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CoVid-19 Part VIII - 292 cases ROI (2 deaths) 62 in NI (as of 17th March) *Read OP*

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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor


    Xertz wrote: »
    The threat clearly was not understood by anyone in Europe or the US. There was a lot of dithering by all of the major players.

    The Irish government was likely working from best advice from the WHO and EU agencies and probably peer countries too.

    This is what terrifies me. How can a gobshyte (me) sitting in front of the TV understand it immediately (and I dare say an 11 year old child wouldn't be far behind) yet experts didn't?

    It was spreading like the Plague right before our eyes!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Cilldara_2000


    I shouldn't have brought this on myself, I forgot the level of nit-picking that you'll resort to just to get a rise out of someone. I was referring to the jump from low to high from the Friday evening to Monday morning.

    I was referring to what your man outlined on 31 January. It was objectively true at the time as we can now see. I’m very sorry for not being able to telepathically absorb the unwritten meaning of your posts so unfortunately I’ll have to stick to clarity and discussing what posters actually write in their posts rather than trying to guess what they actually meant but didn’t write.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,116 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Hi All,

    Hope everyone coping as best they can. Quick Q; has anyone seen a stance on how CV can effect pregnant women? Are they in the same category as the elderly? I am in South America with my pregnant wife and may opt for her to stay here when i travel home this week. I have heard some hearsay that the virus will spread less rapidly in a hot country?? This could be absolute BS though?

    Check with your doctor or HSE Live - not enough evidence
    Warm weather doesn't seem to make any difference


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40 Sausage_blaa


    Point remains. Still very simple to stop flights immediately coming from virus hotspots. Their inaction for the first month on that point alone has brought about this crisis.

    Too late now. No point giving out about what could have been done, now its what we can do to stop it getting worse!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Cilldara_2000


    Hi All,

    Hope everyone coping as best they can. Quick Q; has anyone seen a stance on how CV can effect pregnant women? Are they in the same category as the elderly? I am in South America with my pregnant wife and may opt for her to stay here when i travel home this week. I have heard some hearsay that the virus will spread less rapidly in a hot country?? This could be absolute BS though?

    Not too many of us qualified to give medical advice here and it’s against site rules to do so.

    The HSE have a page on it: https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/coronavirus-and-pregnancy.html

    The hot country thing is likely to be internet bs. I doubt any relevant scientist/medical person could say yet.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,734 ✭✭✭sheroman01


    Hi All,

    Hope everyone coping as best they can. Quick Q; has anyone seen a stance on how CV can effect pregnant women? Are they in the same category as the elderly? I am in South America with my pregnant wife and may opt for her to stay here when i travel home this week. I have heard some hearsay that the virus will spread less rapidly in a hot country?? This could be absolute BS though?

    You’re abroad, with your pregnant wife, in the middle of a pandemic...and you’re asking for advice on boards. Good lord. As the poster above said, contact relevant professionals. The HSE or DFA may be decent places to try.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor


    Being an Island means nothing. Look at Britain, look at Iceland. Irish people are entitled to enter the country so the airports are open. The virus would arrive here through the North anyway, even if they were closed. It is in every country in Europe now. Instead of looking backwards, start to look forward. What have you done to prevent the spread? Anybody who thinks we could be sitting here with zero cases is on cloud cukcoo land.

    Who said anything about zero cases?

    Why on earth would you continue to allow flights come in unimpeded from virus hotspots when it was so obvious how contagious it was?
    Instead of looking backwards, start to look forward.
    Sorry but what they did was worse than gross incompetence. How can you tell people who saw what was coming a mile away to just forget about it after our Govt brought about this awful unfolding scenario by doing nothing?

    I can't get it around my head why they didn't shut it off at source as best they could, thus slowing its arrival immensely.
    The virus would arrive from the north anyway

    You're having a laugh aren't ye? So it makes no difference in your mind whether a few cases arrive vs hundreds, possibly thousands around the same time?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    BLIZZARD7 wrote: »
    I hope you're right but its equally possible come August we are scrambling to prepare for wave 2 coming in the Autumn/early winter...

    Also this isn't comparable economically or politically to 9/11, this is far closer to 1929 in scale.

    The shock might be closer to 1929, but the global economy isn’t.

    Wave 2 won’t catch us by surprise either.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    This is what terrifies me. How can a gobshyte (me) sitting in front of the TV understand it immediately (and I dare say an 11 year old child wouldn't be far behind) yet experts didn't?

    It was spreading like the Plague right before our eyes!!!

    Because they had to weigh up risks and make a call based on evidence and advice and did not really understand the scale and urgency of this. Absolutely nobody in government or anywhere else wanted this to happen or intended it to. They assumed they were doing enough and that assumption was coming from technical advice, which also changed rapidly as the situation evolved.

    If you look right across the world, including the early days of the outbreak in China, the same pattern applies. It was assumed to be ok then all of a sudden reality of the scale of it dawned and then you’ve a crisis and a major reaction to mitigate it.

    Unfortunately, that’s the reality of a complex organisation dealing with an unprecedented issue that it has no experience of.

    None of us have signifiant experience of an outbreak like this. China may have had more history if it with SARS but that wasn’t nearly as bad but they did at least have some sense of how it’s dealt with.

    You’ve also got a history of many decades where we have been able to deal with pretty much any problem thrown at the health system with readily available high tech drugs and science.

    In this case we’re basically back in 1916 medicine without any access to a magic bullet that will make it all go away.

    It’s not comparable to slow burn epidemics like HIV.

    Really you’re looking at an outbreak that’s certainly not been seen since the polio era in the 1950s.

    All developed world countries’ health systems are focused on complex, high tech medicine for treating things like cancer and cardiovascular issues and so on. We’re not at all geared up to treat large % of the population like this. It’s really war time medicine, just with a pathogen not a physical war.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,116 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Hi All,

    Hope everyone coping as best they can. Quick Q; has anyone seen a stance on how CV can effect pregnant women? Are they in the same category as the elderly? I am in South America with my pregnant wife and may opt for her to stay here when i travel home this week. I have heard some hearsay that the virus will spread less rapidly in a hot country?? This could be absolute BS though?

    There is one case in London where a woman has just given birth - the child tested positive but that could have been/was very likely an infection after birth

    Maybe follow that story to see what happens - no child under 9 has died from it


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,210 ✭✭✭Mervyn Skidmore


    Point remains. Still very simple to stop flights immediately coming from virus hotspots. Their inaction for the first month on that point alone has brought about this crisis.

    How do you know it wasn't an Irish person that brought the virus here? There are plenty of Irish people in China. Said Irish person could actually be the one who contracted the virus in the first place. If it was so simple to stop, why is it a pandemic now. Surely every country in the world should've closed their borders the day the virus was first reported too?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,615 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    We’re not an island nation.
    Being an Island means nothing. Look at Britain, look at Iceland. Irish people are entitled to enter the country so the airports are open. The virus would arrive here through the North anyway, even if they were closed.

    ironic that the first case in Northern Ireland came through the Republic


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Viruses don't tend to announce their arrival at customs - if you really believe suddenly stopping flights once it took off in Italy would have stopped it entering Ireland then you are deluded.
    Again, nobody said it would stop it coming in completely. But the cases would've been far fewer and much more easily containable.

    fritzelly wrote: »
    Spain and Italy's first reported case was 31st January - do you wanna go back 6 weeks and tell everyone to close their borders now because it wouldn't make a difference bar to have slowed down the spread at the start and maybe 3 months later it blows up instead of a month later.

    4 weeks ago it was apparent it was spreading out of control, particularly in northern Italy. At that point all flights from Italy, save bringing Irish passengers home and having them go through the regular procedures, should've been stopped.

    Perhaps I missed maths class but how is greatly limiting the amount of infected people coming in no different to allowing 10 or 20 times that number (I would say perhaps 100's of times that number considering the amount of flights that have since been allowed in) to arrive?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,074 ✭✭✭skimpydoo




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    ironic that the first case in Northern Ireland came through the Republic

    Hardly. Dublin Airport is the third busiest in these islands, after Heathrow and Gatwick. A significant number of passengers from 2 hours up the road use it. It provides a very decent array of connections.

    All this talk of islands and disconnecting deeply interconnected systems is, frankly not going to make much sense.

    We need to massively improve the communication and preparedness on a global scale though. This cannot be allowed to ever happen again.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor


    How do you know it wasn't an Irish person that brought the virus here? There are plenty of Irish people in China. Said Irish person could actually be the one who contracted the virus in the first place.
    So what? That's irrelevant to the point of brining in hundreds more.

    If it was so simple to stop, why is it a pandemic now. Surely every country in the world should've closed their borders the day the virus was first reported too?

    Not the first day but as soon as they found out where it was coming from and they'd sealed off the area. You are right, its been handled very badly all over.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,038 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    Xertz wrote: »
    The threat clearly was not understood by anyone in Europe or the US. There was a lot of dithering by all of the major players.
    Someone posted this link earlier. Running it will kill your fecking computer, but it gives an idea of how long the world outside China had to get their **** together.

    https://efhiii.github.io/COVID-19/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,210 ✭✭✭Mervyn Skidmore


    Again, nobody said it would stop it coming in completely. But the cases would've been far fewer and much more easily containable

    You do realise that this entire pandemic started with 1 case? 1.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    You do realise that this entire pandemic started with 1 case? 1.

    Sure every disease we know has a point of entry into the human population. Some have just been with us for a very long time and we’ve become adapted to the point the relationship is almost benign - common cold etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 125 ✭✭speckled_park


    Is it fair to go to work when you live with vulnerable people? I dont want to go but will probably have to. I don't want to risk bringing home the virus to my parents as there immune systems would be somewhat weak compared to others due to different diseases over the years eg diabetes, heart disease and cancer.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,210 ✭✭✭Mervyn Skidmore


    Xertz wrote: »
    Sure every disease we know has a point of entry into the human population. Some have just been with us for a very long time and we’ve become adapted to the point the relationship is almost benign - common cold etc.

    So how can you identify a pandemic over a common cold type? The first couple of hundred cases of covid 19 could've been in young people with little or no symptoms. At that stage it's probably gone out of control.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 336 ✭✭ThePopehimself


    We’re not an island nation.

    ?

    What are you saying?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,262 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    maebee wrote: »
    I hear ya, as Ciara Kelly says. Ppl say all the time that they had the flu, probably not, bad cold. As a family, we got the flu about 20 years ago, horrendous,all fevered and shaking, high temperatures etc. That was a flu. This Corona is something else

    Pet peeve in work,,,"I am dying of the flu" no dude you wouldn't be working if you had the flu.

    You have a runny nose which is annoying but not the ****ing flu. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    On the markets and economic impact side of this, I am optimistic. I just think it’s going to take a very radical solution to bring it about and I don’t think the 2008 IMF and ECB “medicine” (grinding internal deflation) will be the solution applied, simply because it’s impacted all western countries simultaneously and the big influential ones won’t accept that.

    It’s one area where the Euro could prove to be hugely important as it’s a huge currency where the central bank and commercial banking systems may well generate money out of nowhere.

    Can you imagine the pressure that would be piling on now if we were still using IEP?! Our purchasing power would disappear very rapidly.

    The USD always had a massive advantage as it was a measure of intrinsic value with other currencies being tied to its value under the Bretton Woods system and when the US basically printed money in the 70s they were able to do so without massive inflation.

    The Euro can just through huge scale and the fact it’s also a reference measure of value at this stage is able to do similar. So is China and to a degree maybe Japan. Anything smaller than that and you’re a midsized non reserve currency and if you print it will devalue rapidly.

    There are an awful lot of smoke and mirrors in banking and the truly powerful currencies and nations (or blocs) can rewrite the rules of the game.

    The the US and EU are also huge diverse markets that can operate largely self contained or they want. A huge % of their trade is with their own consumers. China is moving slowly that way with a growing consumer economy.

    I’d the Eurozone & EU move in unison we could be rebuilt quite rapidly compared to 2008.

    My sense it that you’ll see a huge fiscal move by the Fed and ECB, pulling out every central bank tool and trick in the book to magic this way.

    The U.K. risks big problems as sterling has gone very wobbly.

    I really do think though you’re looking at a history books type global fiscal change happening over the next 12 months to undo this mess.

    My only concern is Trump in the middle of something that needs to be multilateral is going to be “interesting”. He’s always looking for advantage, never friendly partnership.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Cilldara_2000


    ?

    What are you saying?

    There’s this thing called a border that the Brits imposed on us about 100 years ago. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. ;)

    Srsly though, the post I replied to was crying about how easy it would have been to close off because we’re an island nation. Given that the Irish government do not control the whole island, they simply couldn’t have.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,059 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Rob A. Bank


    Xertz wrote: »
    The only way an island nation would have been any safer from this is if it had no contact with the outside world and that’s really a description of few societies other than perhaps North Korea, or very remote parts like Antarctica.

    The only “islands” in this context would be places nobody goes. Ireland is the polar opposite to that. It’s extremely well connected and made itself what it is by being a hub of trade and finance on those global networks.

    Islands are irrelevant, other than perhaps for wildlife bio security. Humans don’t stay in one place long.

    You are mistaken... take Taiwan (pop 23.8 Million).

    An island half the size of Ireland 80 miles off the Chinese mainland, with a HUGE expat community in China, with many of them coming home for the Lunar New Year festival in January.

    They started their preventive measures on 31 December 2019 when there were just 27 confirmed cases in China. They had their first case on 21 January.

    They even had the visit of passengers from the death ship, the cruise liner Diamond Princess, before it sailed on to Japan.

    They were badly affected by the SARS epidemic and kept their surveillance system on mothballs. They were able to forensically trace contacts and quarantined all suspect cases who arrived on the island. They have temp screening everywhere and their government providing masks for everyone weekly also helped.

    They have so far managed to keep confirmed cases to 67 with one death, 20 recovered and none in a serious condition.

    An example we could follow for the next pandemic


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    Again though you’re talking about a country that experienced SARS. We didn’t and none of Europe or the US did.

    Maybe we’ll be more aware like they were in the future but, for now we are where we are based on the understanding we had at the time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    You are mistaken... take Taiwan (pop 23.8 Million).

    An island half the size of Ireland 80 miles off the Chinese mainland, with a HUGE expat community in China, with many of them coming home for the Lunar New Year festival in January.

    They started their preventive measures on 31 December 2019 when there were just 27 confirmed cases in China. They had their first case on 21 January.

    They even had the visit of passengers from the death ship, the cruise liner Diamond Princess, before it sailed on to Japan.

    They were badly affected by the SARS epidemic and kept their surveillance system on mothballs. They were able to forensically trace contacts and quarantined all suspect cases who arrived on the island. They have temp screening everywhere and their government providing masks for everyone weekly also helped.

    They have so far managed to keep confirmed cases to 67 with one death, 20 recovered and none in a serious condition.

    An example we could follow for the next pandemic

    Taiwan is a super little country in a very difficult spot, and has been since Kissinger and Nixon decided to throw them under the bus to try to make pals with the Chinese Communist Party.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 336 ✭✭ThePopehimself


    There’s this thing called a border that the Brits imposed on us about 100 years ago. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. ;)

    Srsly though, the post I replied to was crying about how easy it would have been to close off because we’re an island nation. Given that the Irish government do not control the whole island, they simply couldn’t have.

    Okay, first off, no need to be a Sm'Arse...;)....

    Second paragraph...agreed. Oh t'were so simple.


This discussion has been closed.
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