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CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)*OP upd 28/03*

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Comments

  • #8342
    paul71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,370 ✭✭✭paul71


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Total nonsense to compare us with Germany. Like for like us with countries of similar population as procurement volume discount means that Germany get much more for their euro.


    It'll still paint our HSE administration as a nightmare but will be a much more accurate/informative figure.

    Its a factual figure how much more accurate do you require than a straight fact? Would you propose we spend 10k per head?


  • #8343
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    I think the point he was making is that whatever the death toll is, due to Covid, it will not increase the overall number of deaths which would have occurred anyway.

    Which is why if it's sheltered accommodation for the elderly and nursing homes that are accounting for a large part of ICU and deaths we should actually know that as it would help put some meaningful context on the stats.


  • #8344
    all about the mane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭all about the mane


    PowerToWait wrote: »
    Just think critically about why it is supposedly useless to wear a mask? And ask yourself why every official in every news clip you’ve seen from every country in the world, police, soldiers for example, and Gardaí here, not to mention all the rush to get masks for health care workers globally.

    Is it to look cool?

    I have to wear a mask as part of my job. I know the upsides and downsides of wearing them. Their usefulness is negligible in a situation like this.
    What are you talking about every official in every clip. That is outright bullsh1t


  • #8345
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    givyjoe wrote: »
    But but but, masks don't help...

    https://twitter.com/patphelan/status/1244010733714788352?s=19

    https://twitter.com/patphelan/status/1244010733714788352?s=19
    Don't know how much time I spent arguing with people on here. I was called a lunatic. Follow the guidelines. FFS . That's the thing about physics and maths. Doesn't matter who says the sun goes around us. It doesn't.


  • #8346
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    Look at this flute.

    Be careful out there.

    https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/1244140535360733186?s=19


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  • #8347
    all about the mane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭all about the mane


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/patphelan/status/1244010733714788352?s=19
    Don't know how much time I spent arguing with people on here. I was called a lunatic. Follow the guidelines. FFS . That's the thing about physics and maths. Doesn't matter who says the sun goes around us. It doesn't.

    Seriously. Quoting some bullsh1t twitter account. Drawing the conclusion that the graph you have up is laughable.


  • #8348
    Lavinia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,102 ✭✭✭Lavinia


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/patphelan/status/1244010733714788352?s=19
    Don't know how much time I spent arguing with people on here. I was called a lunatic. Follow the guidelines. FFS . That's the thing about physics and maths. Doesn't matter who says the sun goes around us. It doesn't.
    Masks surely are not 100 percent protection but they do help to certain extent.


    so for that extent even so little i was wearing a mask last week when i was going out, and disposed them as soon as i got home.


  • #8349
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    paul71 wrote: »
    Its a factual figure how much more accurate do you require than a straight fact? Would you propose we spend 10k per head?


    Because it is two topline figures ignoring how those figures were achieved. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.


    Germany has a population of 83million. They can leverage that to get massive discounts on material, equipment, and building projects. They do not pay full price for their goods, we pay much more (per item) than they do


    So their €5,300 in spending would, proportionally, cost us a lot more.


  • #8350
    wellwhynot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭wellwhynot


    Does anyone know how many ventilators we have in the country today? Also oxygen machines? I know we ordered more of both but did we actually receive any.

    Also how many ICU beds do we have today?


  • #8351
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    When they had sufficient data from deaths due to Covid, they found that so far it mapped almost exactly what they would have predicted for that cohort of people, but over a slightly longer period of time.
    He made a prediction that at the end of the year the overall number of deaths from all causes will be the same as normal. What will be slightly different is the distribution timewise of the occurrence of the deaths.
    I think the point he was making is that whatever the death toll is, due to Covid, it will not increase the overall number of deaths which would have occurred anyway.

    I am going to leave a small compartment in my mind open for the possibility that might be true.
    But for now, with the images and records from ICUs in Spain, Italy, NYC, etc there is definitely something else going on. Something not normal. And those ICUs report it also includes younger people, say 30 to 50, being very very seriously ill. Some say 40% of very sick are not elderly. Maybe the younger dont get critically sick as often, but something very disturbing is going on.


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  • #8352
    brendane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 ✭brendane


    Are we doing anything to increase the number of ICU beds.

    When you listen to a lot of foreign commentators, they frequently reference that we have one of the lowest ICU bed rates per capita in Europe.

    Are we doing anything on the scale of the uk in the events centre in London and if we did introduce emergency beds, would we have the required equipment to make it function as an icu bed?


  • #8353
    angel eyes 2012
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 966 ✭✭✭angel eyes 2012


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    Wow, good point!

    Your health insurance will kick in if you are admitted to a public hospital for a non-covid related illness or injury otherwise you will pay the 80e per night fee.


  • #8354
    all about the mane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭all about the mane


    Lavinia wrote: »
    Masks surely are not 100 percent protection but they do help to certain extent.


    so for that extent even so little i was wearing a mask last week when i was going out, and disposed them as soon as i got home.

    Why, are you covid19 positive?


  • #8355
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭jackboy


    If there was a plentiful supply of masks available the HSE would be recommending the public to always wear them outside the home. Don’t believe the lies that they are not effective.


  • #8356
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    brendane wrote: »
    Are we doing anything to increase the number of ICU beds.

    When you listen to a lot of foreign commentators, they frequently reference that we have one of the lowest ICU bed rates per capita in Europe.

    Are we doing anything on the scale of the uk in the events centre in London and if we did introduce emergency beds, would we have the required equipment to make it function as an icu bed?




    we would be missing the most important "part", the nurse


  • #8357
    wadacrack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭wadacrack


    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/opinion/coronavirus-economy.html?referringSource=articleShare


  • #8358
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    little bess wrote: »
    Absolutely. My husband has been wearing ffp3 respirators in work (construction) when in the vicinity of any colleagues for the last two weeks and has been laughed at and told ‘they don’t work for the virus!’

    This is from people who have been trained to use them for protection and have had them readily available to use.

    Can people not use their own brains and do some f****n research.

    That's part of the reason I posted about it. I'd hate to think people getting abused because they are right. It's clear they work.

    It's like saying a gun can't kill someone because most people shoot themselves in the foot and soldiers need them first. Doesn't address the people who saw this for what it was and got one ahead of time when there wasn't a burden on the system.


  • #8359
    all about the mane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭all about the mane


    jackboy wrote: »
    If there was a plentiful supply of masks available the HSE would be recommending the public to always wear them outside the home. Don’t believe the lies that they are not effective.

    No they wouldn't


  • #8360
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    jackboy wrote: »
    If there was a plentiful supply of masks available the HSE would be recommending the public to always wear them outside the home. Don’t believe the lies that they are not effective.




    They're not freely available
    They're not all effective
    To be effective everyone would need the correct versions and wear them at all times
    Everyone would need to know how to properly handle them (Top Tip: People are idiots)
    They would give morons an excuse to break isolation (the most effective measure)


  • #8361
    Lavinia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,102 ✭✭✭Lavinia


    all about the mane wrote: »
    Why, are you covid19 positive?
    a week after my last going out i am okay so i suppose i can safely say that i am not.


    however people can be positive and have no symptoms and walk around spreading it without even knowing it


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  • #8362
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    They're not freely available
    They're not all effective
    To be effective everyone would need the correct versions and wear them at all times
    Everyone would need to know how to properly handle them (Top Tip: People are idiots)
    They would give morons an excuse to break isolation (the most effective measure)

    In other words, they are effective.


  • #8363
    all about the mane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭all about the mane


    Lavinia wrote: »
    a week after my last going out i am okay so i suppose i can safely say that i am not.


    however people can be positive and have no symptoms and walk around spreading it without even knowing it

    they can. but a mask isn't going to make any difference


  • #8364
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    MipMap wrote: »
    I have a fridge full of fish fingers and bread but I really need a bag of sugar, peanut butter and I'm running low on Bacardi!

    Whatever about the virus, that diet truly scares me.


  • #8365
    all about the mane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭all about the mane


    jackboy wrote: »
    In other words, they are effective.

    No, they are not


  • #8366
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    I was listening to BBC Radio 4 this morning and there was some boffin on analysing the statistics on deaths from Covid-19. I didn’t hear the beginning so I don’t know who he was or what his official status is.
    His job, apparently, is to analyse the ‘normal’ rates and causes of death in the UK. They also factor in the occurrence of major health issues for different age ranges. This enables them to predict for any age cohort with various health conditions, how many of those people will likely die in a given period, say a year.
    When they had sufficient data from deaths due to Covid, they found that so far it mapped almost exactly what they would have predicted for that cohort of people, but over a slightly longer period of time.
    He made a prediction that at the end of the year the overall number of deaths from all causes will be the same as normal. What will be slightly different is the distribution timewise of the occurrence of the deaths.
    I think the point he was making is that whatever the death toll is, due to Covid, it will not increase the overall number of deaths which would have occurred anyway.

    Imagine next years post mortem on the 2020 worldwide Covid19 crisis if what this man says turns out to be true. How is Sweden getting on?


  • #8367
    Lavinia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,102 ✭✭✭Lavinia


    all about the mane wrote: »
    they can. but a mask isn't going to make any difference
    in your opinion


  • #8368
    Bob24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/patphelan/status/1244010733714788352?s=19
    Don't know how much time I spent arguing with people on here. I was called a lunatic. Follow the guidelines. FFS . That's the thing about physics and maths. Doesn't matter who says the sun goes around us. It doesn't.

    The Korean professor’s interview a few pages back agrees with what a few of us have been saying. Western governments and the WHO are saying mask shouldn’t be worn by the general public because they know they are in short supply and thus should be reserved for medical staff. It actually makes sense as medical staff is very exposed and if they become ill and can’t work it will exacerbate the over saturation of or health systems.

    But at the end of the day their wording is bending the truth. The reality isn’t that masks are useless for the general public, but rather that with the limited supply we have we should reserve them for the most critical uses. So essentially as a policy it makes sense to reserve masks for medical staff, but the way Western government and the WHO word that policy it is just a manner for our governments to sugarcoat their lack of planning and our inability in the west to provide masks in sufficient quantities (as opposed to many Asian countries).


  • #8369
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,712 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    Lavinia wrote: »
    a week after my last going out i am okay so i suppose i can safely say that i am not.


    however people can be positive and have no symptoms and walk around spreading it without even knowing it

    If you were infected you’d be at risk for contracting it for at least 11.5. That’s my understanding.


  • #8370
    careless sherpa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 373 ✭✭careless sherpa


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    I was listening to BBC Radio 4 this morning and there was some boffin on analysing the statistics on deaths from Covid-19. I didn’t hear the beginning so I don’t know who he was or what his official status is.
    His job, apparently, is to analyse the ‘normal’ rates and causes of death in the UK. They also factor in the occurrence of major health issues for different age ranges. This enables them to predict for any age cohort with various health conditions, how many of those people will likely die in a given period, say a year.
    When they had sufficient data from deaths due to Covid, they found that so far it mapped almost exactly what they would have predicted for that cohort of people, but over a slightly longer period of time.
    He made a prediction that at the end of the year the overall number of deaths from all causes will be the same as normal. What will be slightly different is the distribution timewise of the occurrence of the deaths.
    I think the point he was making is that whatever the death toll is, due to Covid, it will not increase the overall number of deaths which would have occurred anyway.

    Sounds like someone wheeled out to excuse early inaction. Nothing to see here folks


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  • #8371
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Because it is two topline figures ignoring how those figures were achieved. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.


    Germany has a population of 83million. They can leverage that to get massive discounts on material, equipment, and building projects. They do not pay full price for their goods, we pay much more (per item) than they do


    So their €5,300 in spending would, proportionally, cost us a lot more.






    Oh and the biggest procurement issue.


    We are a small(ish), lightly populated, and low density island on the far flung reaches of major transport networks. Everything costs more


This discussion has been closed.
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