Coronavirus Part V - 34 cases in ROI, 16 in NI (as of 10 March) Read warnings in OP

08-03-2020 03:37PM

Pacing Mule wrote: »

Maybe "confirmation" takes a couple of days of paper work or something. But when you've health care professionals who work in a specific hospital telling family off the record not to go to said hospital because of multiple cases being diagnosed in that hospital, and then that night we get told 1 case was diagnosed in the previous 24 hours you have to question the accuracy of the official reports.

I've seen no evidence of them not releasing confirmed cases. Albeit, we have had none in my hospital. I have heard multiple rumours of people been infected which have turned out to be false. Also, I find it bizarre that a HCP would advise somebody not to go to a hospital because of a rumour.

As an example, if somebody is suffering from sepsis, time is critical. By going to a hospital a further amount of time away, you are increasing the risk of dying. Can't remember off the top of my head but a delay in diagnosis of sepsis iof four hours ncreases risk of dying 3-4 fold.

If I found out one of my staff was giving out such dangerous advice, they would be getting an official warning because what they are saying is impacting patient safety.

ChikiChiki · 08-03-2020 03:37PM

Blueshoe wrote: »

Harris isn't in charge apparently .

He is the Minister for Health (albeit temporarily). He is in charge or at least should be.

Blueshoe · 08-03-2020 03:38PM

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Ok but with regard to the topic of this thread- would you take the advice of a minister over that of a medical professional?
If so, why?

The question wasn't who would you take advice from the point was that Simon Harris is top of the chain. He is the boss. How is that up for dispute?

stephenjmcd · 08-03-2020 03:38PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Anyone read the SARS thread from 2003 on here, the health system is going break down, back to the dark ages. Mass deaths.

So the same as this then

Blueshoe · 08-03-2020 03:40PM

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

He is and he's relying on the advice of medical professionals - how is this difficult to grasp?
It's the most logical thing to do

Going by that having elections to change ministers of health is actually pointless. It's the staff below him that need to go. We have been doing it wrong all along .

Snow Garden · 08-03-2020 03:40PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Anyone read the SARS thread from 2003 on here, the health system is going break down, back to the dark ages. Mass deaths.

Have you a link?

namloc1980 · 08-03-2020 03:40PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Anyone read the SARS thread from 2003 on here, the health system is going break down, back to the dark ages. Mass deaths.

SARS had a global number of cases of 8,000. There's nearly as many as that in northern Italy alone. 2 weeks ago Italy had a handful of cases in Lombardy. This is substantially worse than SARS every got.

dxhound2005 · 08-03-2020 03:41PM

gabeeg wrote: »

Funerals have been suspended in Italy.

Think about this for a second. Your loved one gets sick. Then gets very sick. You call the hospital. They send an ambulance. You're not allowed to go with him/her because of the risk of virus spreading and basic capacity. You rush a goodbye. Then nothing. You ring frequently to try to find out how he/she is doing, but never get any info other than he/she is still being treated. A few days pass and you get a phone call. He/she got pneumonia and passed away. They are not releasing the body and can't say if they ever will.

And weddings. Can you make up a scenario for a cancelled wedding.

MadYaker · 08-03-2020 03:42PM

gabeeg wrote: »

Funerals have been suspended in Italy.

Think about this for a second. Your loved one gets sick. Then gets very sick. You call the hospital. They send an ambulance. You're not allowed to go with him/her because of the risk of virus spreading and basic capacity. You rush a goodbye. Then nothing. You ring frequently to try to find out how he/she is doing, but never get any info other than he/she is still being treated. A few days pass and you get a phone call. He/she got pneumonia and passed away. They are not releasing the body and can't say if they ever will.

Thats a fascinating story you just made up

Poor_old_gill · 08-03-2020 03:42PM

Blueshoe wrote: »

The question wasn't who would you take advice from the point was that Simon Harris is top of the chain. He is the boss. How is that up for dispute?

It's not but the whole point of having a body like the HSE is that it provides non-party political advice and continuity no matter who the minister is.

The minister will thus always take their advice from such and when the minister is not a medical professional and the HSE is stocked with them - then it's the right thing to do.

As I said - this should be easy enough to understand/accept but you seem to want to play some game of petty point scoring as you think it will further the agenda of whatever party you support - but the truth is you dont seem to be able to comprehend how or what is going on.

Keep shouting at that cloud though

08-03-2020 03:42PM

Blueshoe wrote: »

The office staff not the foot soldiers. The office is closed at the weekends. Hospitals don't close.

Biochemistry labs would be considered part of the hospital infrastructure.

Poor_old_gill · 08-03-2020 03:43PM

Blueshoe wrote: »

Going by that having elections to change ministers of health is actually pointless. It's the staff below him that need to go. We have been doing it wrong all along .

You clearly dont understand what a minister does and what the HSE is or what it does.

circadian · 08-03-2020 03:43PM

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Nonsense - he has to rely on the advice of professionals.
You seem to have an agenda here, which is your prerogative, but dont delude yourself

Yes, he relies on the advice of professionals but ultimately the decision lies with him.

gabeeg · 08-03-2020 03:43PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Thats a fascinating story you just made up

Do you think they're going to put all the bodies on ice?

Snow Garden · 08-03-2020 03:43PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I just hope they bring in euthanasia instead having people suffer.

I think the youth in Asia have suffered enough.

MadYaker · 08-03-2020 03:43PM

Blueshoe wrote: »

Going by that having elections to change ministers of health is actually pointless. It's the staff below him that need to go. We have been doing it wrong all along .

There's an element of truth to this tbh

ChikiChiki · 08-03-2020 03:44PM

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Ok but with regard to the topic of this thread- would you take the advice of a minister over that of a medical professional?
If so, why?

The medical professional answers to the minister. Obviously, the minister should be able to make the best judgement call(s) I would hope based on the advice of more than one medical professionals as there does seem to be differing opinions in that cohort.

Also if we are looking at this chain, the advice of the medical professionals should weigh far more than that of other ministers outside of the health ministry. I am referring particularly in relation to the decision not to cancel Paddys day festivities.

Indestructable · 08-03-2020 03:44PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

And weddings. Can you make up a scenario for a cancelled wedding.

I'm due to get married April 3rd. Would love a scenario :P Can't see it happening tbh

lostatsea · 08-03-2020 03:44PM

I have been looking at the John Hopkin’s University website which tracks the spread of the Covid-19 virus (Operations Dashboard for ArcGIS). It is a fantastic resource and it appears to be the trusted source of information for media outlets worldwide.

The epicentre of this Covid-19 outbreak is Wuhan (pop. 11 million), the capital of Hebei province (pop. 60 million) in China. Its numbers as of yesterday are as follows:
Confirmed cases: 67,707; Deaths: 2,986; Recovered cases: 45,153; Active cases: 19,568

The most important number, in terms of controlling this virus, is the number of Active cases. In China, this number has been falling for a number of weeks. The Active cases number is calculated by subtracting the Recovered cases and Deaths from Confirmed Cases. It was reported yesterday there were no new cases of the virus in Hubei province outside Wuhan. In many provinces around China, the number of Active cases is now in very low numbers (0--50) having had confirmed cases in the hundreds.

Media outlets are concentrating on the number of Confirmed cases whereas the number of Active cases is a better indicator of our ability to control this virus. My most recent visit to the website shows the following numbers worldwide:

Confirmed cases: 107,352; Deaths: 3,646; Recovered: 60,558; Active cases: 43,148
So worldwide, the number of Active cases is less than 50,000 and this number is falling every day.

The number of Active cases is still growing in Europe. The number of Recovered cases at the moment is negligible in many European countries due to the recent outbreak of the virus to these parts. On average, it takes about two weeks for a person to recover from the virus. Ireland, for example, has 19 Confirmed cases which also equals the number of Active cases as we have had no deaths or recoveries. Recoveries should start kicking in at the end of next week. If we manage to keep our numbers of Confirmed cases to less than 100 we may well come out of this with a negligible number of Active cases by mid-April.

I was surprised that the St. Patrick’s Day parade was not cancelled. The festival coincides with a time when we may be seeing Active cases falling. Why would we risk bringing hundreds of thousands of people into our country just when we may be seeing some progress in controlling the virus?

I was also surprised by the reaction of the UK government to this crisis. Nicola Sturgeon, who attended the Cobra meetings, talked about 80% of the population becoming infected with a possible 100,000 deaths. Such speculation seemed to be unnecessary scaremongering and not based on the evidence that was available thus far on how the virus was spreading.

Obviously, the most worrying aspect of the spread of the virus in Europe is what is happening in Northern Italy. The full story as to why it spread rapidly in this region will be written in the future. The fact that the Italian Government is imposing Chinese style restrictions on movement is excellent news for the rest of us. Going by the Chinese experience, similar results in reducing the number of Active cases should be successful.

Anyway, that is my analysis based on the numbers I’m seeing. I may prove to be hopelessly wrong.

Blueshoe · 08-03-2020 03:44PM

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

It's not but the whole point of having a body like the HSE is that it provides non-party political advice and continuity no matter who the minister is.

The minister will thus always take their advice from such and when the minister is not a medical professional and the HSE is stocked with them - then it's the right thing to do.

As I said - this should be easy enough to understand/accept but you seem to want to play some game of petty point scoring as you think it will further the agenda of whatever party you support - but the truth is you dont seem to be able to comprehend how or what is going on.

Keep shouting at that cloud though

So Harris is in charge. Hse make suggestions and he decides which way to go. He has the final call since he is in charge.

Ok thanks for clearing that up. Muted

dxhound2005 · 08-03-2020 03:45PM

Indestructable wrote: »

I'm due to get married April 3rd. Would love a scenario :P Can't see it happening tbh

How many people does it take?

Jucifer · 08-03-2020 03:45PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

It's been posted time and time again that the turnaround is not 48hours.

Apologies I have been following the 4 threads on this as much as possible but things moving so fast I haven’t seen any further info on this. I am personally aware of a case where we were informed Wednesday eve that testing had taken place and we were informed of the results Friday evening and told that volumes had led to delays. I was working off this information and a news article outlining similar information

sdanseo · 08-03-2020 03:45PM

When the post-mortem (apologies for the morbid pun) is done on the response to this crisis, there will be a clear winner. China, despite causing the whole thing, will be lauded as having cracked down hard and prevented spread.

Europe, Ireland included, will be villified as caught on the hop, too slow to respond, and not taking the threat seriously. Compounded by continuing to do so once they realised it was too late for containment.

They could admit they were wrong tomorrow and it won't save them. The ECDC and WHO guidelines dictate most EU countries response here and they are going to cause untold devastation even if deaths are only 0.1%.
China fúcked up but their response was magnificent. The west stuck its head in the sand.

wheresthebeef · 08-03-2020 03:45PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Biochemistry labs would be considered part of the hospital infrastructure.

Hospital Biochem labs cannot test for Coronavirus. Only the NVRL in UCD has the ability to do these tests.

niallo27 · 08-03-2020 03:45PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

SARS had a global number of cases of 8,000. There's nearly as many as that in northern Italy alone. 2 weeks ago Italy had a handful of cases in Lombardy. This is substantially worse than SARS every got.

Oh I agree but people were saying there would be over 300k affected here alone. We were also told we would be posting 15% mortgage rates here by now.

Poor_old_gill · 08-03-2020 03:46PM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

The medical professional answers to the minister. Obviously, the minister should be able to make the best judgement call(s) I would hope based on the advice of more than one medical professionals as there does seem to be differing opinions in that cohort.

Also if we are looking at this chain, the advice of the medical professionals should weigh far more than that of other ministers outside of the health ministry.

In this instance- the minister is not a medical professional so is taking advice from the team of medical professionals in the HSE.

The HSE is responsible for the implementation of policy and in a crisis situation their opinion should supersede that of the minster, which seems to be happening

Pacing Mule · 08-03-2020 03:48PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've seen no evidence of them not releasing confirmed cases. Albeit, we have had none in my hospital. I have heard multiple rumours of people been infected which have turned out to be false. Also, I find it bizarre that a HCP would advise somebody not to go to a hospital because of a rumour.

As an example, if somebody is suffering from sepsis, time is critical. By going to a hospital a further amount of time away, you are increasing the risk of dying. Can't remember off the top of my head but a delay in diagnosis of sepsis iof four hours ncreases risk of dying 3-4 fold.

If I found out one of my staff was giving out such dangerous advice, they would be getting an official warning because what they are saying is impacting patient safety.

Absolutely 100% agree with your thoughts there. Hence why I'd not be posting specific information / source here as person involved would be in trouble and I can see why. In the particular case though it was a warning for a specific individual case with underlying health conditions to avoid a particular hospital not a general warning if that makes sense.

Poor_old_gill · 08-03-2020 03:48PM

Blueshoe wrote: »

So Harris is in charge. Hse make suggestions and he decides which way to go. He has the final call since he is in charge.

Ok thanks for clearing that up. Muted

Your inability to understand a complex situation is nicely backed up by your immaturity.

dan786 · 08-03-2020 03:49PM

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1236661122360643584?s=20

WhiteMemento9 · 08-03-2020 03:49PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Biochemistry labs would be considered part of the hospital infrastructure.

It isn't the Biochemistry labs in hospitals that are doing the testing. Some of them may be trained and operating now but up until very recently, that isn't the case.

Staff at some Irish hospitals will be be trained to provide testing facilities regionally, it is expected. The National Virus Reference Laboratory in University College Dublin currently processes all tests. Up to last week, almost 400 people had been tested, but this number is expected to have risen sharply when new figures are published early next week.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-testing-to-rise-sharply-in-ireland-as-treatment-streamlined-1.4195612

Coronavirus Part V - 34 cases in ROI, 16 in NI (as of 10 March) *Read warnings in OP*

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Coronavirus Part V - 34 cases in ROI, 16 in NI (as of 10 March) Read warnings in OP