EU to recommend abolishing DST

facehugger99

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

It’s all just opinion though. There’s no “explaining”. People can disagree, you know. Some of us are dubious of the contention that people will make great use of the minimal evening light that would be gained.

The consultation process showed a vast majority in favour of permanent summer time vs winter time.

It’s not opinion, it’s fact.

I believe the EU have postponed the decision until 2022, probably because no one country can make a decision which way to leave their clocks.

facehugger99

facehugger99 wrote: »

The consultation process showed a vast majority in favour of permanent summer time vs winter time.

It’s not opinion, it’s fact.

Ask them again now when the evenings are dark earlier.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

facehugger99 wrote: »

The consultation process showed a vast majority in favour of permanent summer time vs winter time.

It’s not opinion, it’s fact.

I’m well aware that most people favour sunmertime. This is a future event. People think the extra evening light will be more useful. We don’t actually know how that will pan out yet.

It’s a fact that most people want to switch to year-round summertime. How useful the change will be is still unknown. People’s postulations on how the change will affect things is all opinion.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m well aware that most people favour sunmertime. This is a future event. People think the extra evening light will be more useful. We don’t actually know how that will pan out yet.

It’s a fact that most people want to switch to year-round summertime. How useful the change will be is still unknown. People’s postulations on how the change will affect things is all opinion.

It is also a fact that it was tried in the late 1960s and was abandoned as a failure/or no benefits came from it.

Paddy Cow

Deleted User wrote: »

It is also a fact that it was tried in the late 1960s and was abandoned as a failure/or no benefits came from it.

You can't compare society in the 1960's to 2020.

dxhound2005

Deleted User wrote: »

It is also a fact that it was tried in the late 1960s and was abandoned as a failure/or no benefits came from it.

In mainland Europe it was largely abandoned after WW2, and only brought back during the oil crisis. For the same reason that it started in WW1, fuel saving.

https://www.timeanddate.com/time/europe/daylight-saving-history.html

nkl12xtw5goz70

Deleted User wrote: »

It is also a fact that it was tried in the late 1960s and was abandoned as a failure/or no benefits came from it.

Ireland abandoned it after the UK did, in order to avoid a time difference between the Republic and the North.

Also, Ireland had a much more agrarian workforce back in the late 60s, who objected starting work in the fields while it was still dark. That is much less of a concern in 2019.

coffee_cake

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

This is where all year summertime is such a folly.
There is no usable daylight in the evening on wet winter days.
The opportunity to do all these things people who advocate all year summertime claim they will do will not exist, it will be too feckin wet and miserable, and dark, to do them.

And at the same time we will not even see a chink of any sort of daylight until at least 9.30am.

Id much rather we swap all the same, I'd rather a bit of light in the evening

Fr Tod Umptious

bluewolf wrote: »

Id much rather we swap all the same, I'd rather a bit of light in the evening

As I've said before.

Try it and people will be screaming for DST back after a few winter's of pitch dark mornings.

The reality is the location of our country on the planet is not suited for a one size fits all.

The best solution is to change the clocks twice a year, ideally that would be every early December and early February, but unfortunately that is not on the table.

ruwithme

Thank god for brexit, Britain won't be adopting any e.u related suggestions or otherwise regarding clock changes. so ireland won't be doing anything either with a uk land border that would have a time difference on our island.

if we should make any changes, it would in my opinion be too not fall the clock back until later in the month of November and spring it forward sooner ie last days of February

December and January are the months when the clock changes come of benefit to people.

for anyone who thinks clock changes should be abolished! i say they were introduced for good reasons and them same reasons are still relevant today. be careful what you wish for.

dxhound2005

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

As I've said before.

Try it and people will be screaming for DST back after a few winter's of pitch dark mornings.

The reality is the location of our country on the planet is not suited for a one size fits all.

The best solution is to change the clocks twice a year, ideally that would be every early December and early February, but unfortunately that is not on the table.

Define morning. It won't matter to someone travelling to start work at 6 or 7 in the morning. Nor those working various shifts in the 24 hour economy. Nor the large number of people who stay at home. Those you have in mind who you expect to be screaming are probably a minority of the population.

Leroy Cuddly Warmonger

Leroy Cuddly Warmonger wrote: »

And as the majority of people have said who cares if it’s only bright at 9:30, what are you going to be doing on a dark wet winter morning the morning light is totally unusable for most.

Going to work and going to school?

You could argue what's the point of an hour of daylight between 4 and 5 when we are all in work anyway?

dxhound2005

ruwithme wrote: »

Thank god for brexit, Britain won't be adopting any e.u related suggestions or otherwise regarding clock changes. so ireland won't be doing anything either with a uk land border that would have a time difference on our island.

if we should make any changes, it would in my opinion be too not fall the clock back until later in the month of November and spring it forward sooner ie last days of February

December and January are the months when the clock changes come of benefit to people.

for anyone who thinks clock changes should be abolished! i say they were introduced for good reasons and them same reasons are still relevant today. be careful what you wish for.

Spain and Portugal are an hour apart. So are Romania and Hungary, Sweden and Finland. There is no particular reason that us and the UK have to be on the same time.

nkl12xtw5goz70

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There is no particular reason that us and the UK have to be on the same time.

I'd note that there are an estimated 30,000 cross-border workers who live in the Republic and work in the North, or vice versa. Navigating different time zones across the border could be a massive pain for many.

Fr Tod Umptious

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Define morning. It won't matter to someone travelling to start work at 6 or 7 in the morning. Nor those working various shifts in the 24 hour economy. Nor the large number of people who stay at home. Those you have in mind who you expect to be screaming are probably a minority of the population.

In a regular Irish village/town/city you will see the following going on it the morning, in no particular order.

Farming
Construction
Infrastructure services (ESB, telecoms, Irish water etc)
Street cleaning
Shop owners taking large deliveries
Business owners cleaning the front of premises before opening
etc etc

All parts of every day life that are easier done with natural light than without.

Then you have schools.
Regardless of how they travel to school be it by car, cycle, walk or public transport there is zero upside to that happening in the dark rather than in increasing light.

People go on about kids and obesity, and then they want to reduce their ability to walk or cycle to school by taking away the daylight.

Madness.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Think maybe it could be shortened by a month?

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

In a regular Irish village/town/city you will see the following going on it the morning, in no particular order.

Farming
Construction
Infrastructure services (ESB, telecoms, Irish water etc)
Street cleaning
Shop owners taking large deliveries
Business owners cleaning the front of premises before opening
etc etc

All parts of every day life that are easier done with natural light than without.

Then you have schools.
Regardless of how they travel to school be it by car, cycle, walk or public transport there is zero upside to that happening in the dark rather than in increasing light.

People go on about kids and obesity, and then they want to reduce their ability to walk or cycle to school by taking away the daylight.

Madness.

Yes but what about people who want to play tennis at 4pm?

dxhound2005

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

I'd note that there are an estimated 30,000 cross-border workers who live in the Republic and work in the North, or vice versa. Navigating different time zones across the border could be a massive pain for many.

No need for it to be a pain. People manage this sort of thing the world over. Like in Kentucky.

http://www.timebie.com/us/kentucky.php

dxhound2005

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

In a regular Irish village/town/city you will see the following going on it the morning, in no particular order.

Farming
Construction
Infrastructure services (ESB, telecoms, Irish water etc)
Street cleaning
Shop owners taking large deliveries
Business owners cleaning the front of premises before opening
etc etc

All parts of every day life that are easier done with natural light than without.

Then you have schools.
Regardless of how they travel to school be it by car, cycle, walk or public transport there is zero upside to that happening in the dark rather than in increasing light.

People go on about kids and obesity, and then they want to reduce their ability to walk or cycle to school by taking away the daylight.

Madness.

They all have to cope with the varying hours of daylight during the year, regardless of what the clock says. As low as 7.5 hours a day in mid December.

nkl12xtw5goz70

dxhound2005 wrote: »

No need for it to be a pain.

If the UK retains DST and Ireland scraps it, the Republic would be one hour ahead of the North throughout the winter months. This creates all kinds of logistical issues for cross-border workers, especially with regards to getting kids to and from school and the like. It's easy to say that there's no need for it to be a pain, but many of those 30,000 people will inevitably find it difficult.

ForestFire

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

If the UK retains DST and Ireland scraps it, the Republic would be one hour ahead of the North throughout the winter months. This creates all kinds of logistical issues for cross-border workers, especially with regards to getting kids to and from school and the like. It's easy to say that there's no need for it to be a pain, but many of those 30,000 people will inevitably find it difficult.

Are you seriously suggesting that less than half of 1% of the population should override the vast support for change. 82% in favour in this thread.

How many workers cross the Portuguese boarder each day?

dxhound2005

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

If the UK retains DST and Ireland scraps it, the Republic would be one hour ahead of the North throughout the winter months. This creates all kinds of logistical issues for cross-border workers, especially with regards to getting kids to and from school and the like. It's easy to say that there's no need for it to be a pain, but many of those 30,000 people will inevitably find it difficult.

The UK should go with the new scheme. Even if they don't the disruption caused by Brexit if it happens will have a far bigger impact than any clock changes. People in Cork or Tralee should have as much say as those in Lifford or Monaghan.

Edit: Posted before I saw the ForestFire post.

nkl12xtw5goz70

ForestFire wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that less than half of 1% of the population should override the vast support for change. 82% in favour in this thread.

An opinion poll carried out as part of public consultation on the proposed change found that (coincidentally) 82 percent of people oppose any measure that results in different time zones on the island of Ireland.

So it's not just a small percentage of the population who would oppose the North being in a different time zone for 7 months of the year. It's the majority.

dxhound2005

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

An opinion poll carried out as part of public consultation on the proposed change found that (coincidentally) 82 percent of people oppose any measure that results in different time zones on the island of Ireland.

So it's not just a small percentage of the population who would oppose the North being in a different time zone for 7 months of the year. It's the majority.

It wouldn't matter much to those anywhere south of Dublin. A bigger consideration might be the difference between us and GB. But we and they cope OK with the time difference when travelling to France, Germany etc, and doing business with them. They and us could learn to cope equally well with a new setup.

ForestFire

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

An opinion poll carried out as part of public consultation on the proposed change found that (coincidentally) 82 percent of people oppose any measure that results in different time zones on the island of Ireland.

So it's not just a small percentage of the population who would oppose the North being in a different time zone for 7 months of the year. It's the majority.

Over 80% voted to rid the change in both Ireland and the UK, so why would the UK not also get rid of it to solve the problem.

The UK also voted by majority (all be it a closer diff than Ireland) to keep summertime)

They are leaving the EU on a 51.x percent majority FFS, they can change their time also, as their citizens voted and if it causes a few such pain.

We should do what is in the best interest and the wishes of the majority of our people. I posted earlier in this tread all the benifit of no change.

Quantum Erasure

time, is just a social construct, maan.... it's all relative anyway

Akrasia

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

As I've said before.

Try it and people will be screaming for DST back after a few winter's of pitch dark mornings.

The reality is the location of our country on the planet is not suited for a one size fits all.

The best solution is to change the clocks twice a year, ideally that would be every early December and early February, but unfortunately that is not on the table.

That would make things twice as bad as they are

Why do none of the pro DST folks ever talk about the disruption caused twice a year from the very act of changing the clocks

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Akrasia wrote: »

That would make things twice as bad as they are

Why do none of the pro DST folks ever talk about the disruption caused twice a year from the very act of changing the clocks

I envy anyone who is bothered by having to do this. They don’t know what problems are.

An Claidheamh

ruwithme wrote: »

Thank god for brexit, Britain won't be adopting any e.u related suggestions or otherwise regarding clock changes. so ireland won't be doing anything either with a uk land border that would have a time difference on our island.

.

So basically, they are destroying their economy, creating mayhem, breaking up the UK and are an all round international joke.... but hey, we can't let Johnny Foreigner and his refined ideas affect the Blighty's clocks.


There would be no time difference on the island, the North are reliant on the Irish economy, they would have to recognise the Republic's time whether some unionists have an issue with that or not.

About time we stopped this messing anyway.