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30 strong convoy of high altitude aircraft just passed overhead

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245

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    #32
    loveall
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭loveall


    :rolleyes:

    www.findstarlink.com has times visible


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    #33
    JohnC.
    Registered Users Posts: 3,382 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    J_V_C wrote: »
    The brother's a bit skeptical about the Space X explanation.
    It doesn't explain the configuration of what he believes was a convoy of some sort, nor the deviations in direction.

    That's probably the batch that was only launched last week so they're only spreading out now.


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    #34
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,133 ✭✭✭plodder


    GarIT wrote: »
    They are satellites being sent up to provide high speed broadband globally. These are the things making the national broadband plan irrelevant before they start work on it.
    I think it's probably a great competitor for existing wireless solutions, but it will never be as good as fibre which is what the NBP is providing.


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    #35
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    All well and good for providing broadband in remote locations but unless it is cheaper than wired networks then it isn't going to get much traction.

    Also, a government would be extremely foolish to just say "nah we won't bother with the NBP, sure elon musk and star link will hook us up." SpaceX might decide to can the project, they could go broke, them might make it crazy expensive, it might not be all it was cracked up to be. There are too many unknowns and risks. We should proceed with our own BB project using known proven technology and let Elon risk his billions on this experimental venture. If it works out, it'll be a good backup and can be used where wired BB isn't feasible.


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    #36
    Roadtoad
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Roadtoad


    dhaughton99 wrote: »
    It’s space, not aviation. A trail of 60 plus small satellites which solar panels are reflecting the light you are seeing. They are bunched up together but will separate over time. They are supposed to be to able to supply internet access when fully setu.

    He could at least put a coat of black emulsion on the flippen things!


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    #37
    dkd21
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭dkd21


    Roadtoad wrote: »
    He could at least put a coat of black emulsion on the flippen things!

    I think they did do a black coating on one to test but haven't read about it since .


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    #38
    Xertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    Given how these things look, I'd rather just pay for the fibre rollout.


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    #39
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,480 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Xertz wrote: »
    Given how these things look, I'd rather just pay for the fibre rollout.

    Once deployed, you won't be able to see them with the naked eye. You can only see them now because they are in a lower orbit, on the way to to their final orbit deeper in space where they won't be visible anymore.

    Of course they will still be visible via Telescope.

    And they aren't really aimed at Ireland, they are aimed at the billions of people around the world without wired and in many cases even wireless internet access.

    Though it will likely end up showing the NBP to be horrible value for money. These could have delivered close to the same for a fraction of the cost of the NBP.


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    #40
    0lddog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭0lddog


    A bit wide angle but might be of interest to some of you. This came into me today from an alert

    https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/308213-spacex-engine-failure-could-result-in-another-crewed-launch-delay


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    #41
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    plodder wrote: »
    I think it's probably a great competitor for existing wireless solutions, but it will never be as good as fibre which is what the NBP is providing.

    From what od been looking at after seeing this. Its suggested it could be better than fiber. Depending on up link into the network itself.


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    #42
    0lddog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭0lddog


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    From what od been looking at after seeing this. Its suggested it could be better than fiber. Depending on up link into the network itself.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giQ8xEWjnBs


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    #43
    danny004
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭danny004


    should you be able to see it again in an hour the starlink tracker says yes at least here in Cork


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    #44
    Mrcaramelchoc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Mrcaramelchoc


    8:14 pm, 25 Mar 2020
    Starlink-2 OLD, BRIGHT (2.3) for 6 mins
    Look from WEST to SOUTHEAST (details)
    Elevation (from horizon): start: 10°, max: 61°, end: 26°





    8:50 pm, 26 Mar 2020


    Starlink-2 OLD, BRIGHT (3.6) for 5 mins
    Look from WEST to SOUTH (details)
    Elevation (from horizon): start: 10°, max: 28°, end: 27°





    so its tonight?30 mins or so?or am i reading it wrong?


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    #45
    roran
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭roran


    GarIT wrote: »
    They are satellites being sent up to provide high speed broadband globally. These are the things making the national broadband plan irrelevant before they start work on it.


    our lovely cloud-cover might just see how useful it will be for us!!:mad:


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    #46
    SlowBlowin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    No you will not see the train tonight, thats just a single dim satellite.

    The train is coming round next at 5:30am tomorrow.

    The best tool is https://www.heavens-above.com/


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    #47
    Calculator123
    Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭Calculator123


    Just been out to watch the ISS. Just before it appeared, four reasonably bright objects appeared going in almost exactly the opposite direction. Incredibly fast. In sort of formation. Not a line. Almost like fighter jets but silent. Could these have been Star Link?

    I cannot ever remember seeing anything like it before. Thinking more about it I'm wondering was it ducks or geese in the twilight and the perspective/depth perception was such that it looked odd.


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    #48
    Mrcaramelchoc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Mrcaramelchoc


    Calculator123 wrote: »
    Just been out to watch the ISS. Just before it appeared, four reasonably bright objects appeared going in almost exactly the opposite directly. Incredibly fast. In sort of formation. Not a line. Almost like fighter jets but silent. Could these have been Star Link?

    I cannot ever remember seeing anything like it before. Thinking more about it I'm wondering was is ducks or geese in the twilight and the perspective/depth perception was such that it looked odd.
    Where are you if you don't mind me asking?


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    #49
    Calculator123
    Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭Calculator123


    Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »
    Where are you if you don't mind me asking?

    North Kildare near Maynooth


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    #50
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,133 ✭✭✭plodder


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    From what od been looking at after seeing this. Its suggested it could be better than fiber. Depending on up link into the network itself.
    It's been suggested all right; doesn't mean it will be. Think of it this way. There is limited capacity of the air / ether whatever you want to call it to carry radio transmissions in any particular locality, between point A and point B. With fibre, when you run out of capacity on each .5 mm fibre strand, you can just run another one alongside it. There is no limit to the number of fibre strands you can run between A and B.

    These satellite systems are aimed at markets where fibre or any other kind of fixed broadband is uneconomic and always will be. That's why Amazon are building their own one. They see a billion+ potential customers in Africa and other under developed regions. They will probably have a role to play in developed countries too while/before fibre is deployed everywhere, which it will eventually. The old telephone network based on copper wires lasted around a hundred years, and is being replaced by fibre, which may well last the same amount of time imo.


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    #51
    danny004
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭danny004


    SlowBlowin wrote: »
    No you will not see the train tonight, thats just a single dim satellite.

    The train is coming round next at 5:30am tomorrow.

    The best tool is https://www.heavens-above.com/

    so how do you know if its the train or a single satellite as there are so many numbers after starlink like starlink -1202
    when will it come around again in the evening


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    #52
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,643 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    GarIT wrote: »
    They are satellites being sent up to provide high speed broadband globally. These are the things making the national broadband plan irrelevant before they start work on it.

    Lol for someone with the name IT hailing starlink making fibre broadband to the home irrelevant I'd do some reading. Starlink most definitely has a place in the world and commercially sound.

    Replacing Ireland's fibre network isn't it. It's encouraging to see IT people think this way.. not.



    Interesting thread though on spotting the starlink train. Thanks OP


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    #53
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,480 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    listermint wrote: »
    Lol for someone with the name IT hailing starlink making fibre broadband to the home irrelevant I'd do some reading. Starlink most definitely has a place in the world and commercially sound.

    Replacing Ireland's fibre network isn't it. It's encouraging to see IT people think this way.. not.

    No one is saying replacing existing fiber cable! Where did anyone say that?!

    What people are questioning is the NBP, which is the 3 billion plan to bring fibre to rural areas of Ireland. NON of this fibre has been rolled out yet.

    Of course that contract for the NBP has been signed, so it is probably too late to do anything about it. While in the end NBP will hopefully deliver high quality broadband to rural Ireland, mark my words, it will be a Childrens Hospital mark 2, likely cost a lot more then 3 billion (which we can't really afford now given COVID19) and likely almost as good service could have been delivered by Starlink for a fraction of the cost of the NBP.


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    #54
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    For things like streaming movies, maybe, for anything that's interactive, the ping times will be horrific, so very little use for gaming, and not a lot of fun for things like on line banking, or other apps that are interactive. Another aspect is how the uplink will be managed, it's one thing to have high power directional dishes at a main base station, it will be another issue altogether to manage an uplink at a residential level. There's a lot of aspects of the ground station that "have yet to be finalised", which would make me very nervous about their timescales.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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    #55
    air
    Registered Users Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭air


    Irish Steve wrote: »
    For things like streaming movies, maybe, for anything that's interactive, the ping times will be horrific, so very little use for gaming, and not a lot of fun for things like on line banking, or other apps that are interactive. Another aspect is how the uplink will be managed, it's one thing to have high power directional dishes at a main base station, it will be another issue altogether to manage an uplink at a residential level. There's a lot of aspects of the ground station that "have yet to be finalised", which would make me very nervous about their timescales.

    Excellent ping times are one of the main motivations for launching this network. These satellites orbit at only 340km altitude, not 35,786 kilometres as for traditional geostationary satellites.

    Furthermore light travels a lot quicker in a vacuum than it does in glass (fibre optic cables).

    SpaceX expect to make billions selling low latency links to financial institutions to give them an edge in high frequency trading.

    Finally the ground station antennas are already designed, they're about the size of a pizza box and use an element array to achieve directionality. They will be low cost and have no moving parts.

    Both Wikipedia and Youtube have very good information on how Starlink will work and the advantages it offers.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giQ8xEWjnBs


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    #56
    SlowBlowin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    danny004 wrote: »
    so how do you know if its the train or a single satellite as there are so many numbers after starlink like starlink -1202
    when will it come around again in the evening

    Each Spacex launch lofts 60 Starlink satellites in to a "parking orbit". Over the course of the next few weeks the satellites fire their engines and put themselves in their relevant "higher "orbits.

    In this period they pass points on earth as a "train", a long line of satellites all following the same orbit. So the trains are only visible as a train during this post launch window, as they gradually disperse and raise their altitude and change position relative to each other.

    When using a tracker, such as www.heavens-above.com, you need to select the latest launch, and to see the train in its glory it must be as close to the launch date as possible, each day that passes the satellites get dimmer, and more spread out.


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    #57
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,133 ✭✭✭plodder


    When this country was dirt poor we were able to run copper telephone cables the length and breadth of the land, up every laneway no matter how remote. So, I think we should be able to do the same with fibre. I've always believed that the Irish rural settlement pattern is uniquely suited to fibre (unlike truly sparsely populated areas in say US or Australia). And to that extent I support the NBP. The trouble with it is that it's being rushed. It was never feasible before fibre became possible and fibre has only been deployed a few years at this stage here. There's no question that commercial operators would have got around to cover much more of the country with no subsidy required. So, while it is costing us, I think it has to be accepted that fibre is the technology of choice for decades to come, for 99%+ of the country.

    Like 3G, 4G, 5G, N+1G is always the next greatest thing in wireless, yet it never delivers the promise of being a replacement for fibre broadband. I'm equally sceptical of the unproven claims made for low orbit satellite systems like this, not with respect to latency, but capacity and scalability.


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    #58
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,643 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    bk wrote: »
    No one is saying replacing existing fiber cable! Where did anyone say that?!

    What people are questioning is the NBP, which is the 3 billion plan to bring fibre to rural areas of Ireland. NON of this fibre has been rolled out yet.

    Of course that contract for the NBP has been signed, so it is probably too late to do anything about it. While in the end NBP will hopefully deliver high quality broadband to rural Ireland, mark my words, it will be a Childrens Hospital mark 2, likely cost a lot more then 3 billion (which we can't really afford now given COVID19) and likely almost as good service could have been delivered by Starlink for a fraction of the cost of the NBP.

    The fact you've said this means 100% you dont have a notion of the technologies we are discussing here and their limitations.

    Starlink is no substitute for fiber in the ground, in fact its not even fully rolled out. God knows when it will be and it certainly wont be in time to fix our residential problems.

    Its almost if everyone is filled with MUSK speak. I like the man but hes not infallible. Starlink has other purposes. providing a WFH option in rural ireland isnt it.

    And anyone who is spouting this stuff id really question their credentials on it because its usually coming from urban dwellers with an existing fibre or cable line from EIR or Virgin Media........


    Genuine question - Whats your home connection?


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    #59
    SlowBlowin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    I currently pay a premium for a wireless connection to my mountain home. I have tried 3G 4G, I am not in coverage of any other service (LTE etc).


    I get about 3 Mbs at the very best, and it will go down during periods of bad weather. Over the past 8 years, fibre has always been 12-24 months away, I don't believe it will every make it up here, based on my experience of a decade of promises that have never been delivered.

    For me the Starlink service, if it lives up to its promises, will be fantastic.

    I too have concerns about its scaleability, and the possibility of (like other satellite services) being over subscribed, but it seems the way services will be delivered in the future which SpaceX, OneWeb, Amazon and other planning similar constellations.

    If spacex get the laser comms working as intended, It will be a misconception that starlink will be slower than fibre, signals in space travel 50% faster than fibre (speed of light in fibre as opposed to speed of light in space), the satellites are very low, for many long paths will be faster over starlink than fibre.

    Because of this fact regulatory bodies are looking closely at Starlink, as it could give some automated trading platforms a significant edge when trading over long distances.


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    #60
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,480 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    listermint wrote: »
    The fact you've said this means 100% you dont have a notion of the technologies we are discussing here and their limitations.

    Mod of the Broadband forum, committee member of IrelandOffLine fighting for Broadband in Ireland for years and I have no idea what I'm talking about!! :rolleyes:


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    #61
    roran
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭roran


    bk wrote: »
    Though it will likely end up showing the NBP to be horrible value for money. These could have delivered close to the same for a fraction of the cost of the NBP.
    bk wrote: »
    Mod of the Broadband forum, committee member of IrelandOffLine fighting for Broadband in Ireland for years and I have no idea what I'm talking about!! :rolleyes:

    A few years ago I looked into getting broadband from Niall Quinn's Company (- can't now recall their name), but at least they were honest enough to let me know that speeds that they were offering was depending on 'line-of-sight' with the satellite. As we have a fair share of cloud cover, my connection might be occasional on the odd clear day! I decided to opt for 'iffy' 3G mobile!!
    What has changed in the interim that NBP will be shown up as 'horrible value'? ...and believe me, I was never in favour of €3 billion, but if it's all we can get in rural Ireland!!


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