Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady · 30-03-2020 09:52PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I ask again, did you list to the point Ryan made? or just read the headline?

I listened to the speech he said it in..live...never again.

30-03-2020 09:55PM

aido79 wrote: »

It's a big step into reality going from the opposition benches into government as it is very easy to criticise a government when you're not the one making the hard decisions and getting the figures to add up. Big ideas always need to be followed up with details and I most parties in opposition are guilty of criticising the party in power when they know they themselves wouldn't do much better if they were given the opportunity to have a go at making things better

One thing is for sure though. Sinn Fein's manifesto has gotten a severe dose of coronavirus and is currently somewhere between life support and the cemetery. Their promises are worth nothing after this is over.

Their promises were worth nothing anyhow, tbh.

The sad reality is most of the serious problems Ireland faces are deeply entrenched. If they had easy solutions we would have used them by now.

What is interesting though is we know SF's politics don't work. West Belfast is one of the poorest places in Europe after years of their "governance". Their track record in NI in terms of actual governance is pretty poor (high state dependant employment, high homelessness, long waiting lists in the NHS, high suicide rate etc)

People who vote for SF expecting any sort of economic success (or, tbh, social cohesion) doesn't appear to be voting rationally.

Runaways · 30-03-2020 10:07PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Did you see that on Twitter or Facebook?

Or is it just the latest allegation?

Forbes actually. Governor Cuomo. Small state called New York. You might have heard of it

Ffs
Blanch read before posting

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/03/30/cuomo-says-ventilators-cost-50000-up-from-20000-as-states-compete-for-the-devices/

Stark · 30-03-2020 10:12PM

It annoys me when people present it as a dichotomy of "left-wing/socialist good, right-wing/capitalism bad" or vica versa.

The increase in ventilator prices is down to Trump's ****wittery making states compete against each other for ventilators despite them all being part of the same country. Not just a capitalism vs socialism issue.

30-03-2020 10:15PM

Stark wrote: »

It annoys me when people present it as a dichotomy of "left-wing/socialist good, right-wing/capitalism bad" or vica versa.

The increase in ventilator prices is down to Trump's ****wittery making states compete against each other for ventilators despite them all being part of the same country. Not just a capitalism vs socialism issue.

Indeed, a large medical device company in Galway (medtronic) just released their patents for ventilators for open source. That's an astonishing step for a capitalist company to make.

Shefwedfan · 30-03-2020 10:38PM

It’s hard to quantify why the increase in price, I found another article which mentioned a small company made them and they would have to scale
Up to keep up with demand, so probably new equipment, new offices etc....Someone has to pay for it and because of the stupidity of Trump let him pay

Mrfacts · 30-03-2020 10:59PM

Would it not be common sense to use the Apple tax money and level us out. Exceptional circumstances call for exceptional measures. It should at least be debated. If FF/FG took it in the first place instead of refusing it and dragging it through the courts. We would be in a much better position. Now they even have the brass neck to say they will talking with everyone except SF the arrogance is dispiciable, no wonder they won't talk with SF as they are the only party with the scruples to even bring up this issue with them.

Shefwedfan · 30-03-2020 11:19PM

Mrfacts wrote: »

Would it not be common sense to use the Apple tax money and level us out. Exceptional circumstances call for exceptional measures. It should at least be debated. If FF/FG took it in the first place instead of refusing it and dragging it through the courts. We would be in a much better position. Now they even have the brass neck to say they will talking with everyone except SF the arrogance is dispiciable, no wonder they won't talk with SF as they are the only party with the scruples to even bring up this issue with them.

How much is the Apple money?

30-03-2020 11:22PM

Mrfacts wrote: »

Would it not be common sense to use the Apple tax money and level us out. Exceptional circumstances call for exceptional measures. It should at least be debated. If FF/FG took it in the first place instead of refusing it and dragging it through the courts. We would be in a much better position. Now they even have the brass neck to say they will talking with everyone except SF the arrogance is dispiciable, no wonder they won't talk with SF as they are the only party with the scruples to even bring up this issue with them.

That 13 billion, even if we were to claim it, would have to be divided between the other 27 (at the time) EU member states. Most of it would go to the larger countries where Apple had most sales, afaik. If we did touch it, we would be allowing the EU a say in our tax affairs, so it's a potential minor gain for long terms loss.

SF, if they are to be consistent, will never let the EU meddle in our taxes as to do so would be ceding further power to the EU. Course, SF are an inconsistent party, so they will go with whatever way the wind is blowing.

30-03-2020 11:27PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It’s hard to quantify why the increase in price, I found another article which mentioned a small company made them and they would have to scale
Up to keep up with demand, so probably new equipment, new offices etc....Someone has to pay for it and because of the stupidity of Trump let him pay

There is also the opportunity costs of transferring production. Presumably whatever the company was originally making was profitable (or they wouldn't make it). Every ventilator they make means they have less capacity to make whatever it is they already made. Obviously, in times of national crisis, these shouldn't be considerations, but Trump, for his own weird reasons, refused to give the orders allowing companies transfer production on a war time basis. Companies can only be altruistic to a point.

blanch152 · 30-03-2020 11:54PM

Mrfacts wrote: »

Would it not be common sense to use the Apple tax money and level us out. Exceptional circumstances call for exceptional measures. It should at least be debated. If FF/FG took it in the first place instead of refusing it and dragging it through the courts. We would be in a much better position. Now they even have the brass neck to say they will talking with everyone except SF the arrogance is dispiciable, no wonder they won't talk with SF as they are the only party with the scruples to even bring up this issue with them.

Last year we took in €10.9 billion in corporation tax.

The Apple money was around €13billion, just over 1 years take. Now if we had done what you said, and multinationals upped and left Ireland because they could no longer rely on our taxation bona fixes, we would have lost €6-7 billion of that corporation tax, another couple of billion on income tax and the guts of another billion to be spent on social welfare, not to mention VAT and trickle down in the economy. We would have been worse off within 18 months.

tikkahunter · 31-03-2020 02:29AM

blanch152 wrote: »

Last year we took in €10.9 billion in corporation tax.

The Apple money was around €13billion, just over 1 years take. Now if we had done what you said, and multinationals upped and left Ireland because they could no longer rely on our taxation bona fixes, we would have lost €6-7 billion of that corporation tax, another couple of billion on income tax and the guts of another billion to be spent on social welfare, not to mention VAT and trickle down in the economy. We would have been worse off within 18 months.

I have worked for multinationals for the past 22 years , i have also been made redundant by them. What these SF loons seem to fail to understand is that as soon as the shareholders feel any pinch then bang stroke of an accountants pen and your gone. Look at All the multinationals in Dublin alone , your talking 20,000 directly out of work then all the local businesses and suppliers go with them . Its not rocket science they are here to pay less tax and the upshot of that is massive employment for the country.

Eamonn8448 · 31-03-2020 02:57AM

tikkahunter wrote: »

I have worked for multinationals for the past 22 years , i have also been made redundant by them. What these SF loons seem to fail to understand is that as soon as the shareholders feel any pinch then bang stroke of an accountants pen and your gone. Look at All the multinationals in Dublin alone , your talking 20,000 directly out of work then all the local businesses and suppliers go with them . Its not rocket science they are here to pay less tax and the upshot of that is massive employment for the country.

What you "loons" fail to understand is one time SF stood up for the ordinary man/woman , fought you self entitled brats , look at the crash in 2008 and tell me was it us ordinary hard working folk who caused it or God forbid the likes of you folk , i dont support SF no more but i ****ing dare you come call me a loon to my face and your opinion can go with your nose , all the likes of you are good for is cheap potshots , people want change - probably makes the likes of you uncomfortable. before you go on a rant ,them were real bullets where i was and we will go again if the situation demands it , personally twats like you are a waste of a bullet and again i state i do not vote or support SF

tikkahunter · 31-03-2020 03:08AM

Eamonn8448 wrote: »

What you "loons" fail to understand is one time SF stood up for the ordinary man/woman , fought you self entitled brats , look at the crash in 2008 and tell me was it us ordinary hard working folk who caused it or God forbid the likes of you folk , i dont support SF no more but i ****ing dare you come call me a loon to my face and your opinion can go with your nose , all the likes of you are good for is cheap potshots , people want change - probably makes the likes of you uncomfortable. before you go on a rant ,them were real bullets where i was and we will go again if the situation demands it , personally twats like you are a waste of a bullet and again i state i do not vote or support SF

On grandpas cough medicine???

Eamonn8448 · 31-03-2020 03:13AM

tikkahunter wrote: »

On grandpas cough medicine???

my grandfather is long dead and he played his part too , one day lad smart arses like you shall get their just deserts , its a small island !

tikkahunter · 31-03-2020 03:20AM

Eamonn8448 wrote: »

my grandfather is long dead and he played his part too , one day lad smart arses like you shall get their just deserts , its a small island !

Go read my post again and maybe have a think before you go making threats again while locked . Ranting like an aul dipso down the pub.

Sultan_of_Ping · 31-03-2020 07:26AM

Mrfacts wrote: »

Would it not be common sense to use the Apple tax money and level us out. Exceptional circumstances call for exceptional measures. It should at least be debated. If FF/FG took it in the first place instead of refusing it and dragging it through the courts. We would be in a much better position. Now they even have the brass neck to say they will talking with everyone except SF the arrogance is dispiciable, no wonder they won't talk with SF as they are the only party with the scruples to even bring up this issue with them.

Why is it that some people have such a tough time understanding the principle of escrow? The money is not there to be taken......it's outside our power and jurisdiction to do so. It's also, if the case goes against us, not all going to be ours.

And the court case was important for the simple reason that it'll sort out what role, if any, the Commission have in setting/influencing Member States' tax policy - an important and wide ranging point, but as usual SF suggest very complex problems have very simple solutions and people swallow their nonsense.

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 07:52AM

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

Why is it that some people have such a tough time understanding the principle of escrow? The money is not there to be taken......it's outside our power and jurisdiction to do so. It's also, if the case goes against us, not all going to be ours.

And the court case was important for the simple reason that it'll sort out what role, if any, the Commission have in setting/influencing Member States' tax policy - an important and wide ranging point, but as usual SF suggest very complex problems have very simple solutions and people swallow their nonsense.

They don’t understand and then you have gobsh*ts likeMary Lou going on about it, either she is too thick to understand the details or she thinks the public is too thick to understand

Either not a great trait for a so called potential Taoiseach

Nitrogan · 31-03-2020 08:16AM

The US has Trump fans, the UK has Brexiters and Ireland has Sinn Feiners.

Every country has them unfortunately. Next time someone's going on about how great our education system is take a look at how many people voted for SF in the last election. That's a damning failure of the system, especially as we don't hold back in calling Americans thick for voting for Trump.

Runaways · 31-03-2020 08:19AM

Nitrogan wrote: »

The US has Trump fans, the UK has Brexiters and Ireland has Sinn Feiners.

Every country has them unfortunately. Next time someone's going on about how great our education system is take a look at how many people voted for SF in the last election. That's a damning failure of the system, especially as we don't hold back in calling Americans thick for voting for Trump.

That’s up for the most ridiculous daily mail bs post of the year. Well done.

Morning all. Remember to keep washing your hands and social distance. If you haven’t at least thought of running into the sea to getaway from your family or housemates by now you’re doing better than me.

Wanderer78 · 31-03-2020 08:23AM

Shefwedfan wrote:

Either not a great trait for a so called potential Taoiseach

She ll never be Taoiseach, sf may never be in government

Nitrogan wrote:

Every country has them unfortunately. Next time someone's going on about how great our education system is take a look at how many people voted for SF in the last election. That's a damning failure of the system, especially as we don't hold back in calling Americans thick for voting for Trump.

I gave sf a strong vote, and I believe I've something upstairs, I will agree though, our educational system has serious problems, but it's probably not the worst in the world. It's understandable why many Americans voted for trump, and will vote for him again, possibly/probably re electing him

Shefwedfan · 31-03-2020 08:27AM

Nitrogan wrote: »

The US has Trump fans, the UK has Brexiters and Ireland has Sinn Feiners.

Every country has them unfortunately. Next time someone's going on about how great our education system is take a look at how many people voted for SF in the last election. That's a damning failure of the system, especially as we don't hold back in calling Americans thick for voting for Trump.

The problem is the Trump type voter are now outnumbering the rest of us, then it will be a mess

Wanderer78 · 31-03-2020 08:29AM

Shefwedfan wrote:

The problem is the Trump type voter are now outnumbering the rest of us, then it will be a mess

The American political mess is slightly different than ours, don't worry about it, we probably won't experience it here, ffg are well in control, possibly indefinitely

Yurt2 · 31-03-2020 08:50AM

Nitrogan wrote: »

The US has Trump fans, the UK has Brexiters and Ireland has Sinn Feiners.

Every country has them unfortunately. Next time someone's going on about how great our education system is take a look at how many people voted for SF in the last election. That's a damning failure of the system, especially as we don't hold back in calling Americans thick for voting for Trump.

With some of the mouthbreathing guff coming out of the traditional party loyalists (particularly the you know whos) in this thread and others, I wouldn't be so sure about that assertion. Many of them are operating off a thin veneer of respecitibilty and you don't have to dig too far before you get some kooky outbursts about who they think should be in charge and why.

TheCitizen · 31-03-2020 09:22AM

aido79 wrote: »

It's a big step into reality going from the opposition benches into government as it is very easy to criticise a government when you're not the one making the hard decisions and getting the figures to add up. Big ideas always need to be followed up with details and I most parties in opposition are guilty of criticising the party in power when they know they themselves wouldn't do much better if they were given the opportunity to have a go at making things better

One thing is for sure though. Sinn Fein's manifesto has gotten a severe dose of coronavirus and is currently somewhere between life support and the cemetery. Their promises are worth nothing after this is over.

It’s not just about money though. There’s also political intent political will involved. You have to take on vested interests to change and as I said one thing is for sure and that is that Fine Gael won’t be doing that. As Micheál Martin said pre election “they’ve been in there too long etc.. it’s time for a change etc.”

He said he wouldn’t go in with SF either but then SF ended up on one seat less and a bigger vote share than FF and Micheál and his buddies decided it’s better to put FG back in as FF will be the slightly larger partner in an arrangement with them. It’s politics but not necessarily “in the National interest”.

TheCitizen · 31-03-2020 09:42AM

Nitrogan wrote: »

The US has Trump fans, the UK has Brexiters and Ireland has Sinn Feiners.

Every country has them unfortunately. Next time someone's going on about how great our education system is take a look at how many people voted for SF in the last election. That's a damning failure of the system, especially as we don't hold back in calling Americans thick for voting for Trump.

Ah, someone’s been listening to Pat Kenny. Pat and other MSM commentators like Miriam FF O’Callaghan tried that line. SF are many things; they are not reactionary, race card playing right wingers like Trump and the Brexiteers. If you’re looking for a home for that type of politics you’ll be more at home in Fine Gael, see Phil Hogan or Charlie Tanaghan’s dad for examples.

TheCitizen · 31-03-2020 09:46AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The American political mess is slightly different than ours, don't worry about it, we probably won't experience it here, ffg are well in control, possibly indefinitely

LOL so anyone but FFG is the Trump option. The old self preservation society (FFG) are hanging in there for now right enough. Their grip on Irish society and use and abuse of it for their own ends is slipping though.

Rows Grower · 31-03-2020 09:49AM

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/doherty-seeks-central-bank-assurance-on-customer-protection-991104.html

Runaways · 31-03-2020 09:52AM

Trying to throw SF who have an open border pro immigrant stance last I checked, and their definition of nationalism in with brexiters and trump cultists definition of nationalism, really shows you know nothing at all about anything of each, Nitrogan.

That’s a really laughable and ignorant tabloid take and even the worst of our gutter press didn’t go there. Despite that take being espoused by some far right talking heads in the UK who tried and failed to make the connection stick.

Didn’t even read much of it from the more feeble minded regulars here.

31-03-2020 09:53AM

TheCitizen wrote: »

It’s not just about money though. There’s also political intent political will involved. You have to take on vested interests to change and as I said one thing is for sure and that is that Fine Gael won’t be doing that. As Micheál Martin said pre election “they’ve been in there too long etc.. it’s time for a change etc.”

He said he wouldn’t go in with SF either but then SF ended up on one seat less and a bigger vote share than FF and Micheál and his buddies decided it’s better to put FG back in as FF will be the slightly larger partner in an arrangement with them. It’s politics but not necessarily “in the National interest”.

You couldn't possibly look at how SF have "governed" in NI and think they are who we need to run this country, at least, not rationally.

NI remains one of the poorest places in Europe, it has high state dependant employment, a homelessness crisis and (most seriously imo) a suicide crisis.

SF are not to blame for all of the above, but they have done sweet **** all to solve any of the above. If anything, when faced with Brexit and the suicide crisis they collapsed the assembly. Bizarre. Genuinely bizarre.

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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