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Schools closed until undetermined date - was March 29th

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  • #422
    zeebre12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 566 ✭✭✭zeebre12


    Regarding primary my principal has said as few children would have books to keep them going school work wise for weeks to come that a day could be arranged for collection of books and parents/students would have a time to collect books. Is this even allowed?


  • #423
    Millem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/junior-cert-could-be-cancelled-to-prioritise-leaving-cert-written-exams-1.4207850?mode=amp


  • #424
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 35,146 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Gerry T wrote: »
    England is a cop-out, how will they do 3rd level places, it's a mess. Their more interested in keeping industry moving. Kids don't need to do on-line classes so parents are free to work. Younger kids stay with grandparents (infecting them). Meanwhile their pubs etc remain open. Their heading to be the next Italy at the way their going.
    I think we should stop holding the UK up as an example of how to do things, look at how they've handled things since 2016, enough said.

    Correct. Anyone holding England as an example of what to do really needs their heads examined.
    They are utterly clueless. They are creating more problems than they are solving. They just dont know it yet.
    Brexit anyone?


  • #425
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 35,146 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Millem wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/junior-cert-could-be-cancelled-to-prioritise-leaving-cert-written-exams-1.4207850?mode=amp

    Prioritising the LC is definitely the way to go. Running both exams might not be possible, but coupled with the decision on the orals might give them the flexibility they need given the time constraints- especially cao offers.


  • #426
    Lc2020
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 108 ✭✭Lc2020


    Gerry T wrote: »
    England is a cop-out, how will they do 3rd level places, it's a mess. Their more interested in keeping industry moving.

    Ironically the Irish government made a decision to cancel the orals and practicals that was heavily based on economics. So one is just as bad as the other.


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  • #427
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 35,146 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    Ironically the Irish government made a decision to cancel the orals and practicals that was heavily based on economics. So one is just as bad as the other.

    Heavily based on economics? How do you work that out.

    Heavily based on practicalities and the reality of the current situation surely.


  • #428
    acequion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭✭acequion


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    Ironically the Irish government made a decision to cancel the orals and practicals that was heavily based on economics. So one is just as bad as the other.

    You need to calm yourself down.NOW.

    You've been in a constant tantrum since yesterday's announcement and are getting tiresome!

    I'm no fan of Fine Gael but hat off to our Govt in the way they have handled this crisis! I feel a trillion times safer in Ireland.

    While you're harping on ad nauseum about the orals and your LC there is turmoil going on all over the world.TURMOIL. And god only knows what further bad news we're about to get in today's press conference. And that's not even starting on the economic implications to come!

    Count yourself lucky you're healthy and that your loved ones are too. And give the moaning a rest!


  • #429
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    P1ssing away all those Croke Park hours coming home to roost now.


  • #430
    Moody_mona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭Moody_mona


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    England is much more forthcoming with information to students. A levels and GCSEs cancelled and students' minds are put at ease. Meanwhile in Ireland, we have a minister who adds to students' strife by instigating this unfair system.

    Your energy would be better spent elsewhere, this decision has been made. If you would like help with any of your subjects, make contact with your teachers or ask anyone here, they're very willing to help. Have a nice weekend.


  • #431
    heldel00
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭heldel00


    zeebre12 wrote: »
    Regarding primary my principal has said as few children would have books to keep them going school work wise for weeks to come that a day could be arranged for collection of books and parents/students would have a time to collect books. Is this even allowed?

    I'll be doing this next week. I'll be bagging up their books, writing their number on the front (each child in my class has a number 1-27) and leaving them along path outside classroom door. Parents will be text to ask them to collect and observe social distancing...


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  • #432
    Millem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    heldel00 wrote: »
    I'll be doing this next week. I'll be bagging up their books, writing their number on the front (each child in my class has a number 1-27) and leaving them along path outside classroom door. Parents will be text to ask them to collect and observe social distancing...

    I got an email today from our primary school to say the hse have said this is not allowed. He gave us the codes for the online books.

    They are setting up Aladdin app next week where we log in each day for work.


  • #433
    randylonghorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,509 ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    Well clearly they think it'll be over by the end of the Easter holidays ...
    I honestly don't think they do. Certainly if McHugh does, it's pretty obvious that Harris, Varadkar and Coveney don't.

    And the more that I look at the curves from other countries, the more I think that we'll be up to our neck in it around that time. (Disclaimer: personal opinion, not a medical expert of any type).
    ShamoBuc wrote: »
    Correct. Anyone holding England as an example of what to do really needs their heads examined.
    They are utterly clueless. They are creating more problems than they are solving. They just dont know it yet.
    Brexit anyone?
    Exactly.

    UK and US have the misfortune of being led into this by two egomaniacal over-grown schoolboys.

    One thought "herd immunity" was the best solution to the virus, the other told us that it was just a bad 'flu and that any attempt to say otherwise was the media out to get him with more "fake news". Both drawing in their horns now, but the valuable time lost will cost lives.

    I'm no FG fanboy, but apart from the stupid decision not to close the pubs when they closed the schools, our lot have been doing a fair bit better at least.


  • #434
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,412 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    The department should just put us out of our misery and cancel the written exams. As it stands, I can go into a music exam and write nothing and still come out with 55 points. The integrity of the leaving cert exams has been compromised to such an extent that I just don't see the point in bothering with them.

    No one is going to force you to sit the exams in June, but if you feel that strongly about it you can sit them out, repeat the year, and watch all your friends head off to college in the autumn.


  • #435
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,412 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    This is not an overreaction. I'm merely pointing out the ramifications of the minister's highly flawed solution. It does not take the pressure off of students, I can tell you that. Students who were going to do well in the orals, and have that edge over other students, will now be deprived of this advantage going into the written exams.

    Come June, if the LC is cancelled, will the minister's "tried and tested", and "fair" solution be applied with all students being given 100 % ?Where will this leave us ?

    To suggest this is a good solution is to turn a blind eye to the work thousands of students did in preparation for these exams.

    You know, in life outside school, sometimes we work really hard for something and then it doesn't happen. The person who spends months or years training for a sporting event and then gets an injury before they were due to take part. The person who studied for various qualifications and had just been offered the dream job, but then got news that a family member was sick and they had to turn down the offer to look after them. The person who worked incredibly hard to set up a new business for themselves recently and now finds that the business they worked so hard for will go to the wall before it's even had a chance because of coronavirus.

    In the greater scheme of things being awarded 40% for an exam you didn't have to sit is quite good.

    So you can spend your time whinging on this thread about the unfairness of it all, or you can consider that you have 40% in the bag, lots of other students who don't really care about Irish are going to sit back and provide you with the opportunity to show how good you really are. If you are that good at oral Irish then that skill with the language is transferable to the written exam. It's one less exam component to worry about.


  • #436
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,412 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    This will cost some students their college course.
    You don't mess with an exam students have been preparing for night and day.
    The LC and orals should be postponed. Not cancelled. Not predicted grades. Postpone them until it's safe to do them.

    How do you know that???? Any proof??


  • #437
    Rosita
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Rosita


    Lc2020 wrote: »

    The minister is doing a disservice to the students who actually did work.


    Far from it. A H1 is now available at a mere 84%. If the orals were disregarded and the written/aural marked from 100% a H1 candidate would need 90% to get over the line.

    The person who jumps from a O7 to a O4 as a consequence should hardly bother the “high achiever” for whom full marks really matter.


  • #438
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,412 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    Well clearly they think it'll be over by the end of the Easter holidays if they're going through with other practicals/project work. Would it really be too much to ask the SEC to organise the orals in May? No it wouldn't. Minister can't be arsed and is looking for a quick fix solution.

    You haven't a bulls notion what you are talking about.

    They've pushed out the date for the moment. They don't know if we will be open after Easter or not. It largely depends on how many f*ckwits continue to spend their time socialising in groups and being vectors for C19. The curve could flatten here in the next couple of weeks, we could also end up like Italy.

    The first two weeks of May are given over to practicals for Engineering, Art, Construction Studies, Agricultural Science and the LCVP exam. It's jammers. I examine one of those subjects and it can be a juggling exercise when you are trying to organise a date in some schools that offer several of those subjects and have students sitting several of those subjects. The two week window for all those subjects was due to start April 27th. Given that the submission date for project work is May 15th, there isn't a hope that practicals will take place the week after it. To run all those practicals before the end of May would require schools to leave their non exam classes at home to get the exam classes over the line in my opinion. And you want to lump the orals and music practicals in on top of them as well?

    Also the minister is not the person making decisions like that. The minister is a representative for government. He would have had meetings with all the various stakeholders before this decision was reached. Those stakeholders would have probably included representatives from the Dept of Education, State Exams Commission, CAO, the various third level colleges, possibly the Teaching Council/ Teachers Unions. I don't know, I'd only being making an educated guess. He didn't just get up yesterday morning and go 'f*ck it, we'll cancel the orals'

    Anyone who has ever marked papers over the summer will tell you that decisions are not taken lightly by the SEC. This is an unprecedented situation and a decision which is unlikely ever to be repeated in my teaching career I suspect.


  • #439
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,412 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    Ironically the Irish government made a decision to cancel the orals and practicals that was heavily based on economics. So one is just as bad as the other.

    Really? They would have had to pay the examiners anyway, as they do every year. Several of my friends were due to go out as examiners and had their list of schools and made arrangements for the dates already.


  • #440
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,412 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    You know, I had no idea what the grade breakdown was like for the various subjects that have had their practicals cancelled.


    I've only looked at Higher Level where they are far more likely to be used for points.

    Irish
    • H6: 9.6%
    • H7: 2.8%
    • H8: 0.4%

    French
    • H7: 3.7%
    • H8: 0.6%

    German:
    • H7:5.5%
    • H8: 2.0%

    Spanish is similar to German and Italian to French

    Music
    • H6: 1.8%
    • H7: 0.4%
    • H8: 0.1%


    In the greater scheme of things, the failure rate in these subjects is incredibly low at Higher Level and while the free marks will push the curve up a bit, the curve was already quite high. 70% of all Music candidates get a grade H1-H3 already.


  • #441
    Random sample
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭Random sample


    I would hate to see an announcement made anytime soon about the junior cert being cancelled. Whatever chance I have of getting my third years to tip along with a bit of work over the next few weeks, it would be zero if they weren’t working towards something.


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  • #442
    Lc2020
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 108 ✭✭Lc2020


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    You haven't a bulls notion what you are talking about.

    They've pushed out the date for the moment. They don't know if we will be open after Easter or not. It largely depends on how many f*ckwits continue to spend their time socialising in groups and being vectors for C19. The curve could flatten here in the next couple of weeks, we could also end up like Italy.

    The first two weeks of May are given over to practicals for Engineering, Art, Construction Studies, Agricultural Science and the LCVP exam. It's jammers. I examine one of those subjects and it can be a juggling exercise when you are trying to organise a date in some schools that offer several of those subjects and have students sitting several of those subjects. The two week window for all those subjects was due to start April 27th. Given that the submission date for project work is May 15th, there isn't a hope that practicals will take place the week after it. To run all those practicals before the end of May would require schools to leave their non exam classes at home to get the exam classes over the line in my opinion. And you want to lump the orals and music practicals in on top of them as well?

    Also the minister is not the person making decisions like that. The minister is a representative for government. He would have had meetings with all the various stakeholders before this decision was reached. Those stakeholders would have probably included representatives from the Dept of Education, State Exams Commission, CAO, the various third level colleges, possibly the Teaching Council/ Teachers Unions. I don't know, I'd only being making an educated guess. He didn't just get up yesterday morning and go 'f*ck it, we'll cancel the orals'

    Anyone who has ever marked papers over the summer will tell you that decisions are not taken lightly by the SEC. This is an unprecedented situation and a decision which is unlikely ever to be repeated in my teaching career I suspect.

    I would have thought that oral exams would pose less of a risk that the written exams. If supermarkets can manage it then why couldn't the SEC organise a system wherby one student would be let into the school at a time etc. It's not rocket science.
    The decision made yesterday is devoid of reason and logic.


  • #443
    Lc2020
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 108 ✭✭Lc2020


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    You know, I had know idea what the grade breakdown was like for the various subjects that have had their practicals cancelled.


    I've only looked at Higher Level where they are far more likely to be used for points.

    Irish
    • H6: 9.6%
    • H7: 2.8%
    • H8: 0.4%

    French
    • H7: 3.7%
    • H8: 0.6%

    German:
    • H7:5.5%
    • H8: 2.0%

    Spanish is similar to German and Italian to French

    Music
    • H6: 1.8%
    • H7: 0.4%
    • H8: 0.1%


    In the greater scheme of things, the failure rate in these subjects is incredibly low at Higher Level and while the free marks will push the curve up a bit, the curve was already quite high. 70% of all Music candidates get a grade H1-H3 already.

    Students will use Irish for matriculation purposes. Students looking to pass English/Irish to get into say TCD, have fulfilled their requirements without any formal exam. Fair? Not at all.

    To say this won't disadvantage students is incorrect. You can be assured the marking scheme will be ruthless for students, which only adds to our worries.


  • #444
    Lc2020
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 108 ✭✭Lc2020


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Really? They would have had to pay the examiners anyway, as they do every year. Several of my friends were due to go out as examiners and had their list of schools and made arrangements for the dates already.

    I assume the SEC will adjust the leaving cert fee considering practicals/orals will not take place. What with economics not being a factor in the decision..


  • #445
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 35,146 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    I would have thought that oral exams would pose less of a risk that the written exams. If supermarkets can manage it then why couldn't the SEC organise a system wherby one student would be let into the school at a time etc. It's not rocket science.
    The decision made yesterday is devoid of reason and logic.

    There is both reason and logic.

    You just cant see it.

    Let it go, what's done is done, concentrate on your work.


  • #446
    Lc2020
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 108 ✭✭Lc2020


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    How do you know that???? Any proof??

    Points will inevitably skyrocket for courses if Joe McHugh has his way.


  • #447
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 35,146 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    I assume the SEC will adjust the leaving cert fee considering practicals/orals will not take place. What with economics not being a factor in the decision..

    The Leaving Cert fee??

    Turn on the news for 5 mins. Get a grip on reality.

    I'm done responding to you.


  • #448
    Rosita
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Rosita


    Random sample wrote: »
    I would hate to see an announcement made anytime soon about the junior cert being cancelled. Whatever chance I have of getting my third years to tip along with a bit of work over the next few weeks, it would be zero if they weren’t working towards something.[/QUOTE

    And I have to say I wouldn’t blame them either. If I were 15 and had no exam and was confined to home, I wouldn’t see the point of being harassed for school work.


  • #449
    Shn99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Shn99


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    I would have thought that oral exams would pose less of a risk that the written exams. If supermarkets can manage it then why couldn't the SEC organise a system wherby one student would be let into the school at a time etc. It's not rocket science.
    The decision made yesterday is devoid of reason and logic.

    If your such an expert in this lane, you better get onto the SEC to become their next exam advisor, and for the record they have a job listing for a new Chief Exec too!


  • #450
    Lc2020
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 108 ✭✭Lc2020


    ShamoBuc wrote: »
    The Leaving Cert fee??

    Turn on the news for 5 mins. Get a grip on reality.

    I'm done responding to you.

    Taking the moral highground, how very noble of you. Given the suffering that takes place on a global level every day I assume you never complain about what you see as unjust ?


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  • #451
    Random sample
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭Random sample


    Rosita wrote: »
    Random sample wrote: »
    I would hate to see an announcement made anytime soon about the junior cert being cancelled. Whatever chance I have of getting my third years to tip along with a bit of work over the next few weeks, it would be zero if they weren’t working towards something.[/QUOTE

    And I have to say I wouldn’t blame them either. If I were 15 and had no exam and was confined to home, I wouldn’t see the point of being harassed for school work.

    Nor me. I’m getting a bit of work off all kids at the minute, even ty’s are enjoying the novelty of online learning. I don’t think it would be good for one group to do nothing for 5 months though.


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