EU to recommend abolishing DST

facehugger99 · 14-11-2019 8:04am

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

An opinion poll carried out as part of public consultation on the proposed change found that (coincidentally) 82 percent of people oppose any measure that results in different time zones on the island of Ireland.

I'd love to see how that question was worded and the results of same. It's not credible that that many people give a **** what time it is in Belfast.

Did the 82% choose sticking with UK time compared to switching to year round summertime or was it a woolly 'would you like there to just be one timezone in Ireland?' for example.

That question did not form part of the EU consultation process to my recollection.

Does anyone have a link to the poll?

14-11-2019 8:56am

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I envy anyone who is bothered by having to do this. They don’t know what problems are.

Depends on how difficult it is to change the clocks, having to hire scaffold to reach a different to reach clock, plus all the health & safety documentation etc.
it can be a real pain.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 14-11-2019 9:39am

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's not credible that that many people give a **** what time it is in Belfast.

It all depends on how close one lives to the North. Most people in Dublin probably don't care what time it is in Belfast. Many people in Donegal probably do care what time it is in Derry.

Also, two time zones in Ireland would only reinforce the partition of the country, potentially undermining the peace process.

facehugger99 · 14-11-2019 10:14am

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

It all depends on how close one lives to the North. Most people in Dublin probably don't care what time it is in Belfast. Many people in Donegal probably do care what time it is in Derry.

Also, two time zones in Ireland would only reinforce the partition of the country, potentially undermining the peace process.

82% is not a credible percentage. Donegal has a tiny population compared to Dublin.

prunudo · 14-11-2019 10:38am

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

It all depends on how close one lives to the North. Most people in Dublin probably don't care what time it is in Belfast. Many people in Donegal probably do care what time it is in Derry.

Also, two time zones in Ireland would only reinforce the partition of the country, potentially undermining the peace process.

I'd say most Dubs don't care about time it is in the other 31 counties let alone Belfast.

Elmer Blooker · 14-11-2019 10:43am

Akrasia wrote: »

That would make things twice as bad as they are

Why do none of the pro DST folks ever talk about the disruption caused twice a year from the very act of changing the clocks

What disruption? Most barely even notice the darker evenings in our overcast and cloudy climate, in fact everyone who's up early loves the 'extra' hour of daylight in the mornings at the end of October.
What disruption happens at the end of March?

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 14-11-2019 10:45am

facehugger99 wrote: »

82% is not a credible percentage. Donegal has a tiny population compared to Dublin.

Well, that's what the poll, carried out by Amarach Research, found.

You assume most people don't care about having two time zones on the island of Ireland, while opinion polling shows that most people actually do.

Which is more "credible" — your personal opinion, or the views of the 1,000+ people surveyed?

Mantis Toboggan · 14-11-2019 10:59am

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

What disruption? Most barely even notice the darker evenings in our overcast and cloudy climate, in fact everyone who's up early loves the 'extra' hour of daylight in the mornings at the end of October.
What disruption happens at the end of March?

I think it's been proven that people are more likely to suffer cardiac arrest or stroke on the day following the time change.

facehugger99 · 14-11-2019 11:36am

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

Well, that's what the poll, carried out by Amarach Research, found.

You assume most people don't care about having two time zones on the island of Ireland, while opinion polling shows that most people actually do.

Which is more "credible" — your personal opinion, or the views of the 1,000+ people surveyed?

My question related to the phrasing of the question and what the options were wrt to how the choice was presented.

I would contend, from my experience that people would be happy to choose permanent summer time even if the UK didn't.

Have you a link to the poll?

14-11-2019 12:17pm

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

It all depends on how close one lives to the North. Most people in Dublin probably don't care what time it is in Belfast. Many people in Donegal probably do care what time it is in Derry.

Also, two time zones in Ireland would only reinforce the partition of the country, potentially undermining the peace process.

Creating a problem where there isn't really one. I'm sure people near the Spanish/Portuguese border as well as those living in Arizona (doesn't do daylight savings time at all) and the neighbouring states get on fine with this seemingly 'complex' issue.

14-11-2019 12:24pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

As I've said before.

Try it and people will be screaming for DST back after a few winter's of pitch dark mornings..

How do you know people will be screaming for it back, your so convinced of it that it’s sort of funny.

Most people aren’t stupid, they realise the mornings will be darker but they are perfectly happy with that.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 14-11-2019 12:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Creating a problem where there isn't really one. I'm sure people near the Spanish/Portuguese border as well as those living in Arizona (doesn't do daylight savings time at all) and the neighbouring states get on fine with this seemingly 'complex' issue.

The situation of Arizona and New Mexico is very different from the Republic of Ireland and the North — in that you don't have tense animosity between people with very different ideas about what country they belong to. Applying different time zones in the island of Ireland only reinforces the mentality of partition, with self-evident political consequences.

As a practical aspect, note too that schools in the US start much earlier than Irish schools, with the school day generally beginning somewhere between 7 and 8 a.m. This makes it easier for American parents to manage school runs before work.

In border counties, you have people trying to get their kids to school and then get to work across the border themselves on a tight schedule — which would be thrown into havoc if there were an hour's time difference.

A cross-border worker living in Donegal, 30 minutes from Derry, would have to leave home at 7:30 am in the wintertime to get to work by 9.

It's very easy for people sitting down in Dublin to say this shouldn't cause problems. But imagine putting the Northside and Southside of Dublin in different time zones and think of the issues it would cause.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 14-11-2019 12:46pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

Have you a link to the poll?

No, I don't. I'm sure you can look it up if you're interested.

Mantis Toboggan · 14-11-2019 12:48pm

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

The situation of Arizona and New Mexico is very different from the Republic of Ireland and the North — in that you don't have tense animosity between people with very different ideas about what country they belong to. Applying different time zones in the island of Ireland only reinforces the mentality of partition, with self-evident political consequences.

If it's such big problem for the people in Northern Ireland what's stopping them from from changing to the same time zone as us?

Stark · 14-11-2019 12:49pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

If it's such big problem for the people in Northern Ireland what's stopping them from from changing to the same time zone as us?

The DUP

Don't want Northern Ireland being different from the Union. (except when it comes to gay marriage and abortion of course).

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 14-11-2019 12:51pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Depends on how difficult it is to change the clocks, having to hire scaffold to reach a different to reach clock, plus all the health & safety documentation etc.
it can be a real pain.

You know, I’m still going to put that in the ‘Problems I wish I had’ category. And for most people, it’s far easier than that. Even business owners with clocks outside.

stefanovich · 14-11-2019 12:52pm

This is all just to piss off the UK. Just like us switching to kilometers. Farce.

Tacitus Kilgore · 14-11-2019 12:54pm

stefanovich wrote: »

This is all just to piss off the UK. Just like us switching to kilometers. Farce.

Agree 100% - inches, feet, yards & miles make infinitely more sense than the convoluted metric system. Arse.

Stark · 14-11-2019 12:58pm

Tacitus Kilgore wrote:

Agree 100% - inches, feet, yards & miles make infinitely more sense than the convoluted metric system. Arse.

Definitely, multiplying by 12, then 3, then 3, then hold on I have to google the next bit (https://www.google.ie/search?q=how+many+yards+in+a+mile) is much easier to grasp than multiplying by 10 every time.

stefanovich · 14-11-2019 12:58pm

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Agree 100% - inches, feet, yards & miles make infinitely more sense than the convoluted metric system. Arse.

Well, Irish people travel back and forth over the border and over the Irish sea and have to change from KM to miles. All other large English speaking countries use miles.

As for daylight savings, most of the channels on TV we watch are UK.

It'll cause us confusion here.

Mantis Toboggan · 14-11-2019 12:59pm

Stark wrote: »

The DUP

Don't want Northern Ireland being different from the Union. (except when it comes to gay marriage and abortion of course).

The same DUP that voted against the good Friday Agreement?

Well then that's a matter between the people of Northern Ireland and the DUP.
We shouldn't be changing policy to suit those idiots.

It's about time we looked after ourselves and let them either follow or suffer the consequences.

Tacitus Kilgore · 14-11-2019 1:02pm

stefanovich wrote: »

Well, Irish people travel back and forth over the border and over the Irish sea and have to change from KM to miles. All other large English speaking countries use miles.

As for daylight savings, most of the channels on TV we watch are UK.

It'll cause us confusion here.

What do they have to change at the border?

Ehm, aside from the US - what other large English speaking countries use miles?

Our good american friends, and australian, and russian, and chinese friends - all seem to survive despite having multiple time zones within their own countries, I think an hour between us and whoever will be just fine.

stefanovich · 14-11-2019 1:08pm

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

What do they have to change at the border?

Ehm, aside from the US - what other large English speaking countries use miles?

Our good american friends, and australian, and russian, and chinese friends - all seem to survive despite having multiple time zones within their own countries, I think an hour between us and whoever will be just fine.

Hmm, I assumed Canada / Australia and New Zealand used miles but apparently I'm wrong.

Still, the UK and the US would be the top countries that Irish people would visit and we share a land border with one of them.

My mother is going to be an hour late for Coronation street now and it is your fault.

Mantis Toboggan · 14-11-2019 1:10pm

God forbid we have to get up an hour earlier to watch homes under the hammer :rolleyes:

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 14-11-2019 1:11pm

stefanovich wrote: »

Well, Irish people travel back and forth over the border and over the Irish sea and have to change from KM to miles.

You'd be amazed how many from the North think they can drive as fast as they want in the Republic just because they see "100" on the signs.

Tacitus Kilgore · 14-11-2019 1:14pm

stefanovich wrote: »

Still, the UK and the US would be the top countries that Irish people would visit and we share a land border with one of them.

My mother is going to be an hour late for Coronation street now and it is your fault.

I think Spain is the most visited by Irish people - certainly for holidaying anyway, they use kms over there too btw, AAND drive on the other side.

:pac: @ the bolded bit, made me chuckle

Elmer Blooker · 14-11-2019 1:15pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Try it and people will be screaming for DST back after a few winter's of pitch dark mornings.

Agree, pitch dark mornings in exchange for an 'extra' hour of gloomy semi darkness in the afternoon that no one will even notice notice doesn't seem like a good deal to me.
Also more ice in the mornings with the sun rising an hour later is not a good idea in a country totally dependent on the motor car and long commutes because of years of bad 'planning'.
I'd give it a year or two before people realise they have been hoodwinked by the 'extra' hour of daylight carrot on a stick.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 14-11-2019 1:32pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Agree, pitch dark mornings in exchange for an 'extra' hour of gloomy semi darkness in the afternoon that no one will even notice notice doesn't seem like a good deal to me.
Also more ice in the mornings with the sun rising an hour later is not a good idea in a country totally dependent on the motor car and long commutes because of years of bad 'planning'.
I'd give it a year or two before people realise they have been hoodwinked by the 'extra' hour of daylight carrot on a stick.

A very good point. In mid-winter, it wouldn’t be an issue but the darker mornings in the outer reaches of winter would mean that morning ice would be an issue for far longer each year.

The supposed benefits of extra brightness in the evening make me smile. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Anyone who wants to exercise outdoors over winter is already doing so.

Hotblack Desiato · 14-11-2019 1:38pm

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

Also, Ireland had a much more agrarian workforce back in the late 60s, who objected starting work in the fields while it was still dark. That is much less of a concern in 2019.

I don't buy that. Why would anyone start work on a farm at X o'clock simply because that was what they've always done? They're going to work according to the daylight whatever the clock says.

stefanovich wrote: »

Well, Irish people travel back and forth over the border and over the Irish sea and have to change from KM to miles.

So what. When I drove all over Europe with an MPH speedo it was no problem. I drive the wife's car which has an MPH speedo, my current bike has a km/h speedo but the one I sold last month was MPH. It's not a problem except perhaps for the terminally stupid.

All other large English speaking countries use miles.

Australia, Canada, India use km. US and UK are the outliers.

As for daylight savings, most of the channels on TV we watch are UK.

Yeah god forbid someone misses East Enders, which is shown on an Irish channel anyway :rolleyes:

Don't most people record almost everything they watch these days anyway? never mind on-demand services.

Gerald Echoing Birthmark wrote: »

You'd be amazed how many from the North think they can drive as fast as they want in the Republic just because they see "100" on the signs.

You'll find that they were doing it anyway when we still had MPH signs.

Do they also think that the white UK sign with the black diagonal means no speed limit? :rolleyes:

highdef · 14-11-2019 1:42pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Agree, pitch dark mornings in exchange for an 'extra' hour of gloomy semi darkness in the afternoon that no one will even notice notice doesn't seem like a good deal to me.

Around the winter solstice, this would be the case. Can't disagree there however it's later in the winter when it becomes more beneficial. With all year round Irish Standard Time, sunset at the end of February would be about 19:00 in Dublin.....add about 10 minutes to that if you are in the southwest or west of the country. With a 19:00 sunset, you'd have about 20 minutes or so of usable light as long as it's not overcast. To me, that is a massive increase of post-work light and longer time for outdoor activities at the weekends/when not working.

By mid March, you've another 30 minutes of daylight available with sunset around about 19:30 with usable daylight heading for 20:00. At this stage the weather is usually picking up somewhat and going for walks, gardening, outdoor painting, etc are tasks that become more regular. This is still about a fortnight before the clocks would be changing and I know from my own point of view, every week counts greatly as I await the longer evenings from late March onwards.

EU to recommend abolishing DST

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