are they talking about and where are those people going to come from?

I may be wrong but I don't get the impression there are tranches of unemployed medical professionals (for example the 3000+ nurses along with 500 GPs they say they will emloy) out there looking for jobs but maybe SF know better. So again, the idea that the recuirtment freeze should be lifted is a good one - but also irrelevant as it's not like there's thousands of doctors, nurses and allied health professionals out there kicking their heels looking for work.

Free GP care for all? Isn't that an FG long term goal as well? Or is it only a bad idea when SF propose it.

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

.....and the obvious suggestion is that some of those who emigrated might return. Some will, but why would the majority - especially when they see what SF have in store in their tax and public sector pay policies.

Nice round figures but as with all SF's policies, the numbers don't add up.

SF have proposed taxing income above 150k and part of the reason was to fund the introduction of Slainte Care which appears to have cross party support but implementing Slainte Care is a different matter than proposing it as we have seen before like when FG proposed a scheme called Universal Health Insurance when in opposition but shelved it when in government.

I've read elsewhere that the SF tax increase on earnings over 150k translates to someone earning 250K a year being asked to pay another 5k in tax. Yes FG argue that this will scare away Consultants for example who may be on those type of salaries, but will it? Will all the Consultants and others earning 250k a year upsticks and emigrate and bring their families with them for the sake of 5k a year? They mightn't be happy about it and won't vote for a party (like SF) that propose it but that doesn't mean they will emigrate.

Getting people to come back is a different question but there has been calls that there should be a stipulation that medics who train in this country should work in the Irish health system for a year or two as part of their education after qualifying. If they did that and got married and had kids and put down roots they might be less likely to emigrate but you can't stop them emigrating if they really want to.

Amazing that you make a post that brings up lots of reasonable criticisms of the health service in Ireland but then somehow turn your post into an attack on Sinn Féin when it's not SF that has held the reigns of power and control over government and over the health service in this country, it's Fianna Fail and Fine Gael that have been in that position between them since the foundation of the state.

Stark · 31-03-2020 03:14PM

Ooh, I can't wait till they start selling cute memorabilia of him to go with my Michael T Higgins cosies.

zoobizoo · 31-03-2020 03:18PM

Stark wrote: »

Ooh, I can't wait till they start selling cute memorabilia of him to go with my Michael T Higgins cosies.

Didn't IRA leader Gerry Adams write a cook book.

Very cute.

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 03:21PM

reg114 wrote: »

Leo is cementing his place in Irish history and his seat at the Reeling in the years table with this crisis. Leo has never turned down a photo op or the chance to look like a statesman and he's grabbed the current tumult with both hands. Leo might I add has never been anything better than an average politician and this current crisis has not changed my opinion in that regard.
I believe the government were guilty of not imposing restrictions early enough in this country. The main reason the Patricks day festivities were cancelled was because of the public outcry and certainly not because of any foresight.

The failure to cancel flights from italy at the first sign of the virus there was utterly perplexing. The fact that Liverpool fans were allowed to travel to watch Liverpool versus athletico was again nuts. The we had the Cheltenham fiasco. When the virus appeared in Italy, having been in China, it was only a matter of time before it landed on irish shores. The gov have been playing catch up from the start.

Dr Fauci, the only sane person in the Whitehouse and the top medic advising Trump has said, 'once you are reacting its already too late'. This sums up the Irish gov's response. Instead of of issuing a dictat which was very much the sensible thing to do, Leo asked people nicely to keep their distance etc etc .. cue hoards of people in parks, beaches and Glendalough. It was a shambles as the country went on an extended holiday.

Leo then changed tack, clearly got spooked, issued projections of 15000 cases by the end of March and the imposed the draconian restrictions on movement he should have imposed the minute Italy reported their first case. We are now at the end of March and the numbers of cases so far wont be anything near 15000, they may approach 4000. This is a welcome number. BUT ... how reflective is it of the true situation.

At the weekend we had Croke park testing facility and Park i Caoimh closed because they had run out of kits and this was only 1 week after the HSE changed their criteria for testing. Some people have been waiting up to 2 weeks to be tested and then waiting a week for results. Then throw in the chronic lack of PPE for medical staff and the fact that out of 40 countries in europe Ireland has the second lowest number of hospital beds per 100,000 citizens and you begin to see the picture. If Leo is going to spin the message when it suits him , he needs to be big enough to take the criticism on the chin when it is fully deserved.

It also cannot be overstated how much our location benefits us. An island off the western tip of Europe is a far far better place to be in a pandemic than landlocked on the continent. Our location kept the Romans and the Nazis out, it might just help stave off the worst of the Coronavirus too.

Just on the flights.....this was mentioned by Simon Harris, as we are part of Europe and the whole point of Europe is free travel the shutting down of borders would be a huge deal. This is part of been a member of the EU

If I remember the governement told people not to travel to Cheltenham/etc....are we saying now the government should be responsible because a load of people are gobs**ts? is that not called a nanny state where they cannot allow the general population to make decision on their own?

Do you really want a country where the government tell you when and where you can travel???? before you say it, even today if you want you can go and get a flight, if you can find an flight that is

TheCitizen · 31-03-2020 03:34PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Just on the flights.....this was mentioned by Simon Harris, as we are part of Europe and the whole point of Europe is free travel the shutting down of borders would be a huge deal. This is part of been a member of the EU

If I remember the governement told people not to travel to Cheltenham/etc....are we saying now the government should be responsible because a load of people are gobs**ts? is that not called a nanny state where they cannot allow the general population to make decision on their own?

Do you really want a country where the government tell you when and where you can travel???? before you say it, even today if you want you can go and get a flight, if you can find an flight that is

Did they tell people not to travel to Cheltenham? Maybe they did, I don't remember that.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51905129

Germany closed it's borders with France, Austria and Italy bar for commercial uses, so you're talking nonsense again pal.

Runaways · 31-03-2020 03:37PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Its twitter, the aim is to post sh***e and get likes. Nothing more.

You seem to think it is some source of official data.

Not sure why you are upset because someone posted about the Taoiseach has a mug on their desk. Are you that obsessed with Leo the kitten you monitor all tweets about him? :P

It seems to be working at getting the message across anyways.

Simon Harris last tweets for example are getting loads of likes and Go Simon! Doing amazing work! Tweets from all over the world it seems.

smurgen · 31-03-2020 03:39PM

Runaways wrote: »

It seems to be working at getting the message across anyways.

Simon Harris last tweets for example are getting loads of likes and Go Simon! Doing amazing work! Tweets from all over the world it seems.

https://twitter.com/DeckyPierce/status/1244945330858266629?s=19

TheCitizen · 31-03-2020 03:39PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ahh touched a nerve....a traveler as you call them as some sort of insult, would have better manners than I have seen from any of your posts

Rows Grower wrote: »

This post reminds me of a quote from Abraham Lincoln "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

:pac: That one really takes the biscuit. " Provo Fellow traveler" was a term coined by an FGer or was it an FFer (can't recall exactly but what's the difference anyway) when they were attacking SF being connected with the PIRA that were around more than 20 years ago. I don't think the phrase was meant to have anything to do with travelers at all:pac:

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2020 03:42PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I think I told you already but maybe you didnt get a chance, but your keyboard if f**ked now. More and more the caps lock key is getting stuck....need to buy a new one.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/northern-ireland-talks-latest-power-sharing-deal-stormont-sinn-fein-dup-a8893096.html

SF shut down over a language act, which according to the census in 2011 6% of the population said could speak it. 0.2% said it was their primary language. Yes it was critical to the country and of course was worth shutting down the government for 3 years over

No...the language Act was the last straw in a GFA process that had been stagnant for a few years.

Now, HAVE YOU HAD A LOOK AT WHO NEGOTIATED A DEAL?

2. WHO welched on that deal

3. WHO underscored that walkaway.

4. WHAT happened when the Tories were finally finished with the DUP and didn't need their support anymore? Clue - a deal was done AGAIN.

Then look at what the situation is NOW regarding rights that everyone else on these islands have.

THEN consider the possibility that you are probably the most mis-informrd poster on this forum, which is quite an achievement.

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 03:43PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

Did they tell people not to travel to Cheltenham? Maybe they did, I don't remember that.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51905129

Germany closed it's borders with France, Austria and Italy bar for commercial uses, so you're talking nonsense again pal.

Listen to the interview Simon Harris done in regards to the Italy match been cancelled. Which was done on 26th of Feb, article above is from 16th March, a lifetime in terms of this outbreak.

Based on your posts so far, you saying I am talking nonsense is a compliment, so thank you.

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 03:44PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No...the language Act was the last straw in a GFA process that had been stagnant for a few years.

Now, HAVE YOU HAD A LOOK AT WHO NEGOTIATED A DEAL?

2. WHO welched on that deal

3. WHO underscored that walkaway.

4. WHAT happened when the Tories were finally finished with the DUP and didn't need their support anymore? Clue - a deal was done AGAIN.

Then look at what the situation is NOW regarding rights that everyone else on these islands have.

THEN consider the possibility that you are probably the most mis-informrd poster on this forum, which is quite an achievement.

Sorry I refuse to read your posts till you fix that keyboard...

Also while mid rant, it would be worthwhile posting some sort of link to back up your point of view. Please note twitter is not accepted as a source of information

Thank you

P.S. that a few times you threw those toys out of the pram, someone will take them off you if you keep it up

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2020 03:47PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Sorry I refuse to read your posts till you fix that keyboard...

Is anybody surprised.

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 03:49PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is anybody surprised.

Keyboard fixed, thanks god

You did seem to hit the delete key when trying to quote my post. Unfortune accident was it?

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2020 03:55PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Keyboard fixed, thanks god

You did seem to hit the delete key when trying to quote my post. Unfortune accident was it?

I know you read the post...cannot refute the content and are now furiously trying to deflect. You have made my afternoon. Sipping a cuppa and relishing your discomfort.

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 03:59PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I know you read the post...cannot refute the content and are now furiously trying to deflect. You have made my afternoon. Sipping a cuppa and relishing your discomfort.

Ahh, it worked when I done it, it doesn't really for you when you spent the last few posts ranting and raving......:P:P...timing young padawan, its all about the timing

As I said before, it must really annoy you I am so good !!!

I will wait for one of those links backing up your rant! I am sure it is just about to arrive...........

P.S. I didn't read your post, too many caps, would suggest a child wrote it

blanch152 · 31-03-2020 04:00PM

Runaways wrote: »

What is the aim here..make him look cutsie and relatable or even human?

Or leader like and workin hard

Either the way the fawning over him is nauseating

https://twitter.com/roisiningle/status/1244983488463417346?s=21

I don't know, you are the only one who seem to think Twitter is a reliable place for news and information.

I consider Twitter to be even less informative than these boards.

31-03-2020 04:03PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I will wait for one of those links backing up your rant! I am sure it is just about to arrive...........

Tbf noone is under any obligation to provide links for any points on this forum

So you hounding people for them,is surely flying close to the sun in terms of rules

Or do rules not apply to you??

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2020 04:06PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ahh, it worked when I done it, it doesn't really for you when you spent the last few posts ranting and raving......:P:P...timing young padawan, its all about the timing

As I said before, it must really annoy you I am so good !!!

I will wait for one of those links backing up your rant! I am sure it is just about to arrive...........

P.S. I didn't read your post, too many caps, would suggest a child wrote it

What is it you are contesting?

That a deal was done and the DUP walked away?

Why the DUP were able to walk away and no pressure was applied by Westminister?

That the SoS specifically pointed at the DUP as being the main block to a deal?

The list of rights that the people of Northern Ireland have now that they didn't have before?

What is your font of knowledge lacking?

Runaways · 31-03-2020 04:07PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I don't know, you are the only one who seem to think Twitter is a reliable place for news and information.

I consider Twitter to be even less informative than these boards.

Leo and the two Simon’s preferred method of communicating?

Twitter.

It’s the only place we’ve heard Leo since his bathroom handryer impression on tele last week.

Are we to disregard their suddenly world famous tweets now?

Just take our advice from the oracles on here boards?

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2020 04:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbf noone is under any obligation to provide links for any points on this forum

So you hounding people for them,is surely flying close to the sun in terms of rules

Or do rules not apply to you??

Don't worry...I have no problem supplying links for what I said.

Shefwed needs to be educated it seems...good and all as they claim to be.

blanch152 · 31-03-2020 04:08PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What is it you are contesting?

That a deal was done and the DUP walked away?

Why the DUP were able to walk away and no pressure was applied by Westminister?

That the SoS specifically pointed at the DUP as being the main block to a deal?

The list of rights that the people of Northern Ireland have now that they didn't have before?

What is your font of knowledge lacking?

Yes, a deal was done and the DUP walked away, they came back a year later and got a better deal from their perspective.

This was all about an Irish Language Act, which Sinn Fein never got, it reminds me of the years they spent bombing people for a united Ireland which they never got and ultimately had to admit defeat over. Will they ever learn?

TheCitizen · 31-03-2020 04:09PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Listen to the interview Simon Harris done in regards to the Italy match been cancelled. Which was done on 26th of Feb, article above is from 16th March, a lifetime in terms of this outbreak.

Based on your posts so far, you saying I am talking nonsense is a compliment, so thank you.

:pac: You were saying us not shutting borders was an EU thing, the article above refers to Germany at the heart of the EU shutting its borders. Well done on illustrating still further that yet again you're talking nonsense.

31-03-2020 04:09PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Don't worry...I have no problem supplying links for what I said.

Shefwed needs to be educated it seems...good and all as they claim to be.

Your under no obligation and his posting style is needlessly agressive and undeserving of such

He/she knows full well,but is taking piss outta you,truely vile behaviour tbh

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2020 04:09PM

Runaways wrote: »

Leo and the two Simon’s preferred method of communicating?

Twitter.

This what you mean?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/varadkar-suggested-creating-anonymous-accounts-online-to-make-positive-comments-on-news-37275799.html

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2020 04:12PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, a deal was done and the DUP walked away, they came back a year later and got a better deal from their perspective.

This was all about an Irish Language Act, which Sinn Fein never got, it reminds me of the years they spent bombing people for a united Ireland which they never got and ultimately had to admit defeat over. Will they ever learn?

Gosh...I can feel the pain in that post.

Never an inch blanch...NEVER an inch.

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2020 04:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Your under no obligation and his posting style is needlessly agressive and undeserving of such

He/she knows full well,but is taking piss outta you,truely vile behaviour tbh

He thinks he is taking the piss...lets see now if he deflects or engages.

31-03-2020 04:13PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, a deal was done and the DUP walked away, they came back a year later and got a better deal from their perspective.

This was all about an Irish Language Act, which Sinn Fein never got, it reminds me of the years they spent bombing people for a united Ireland which they never got and ultimately had to admit defeat over. Will they ever learn?

Tbf what they got was as good as an irish language act in my eyes anyway??

Your inability to under stand nuance catches you out again....how is your green/FFFG coalition coming along?

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 04:14PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

:pac: You were saying us not shutting borders was an EU thing, the article above refers to Germany at the heart of the EU shutting its borders. Well done on illustrating still further that yet again you're talking nonsense.

Yes if you managed to read the post you posted, I know it is hard. They do mention the schengen agreement and Germany doesn't want to break it. That might have been a hint

It seems people do have issues with reading the articles they post

Sultan_of_Ping · 31-03-2020 04:17PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

I've worked in the health sector as well and have family members still working in it. It doesn't come as a surprise that many workers in the health service would be happy to see changes that would bring about improvement in their working conditions and in outcomes for patients. So reforming the health service isn't an impossible task as some FGers on here have pathetically claimed, but it will take political courage and it will step on the toes of the vested interests and other stakeholders like insurance companies during the transition.

Well that's yet another reason for the failure to tackle the ongoing problem in the health service namely parish pump politics, and it's FG and FF lead governments that have consistently failed to reform the health service and face down parish pump politics that is another impediment to progress. I would also throw in insurance companies and FG's penchant for privatisation in the past as a serious impediment to reform of the health sector.

Free GP care for all? Isn't that an FG long term goal as well? Or is it only a bad idea when SF propose it.

SF have proposed taxing income above 150k and part of the reason was to fund the introduction of Slainte Care which appears to have cross party support but implementing Slainte Care is a different matter than proposing it as we have seen before like when FG proposed a scheme called Universal Health Insurance when in opposition but shelved it when in government.

I've read elsewhere that the SF tax increase on earnings over 150k translates to someone earning 250K a year being asked to pay another 5k in tax. Yes FG argue that this will scare away Consultants for example who may be on those type of salaries, but will it? Will all the Consultants and others earning 250k a year upsticks and emigrate and bring their families with them for the sake of 5k a year? They mightn't be happy about it and won't vote for a party (like SF) that propose it but that doesn't mean they will emigrate.

Getting people to come back is a different question but there has been calls that there should be a stipulation that medics who train in this country should work in the Irish health system for a year or two as part of their education after qualifying. If they did that and got married and had kids and put down roots they might be less likely to emigrate but you can't stop them emigrating if they really want to.

Amazing that you make a post that brings up lots of reasonable criticisms of the health service in Ireland but then somehow turn your post into an attack on Sinn Féin when it's not SF that has held the reigns of power and control over government and over the health service in this country, it's Fianna Fail and Fine Gael that have been in that position between them since the foundation of the state.

Eh, you can't wish away previous utterings by SF - remember their proposal to cap public pay?

No?

Well, unfortunately for us many medics do. Likewise, their proposals for 70+% marginal rate of income tax, again it hasn't gone away you know - people still remember those things, especially when it comes time to move one's family back home.

And it's not political leadership courage that's needed, it's electoral courage.

Finally, may of the parties have promises to deliver free GP care, single-tier health services, etc - seems only SF exepct to be able to recruit 500 GPs and several thousand nurses over the course of a single electoral cycle - and that is really concerning. Most parties regard the reform of the health sector as reqiuring at least a decade - only SF seem to think it will take shorter, despite what they've written in Better4Health.

Fair enough, we understand that Shinnernomics is based on magic money trees but throwing numbers around like 500 GPs just shows how utterly bonkers and dangerous they are - if the emphasis is on numbers then you are going to get reduced quality - it takes 10 years to train a GP - so answer me this given the age profile of our current cadre of GPs, how will SF grow the number of GPs in the country by, effecively 25%?

Likewise the number of nurses - about 3,800 nurses and midwives were registered for the first time in 2018 so SF envisages doubling the number of such registrations over the course of a Dail - how? And in reality a greater number would be needed to allow for retirements, departures from nursing etc

It takes 4 years to train a general nurse, so where are all these extra nurses coming from?

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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