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EU to recommend abolishing DST

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    #1202
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    highdef wrote: »
    Around the winter solstice, this would be the case. Can't disagree there however it's later in the winter when it becomes more beneficial. With all year round Irish Standard Time, sunset at the end of February would be about 19:00 in Dublin.....add about 10 minutes to that if you are in the southwest or west of the country. With a 19:00 sunset, you'd have about 20 minutes or so of usable light as long as it's not overcast. To me, that is a massive increase of post-work light and longer time for outdoor activities at the weekends/when not working.

    By mid March, you've another 30 minutes of daylight available with sunset around about 19:30 with usable daylight heading for 20:00. At this stage the weather is usually picking up somewhat and going for walks, gardening, outdoor painting, etc are tasks that become more regular. This is still about a fortnight before the clocks would be changing and I know from my own point of view, every week counts greatly as I await the longer evenings from late March onwards.

    Anyone who truly wants to do outdoor exercise doesn’t let darkness stop them. Colour me dubious that we’ll see any winter (or early spring and late autumn) outdoor exercising upswing if we go to year-round summertime. A family member runs a rural walking group and they go out every day of the week in varying numbers right throughout the year and often in darkness. I loved cycling in the dark myself. Very refreshing.

    As for outdoor tasks, the best compromise to maximise daylight whilst not having those horribly dark midwinter mornings would be to move the clock change dates a bit to earlier and later in the year respectively, not do away with them entirely. As said earlier, I envy anyone for whom changing clocks is a big problem in their life.


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    #1203
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »
    No, I don't. I'm sure you can look it up if you're interested.

    No sign of it online.

    In my view it's not a credible result and I wouldn't be changing that view unless I'm convinced otherwise.


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    #1204
    highdef
    Registered Users Posts: 6,150 ✭✭✭highdef


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    Anyone who truly wants to do outdoor exercise doesn’t let darkness stop them. Colour me dubious that we’ll see any winter (or early spring and late autumn) outdoor exercising upswing if we go to year-round summertime. A family member runs a rural walking group and they go out every day of the week in varying numbers right throughout the year and often in darkness. I loved cycling in the dark myself. Very refreshing.

    I also live in a rural area with no footpaths, narrow roads where two cars can only pass at certain spots and of course no lighting. Walking the 5km around the local loop in darkness is far from pleasant and there is the added danger from road vehicles (I've a torch and a high viz at all times and dog has a collar with flashing lights so in theory it should not be an issue). Looking at my average steps per day, month by month, it's very clear that the extended daylight makes a big difference in how much I walk or am at least on foot doing gardening or whatever outside.

    Average Steps per day:

    Jan 2018: 8114
    Feb 2018: 9097
    March 2018: 9135
    April 2018: 13358
    May 2018: 14509
    June 2018: 12807
    July 2018: 10738
    Aug 2018: 11452
    Sep 2018: 11125
    Oct 2018: 10881
    Nov 2018: 8993
    Dec 2018: 9230
    Jan 2019: 8830
    Feb 2019: 11428
    March 2019: 10598
    April 2019: 12307
    May 2019: 12414
    June 2019: 13480
    July 2019: 14277
    Aug 2019: 14245
    Sep 2019: 11433
    Oct 2019: 9375
    Nov 2019: 9539

    Now that's a VERY obvious pattern going on there, purely due to the lack of available daylight meaning my post work walks on weekdays are far shorter due to lack of usable light in the area where I live. A large percentage of the people living in my village walk to 5km "loop" every day but this drops off dramatically during weekday evenings when it's dark when people get home from work and I'm pretty sure that this is repeated countless times in other rural communities.

    I spoke with a local farmer about the clocks and he said it wouldn't bother him as it's dark for several hours after he starts his day anyway and it doesn't cause him any issues whatsoever.


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    #1205
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    highdef wrote: »
    Now that's a VERY obvious pattern going on there,


    Yeah, TV is shíte in the summer :D


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    #1206
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    highdef wrote: »
    I also live in a rural area with no footpaths, narrow roads where two cars can only pass at certain spots and of course no lighting. Walking the 5km around the local loop in darkness is far from pleasant and there is the added danger from road vehicles (I've a torch and a high viz at all times and dog has a collar with flashing lights so in theory it should not be an issue). Looking at my average steps per day, month by month, it's very clear that the extended daylight makes a big difference in how much I walk or am at least on foot doing gardening or whatever outside.

    Average Steps per day:

    Jan 2018: 8114
    Feb 2018: 9097
    March 2018: 9135
    April 2018: 13358
    May 2018: 14509
    June 2018: 12807
    July 2018: 10738
    Aug 2018: 11452
    Sep 2018: 11125
    Oct 2018: 10881
    Nov 2018: 8993
    Dec 2018: 9230
    Jan 2019: 8830
    Feb 2019: 11428
    March 2019: 10598
    April 2019: 12307
    May 2019: 12414
    June 2019: 13480
    July 2019: 14277
    Aug 2019: 14245
    Sep 2019: 11433
    Oct 2019: 9375
    Nov 2019: 9539

    Now that's a VERY obvious pattern going on there, purely due to the lack of available daylight meaning my post work walks on weekdays are far shorter due to lack of usable light in the area where I live. A large percentage of the people living in my village walk to 5km "loop" every day but this drops off dramatically during weekday evenings when it's dark when people get home from work and I'm pretty sure that this is repeated countless times in other rural communities.

    I spoke with a local farmer about the clocks and he said it wouldn't bother him as it's dark for several hours after he starts his day anyway and it doesn't cause him any issues whatsoever.

    That all pretty much highlights my point. The walking group I speak of has to contend with literally everything you list there and it doesn’t stop them. They do far more than 5k loop walks. That would be a stroll to them. People speaking of all the things they will do with the small bit of evening light gained - hope springs eternal. The brightness won’t suddenly make it warmer either.


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    #1207
    highdef
    Registered Users Posts: 6,150 ✭✭✭highdef


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    That all pretty much highlights my point. The walking group I speak of has to contend with literally everything you list there and it doesn’t stop them. They do far more than 5k loop walks. That would be a stroll to them. People speaking of all the things they will do with the small bit of evening light gained - hope springs eternal. The brightness won’t suddenly make it warmer either.

    I don't mind the cold, it's the dark that puts me off walking.....pitch black. The figures I show are unarguably a reflection of the amount of walking/on my feet exercise I get on average every day so yes, the small bit of evening light gained would make a substantial difference for me. I go out for a shorter walk with the dog after work when it's dark and I rarely bump into anyone. When I walk at the same time when it's daylight out, I pass several people/groups of people.

    The village goes into a semi hibernation during the winter time evenings and once we get the extra hour back in late March there are literally dozens of people out walking , when there were few or none at the same time before the clock change. Plus many of those neighbours who I might chat to will be saying that they're back out walking after work and are trying to lose a few pounds/kilos of weights that they have gained over the winter months. When the clocks go forward in late March, it instantly gives the whole village enough time to complete the 5k loop in daylight after getting home from work on a weekday.


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    #1208
    ForestFire
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭ForestFire


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    As said earlier, I envy anyone for whom changing clocks is a big problem in their life.

    I posted this info 4 months ago, so worth posting again, as some people actually think the reasons to stop changing the clocks is in anyway related to the physical task.....


    - stroke was 8% higher in the two days after daylight saving time.
    - Cancer victims were 25% more likely to have a stroke during that time, and people older than 65 were 20% more likely to have a stroke.
    - associated with a 10% increase in heart attacks
    - more workplace injuries, auto accidents and even hinders moral decision making

    https://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/11/h...cts/index.html

    Depression Trigger

    - A Danish study found an 11% increase in depression cases after the time seasonal change. The cases dissipated gradually after 10 weeks.
    - An Australian study found that male suicide rates increased the days after the spring and fall DST shift.

    https://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst...ng-health.html

    - IVF success rates drop in March
    - Heart attacks spike after the spring time change

    https://www.health.com/sleep/dayligh...e-health-risks

    Other Links
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wel...nce/ar-BBPd9px

    https://www.mnn.com/health/fitness-w...ht-saving-time


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    #1209
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,069 ✭✭✭prunudo


    -Heart attacks spike after the spring time change

    Maybe thats because all the unhealthy people who have done nothing all winter over exert themselves with the excitement of the brighter evenings. They really need to ease themselves into fitness.


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    #1210
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    ForestFire wrote: »
    I posted this info 4 months ago, so worth posting again, as some people actually think the reasons to stop changing the clocks is in anyway related to the physical task.....


    - stroke was 8% higher in the two days after daylight saving time.
    - Cancer victims were 25% more likely to have a stroke during that time, and people older than 65 were 20% more likely to have a stroke.
    - associated with a 10% increase in heart attacks
    - more workplace injuries, auto accidents and even hinders moral decision making

    https://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/11/h...cts/index.html

    Depression Trigger

    - A Danish study found an 11% increase in depression cases after the time seasonal change. The cases dissipated gradually after 10 weeks.
    - An Australian study found that male suicide rates increased the days after the spring and fall DST shift.

    https://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst...ng-health.html

    - IVF success rates drop in March
    - Heart attacks spike after the spring time change

    https://www.health.com/sleep/dayligh...e-health-risks

    Other Links
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wel...nce/ar-BBPd9px

    https://www.mnn.com/health/fitness-w...ht-saving-time

    Not one of those links works.

    I look on stats published by media outlets warily. Misinterpretations are incredibly commonplace and journalists are more interested in headlines than analysing the data. I saw an NYTimes article that said that walking a certain distance every week reduces breast cancer recurrence risk by 40-50%. I don’t even know how you’d quantify that. That’s just an example of dubious health science reporting. Many journalist don’t even appear to be qualified to report faithfully on scientific data.


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    #1211
    ForestFire
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭ForestFire


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    Not one of those links works.

    I look on stats published by media outlets warily. Misinterpretations are incredibly commonplace and journalists are more interested in headlines than analysing the data. I saw an NYTimes article that said that walking a certain distance every week reduces breast cancer recurrence risk by 40-50%. I don’t even know how you’d quantify that. That’s just an example of dubious health science reporting. Many journalist don’t even appear to be qualified to report faithfully on scientific data.

    I did say I posted them 3 months ago.... All of the articles linked to proper research and some of these are included below.

    Stroke frome American academy neurology
    https://www.aan.com/PressRoom/Home/PressRelease/1440

    https://www.heart.org/en/news/2018/10/26/can-daylight-saving-time-hurt-the-heart-prepare-now-for-spring

    This one has links to other studies
    https://journalistsresource.org/studies/environment/energy/daylight-savings-time-health-accidents-energy/


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    #1212
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,185 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    When you wake up on Sunday, you might not even realise it’s Sunday. Or the weekend. On Monday morning, when you stumble into your kitchen and see the oven clock reads 08:00, you can go back to bed for another hour. Except you can’t, because it’s actually 09:00. The oven clock hasn’t updated and you’re now late for work. Except you’re not, because you can work from bed. Result.

    What’s the point of time, after all, when each day is an excruciating repeat of the one that preceded it, stuck on a loop of endless Zoom calls and Houseparty drinking sessions? Or to put it another way: the clocks changing means even less than it has before. At least the clocks jumping forward an hour takes us (artificially) one hour closer to the end of lockdown.
    ...

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/clocks-change-uk-2020-daylight-saving-time


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    #1213
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 17,670 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    No reason why the clocks can't go forward at the end of February.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #1214
    0lddog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭0lddog


    If the EU want to do something usefull they could apply themselves to stuff that really matters - like sorting out paying for this Covid hiatus


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    #1215
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mantis Toboggan wrote: »
    No reason why the clocks can't go forward at the end of February.
    I would prefer it if they did, would then be in sync with the US.


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    #1216
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,028 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Some advocated for staying all year summer time because the change of clock twice a year was some sort of inconvenience.

    Given the current situation changing clocks twice a year is trivial.

    Let's have common sense and keep the status quo.


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    #1217
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 17,670 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    Permanent summer time would be much more environmentally friendly.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #1218
    ForestFire
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭ForestFire


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Some advocated for staying all year summer time because the change of clock twice a year was some sort of inconvenience.

    Given the current situation changing clocks twice a year is trivial.

    Let's have common sense and keep the status quo.

    Who is saying this? If there is anyone I would say they are a small minority, but I like to see a reference to someone that is actually using this as their main/sole reason.

    As I said a few time in this thread now, it's not the physical task that's the issue, (which is almost nonexistent now with modern tech), it's the consequences of the chance, to both health and solical life.


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    #1219
    Quackster
    Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 5,744 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quackster


    Mantis Toboggan wrote: »
    No reason why the clocks can't go forward at the end of February.

    Well we could have an extra month of summer time and be in sync with North America if summer time was from the first Sunday in March to the first Sunday in November.


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    #1220
    ForestFire
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭ForestFire


    Quackster wrote: »
    Well we could have an extra month of summer time and be in sync with North America if summer time was from the first Sunday in March to the first Sunday in November.

    My first preference at the moment is all year summer time (not to be confused with all year summer).

    After this I would be willing to give all year winter time a trial, before reverting back to the change system.

    Why not even try splitting the 2 and go in between?
    Some states in Australia, I believe, have very unusual time zones!

    If we do revert or stay with the changes then yes a number of changes to the current system could be done, including adjusting the very later return to summer time after the 21 Dec, to the same time it changes to winter time before this.


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    #1221
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,185 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    the whole world should stick to GMT (or UTC or whatever) and just adjust work hours accordingly...


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    #1222
    Cork Boy 53
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    I doubt that the vast majority of people give a flying **** about changing the clocks right now but anyway, if things do return to some semblance of normality, I would be in favour of keeping DST all year round.


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    #1223
    LaFuton
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 784 ✭✭✭LaFuton


    nnnnnnoooooooooooooooo


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    #1224
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,185 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Cork Boy 53 wrote: »
    I doubt that the vast majority of people give a flying **** about changing the clocks right now but anyway,

    you'd miss the bi-annual time-change threads though, and the pubs closed on Good Friday one as well... Hopefully we'll be back to normal for the annual poppy thread


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    #1225
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mantis Toboggan wrote: »
    Permanent summer time would be much more environmentally friendly.

    Makes no difference whether the lights are on an extra hour in the morning or evening.


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    #1226
    Bobblehats
    Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    the whole world should stick to GMT (or UTC or whatever) and just adjust work hours accordingly...

    Can’t see it :rolleyes: the half hour difference makes things particularly awkward. And unnecessary it would be at least something to be in the same minute; whatever the hour but then there’s that rubbish on top


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    #1227
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,300 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Obligatory spamming of this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84aWtseb2-4


    See you all for the same next year.


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    #1228
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,896 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Bobblehats wrote: »
    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    the whole world should stick to GMT (or UTC or whatever) and just adjust work hours accordingly...
    Can’t see it :rolleyes: the half hour difference makes things particularly awkward. And unnecessary it would be at least something to be in the same minute; whatever the hour but then there’s that rubbish on top

    Eh, wut?


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    #1229
    Bobblehats
    Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    Bobblehats wrote: »
    Eh, wut?

    - there’s a half hour difference some places too


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    #1230
    recyclebin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,501 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    Is the EU still going ahead with abolishing DST? What's the latest on this?


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    #1231
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    recyclebin wrote: »
    Is the EU still going ahead with abolishing DST? What's the latest on this?
    Last I heard was that it had been postponed until 2021, but even it happening then is not confirmed.


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