US Presidential Election 2020

Itssoeasy · 05-03-2020 12:01AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

I would think as an outsider that lying about wars and bombings is far more serious than the many largely trivial lies of Trump. The inauguration story was just for a laugh for the domestic audience. I'd be more worried about US foreign policy.

Obama himself wasn't immune from lying. He just couched it in pretty language and with a boring speech.

Trivial lies ? Ah this is a piss take surely. Was adding a misleading track of a hurricane trivial so ? Yeah a laugh that was brought up by his press secretary at the time and trump for over a year after.

05-03-2020 12:31AM

briany wrote: »

No, this is something a bit different. We're living in a time where things that are demonstrably true and verifiable (i.e. with video evidence) are still being questioned or, at times, poo-pooed altogether. A time where the public is no longer counting on established sources of information to have a common point of understanding but instead are too often going into their own little information fiefdoms causing what Barack Obama described as a 'balkanisation' of thought. A time where the POTUS is disputing the turnout at his inauguration despite clear evidence against his assertions, and his campaign manager mentioned some alternative facts. A time where the general public is lapping up conspiracy theories and through this getting entertainment hopelessly confused with information. In short, a time where what's true is very much up for grabs.

But even if everything is demonstrably and verifiably, using such techniques as video evidence, it all depends on who is supplying the video evidence as to whether we get the truth or not.

Take the Covington KY school situation for example.

Based on a subset of the video evidence we the public believed one thing to be the truth.

But when a larger subset of video evidence became available it was clear that what we had previously thought to be the truth was no longer the case.

markodaly · 05-03-2020 01:50AM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But even if everything is demonstrably and verifiably, using such techniques as video evidence, it all depends on who is supplying the video evidence as to whether we get the truth or not.

Take the Covington KY school situation for example.

Based on a subset of the video evidence we the public believed one thing to be the truth.

But when a larger subset of video evidence became available it was clear that what we had previously thought to be the truth was no longer the case.

Ah the Covington case.
It appears the kid in question stands to make a lot of money from the mass media outlets.

On Biden, his latest gaffes make George W Bush appear like a Rhodes Scholar.
I cannot actually believe that the Democrats are going for him.

everlast75 · 05-03-2020 07:39AM

Incredible that all those posters making derogatory remarks and voicing concern about Biden's mental capacity have been weirdly quiet on Trump's four years of blatant cognitive decline.

It's the same posters who complain about Hunter Biden but have said nothing about Ivanka and Don Junior directly profiting of their dad's position for the last four years.

It's almost as if these comments are completely disingenuous...

x43r0 · 05-03-2020 09:01AM

everlast75 wrote: »

Incredible that all those posters making derogatory remarks and voicing concern about Biden's mental capacity have been weirdly quiet on Trump's four years of blatant cognitive decline.

It's the same posters who complain about Hunter Biden but have said nothing about Ivanka and Don Junior directly profiting of their dad's position for the last four years.

It's almost as if these comments are completely disingenuous...

I would have said it's more the acknowledgment that Biden & Trump are not judged by the same standards. All of the things you mention about Trump have already been proven to not matter one iota to the conservatives that voted him in. Trump could toss a bag of kittens into a river and still retain most of his base

Any Dem candidate needs to be as close to bulletproof as possible going into the **** slinging matches we'll see in the lead up to the general in order to pry away any potential swing voters

Not trying to "one-up" Sanders in any way here just trying to say that Trump's actions a largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things now

everlast75 · 05-03-2020 09:25AM

x43r0 wrote: »

I would have said it's more the acknowledgment that Biden & Trump are not judged by the same standards. All of the things you mention about Trump have already been proven to not matter one iota to the conservatives that voted him in. Trump could toss a bag of kittens into a river and still retain most of his base

Any Dem candidate needs to be as close to bulletproof as possible going into the **** slinging matches we'll see in the lead up to the general in order to pry away any potential swing voters

Not trying to "one-up" Sanders in any way here just trying to say that Trump's actions a largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things now

I see your point, but you're not going to get a near bulletproof candidate.

If its Biden, he's establishment/prone to gaffs
Bernie - a socialist.
Pete - inexperienced
Warren - used to be a Republican

Etc etc.

But we have to focus upon who the Dems are trying to win over. They have their "base", so what they are trying do is

A) win over the independents.

win over any wavering Reps.

Without losing any "Left Dems".

So, the argument is whether Bernie is more likely to do that, or is Biden.

That's the risk, but on balance I think it's Biden.

x43r0 · 05-03-2020 09:44AM

everlast75 wrote: »

But we have to focus upon who the Dems are trying to win over. They have their "base", so what they are trying do is

A) win over the independents.
win over any wavering Reps.

Without losing any "Left Dems".

So, the argument is whether Bernie is more likely to do that, or is Biden.

That's the risk, but on balance I think it's Biden.

I agree with most of this but the counter point is in a Biden/Sanders comparison, Joe is far and away the weaker orator and there's a hell of a lot of talking/debating to be done between now and the general so it doesn't inspire huge confidence in terms of winning anyone over on the mic

I agree though, there's obvious risks to both guys

everlast75 · 05-03-2020 09:52AM

x43r0 wrote: »

I agree with most of this but the counter point is in a Biden/Sanders comparison, Joe is far and away the weaker orator and there's a hell of a lot of talking/debating to be done between now and the general so it doesn't inspire huge confidence in terms of winning anyone over on the mic

I agree though, there's obvious risks to both guys

Joe might be a weaker orator, but counter that with Obama batting for him on the stump, versus the likelihood that middle of the road voters would vote for Bernie.

Whether Trump agrees to a debate or not is another thing. The man is a coward so if he can get out of it he will.

Trump et al certainly fear Biden more than they do Bernie. Whether that's a mistake on their part or not, it's their political calculation.

hotmail.com · 05-03-2020 10:58AM

x43r0 wrote: »

I would have said it's more the acknowledgment that Biden & Trump are not judged by the same standards. All of the things you mention about Trump have already been proven to not matter one iota to the conservatives that voted him in. Trump could toss a bag of kittens into a river and still retain most of his base

If anything, it seems that Democrat supporters here (even though they don't vote in America) are hyper sensitive to any criticism of their candidates, past presidents etc.

Even pointing out the elephant in the room - Biden being senile has ignited fierce responses on here.

everlast75 · 05-03-2020 11:04AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

If anything, it seems that Democrat supporters here (even though they don't vote in America) are hyper sensitive to any criticism of their candidates, past presidents etc.

Even pointing out the elephant in the room - Biden being senile has ignited fierce responses on here.

Not hyper sesative at all. Just responsive to hypocrisy and false equivalency.

hotmail.com · 05-03-2020 11:13AM

everlast75 wrote: »

Not hyper sesative at all. Just responsive to hypocrisy and false equivalency.

But this doesn't apply to observers that don't vote in the elections.

droidus · 05-03-2020 11:52AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

If anything, it seems that Democrat supporters here (even though they don't vote in America) are hyper sensitive to any criticism of their candidates, past presidents etc.

Even pointing out the elephant in the room - Biden being senile has ignited fierce responses on here.

Biden is clearly in cognitive decline. Hillary was a terrible candidate, but I don't think you could say that she wasnt in full possession of her faculties. It would be irresponsible to ask Joe to babysit a 6 year old, putting him onto a debate stage with a monster like Trump would just be cruel, he'll be ripped to shreds. Just look at him FFS

And to be clear, Its also obvious that Trump has serious mental difficulties, and I want him destroyed and locked up for the rest of his life, but sending a frail and confused old man against him is insane.

hotmail.com · 05-03-2020 12:08PM

droidus wrote: »

Biden is clearly in cognitive decline. Hillary was a terrible candidate, but I don't think you could say that she wasnt in full possession of her faculties. It would be irresponsible to ask Joe to babysit a 6 year old, putting him onto a debate stage with a monster like Trump would just be cruel, he'll be ripped to shreds. Just look at him FFS

And to be clear, Its also obvious that Trump has serious mental difficulties, and I want him destroyed and locked up for the rest of his life, but sending a frail and confused old man against him is insane.

Well said.

It will be an embarrassing affair, the whole campaign if these are the two candidates.

I predict an even lower turnout than normal if these are the choices for Americans.

Red for Danger · 05-03-2020 01:22PM

everlast75 wrote: »

Incredible that all those posters making derogatory remarks and voicing concern about Biden's mental capacity have been weirdly quiet on Trump's four years of blatant cognitive decline.

Trump and Bloomberg have been going at it over the past few weeks.
Who won that battle? If thats cognitive decline, where was he four years ago?
Who else could do what trump did to bloomberg, bidan, don jr, hannity, obama?
Having the ability to ridicule powerful people it seems, is a rare skill. It has nothing to do with abality to run a country but right now has a lot to do with getting elected.
Trump will prove beyond doubt that he could make a total fool of Bidan then he'll decide to act or not depending on which way the wind is blowing.

BonnieSituation · 05-03-2020 01:40PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

A lot of the comments on Biden's mental state is coming from Democrats in America.

American Democrats are concerned about this.

You pay an awful lot of attention to American politics for someone who doesn't care about American politics.

everlast75 · 05-03-2020 01:58PM

Red for Danger wrote: »

Trump and Bloomberg have been going at it over the past few weeks.
Who won that battle? If thats cognitive decline, where was he four years ago?
Who else could do what trump did to bloomberg, bidan, don jr, hannity, obama?
Having the ability to ridicule powerful people it seems, is a rare skill. It has nothing to do with abality to run a country but right now has a lot to do with getting elected.
Trump will prove beyond doubt that he could make a total fool of Bidan then he'll decide to act or not depending on which way the wind is blowing.

So, according to you, those who insult the other the most "wins" the debate? Says a lot about your perspective.

Secondly, it is very easy to do something like that. It doesn't take a genius.

Thirdly, this is Trump's mental acumen at play..

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1235411751950221312?s=20

05-03-2020 03:00PM

everlast75 wrote: »

Incredible that all those posters making derogatory remarks and voicing concern about Biden's mental capacity have been weirdly quiet on Trump's four years of blatant cognitive decline.

It's the same posters who complain about Hunter Biden but have said nothing about Ivanka and Don Junior directly profiting of their dad's position for the last four years.

It's almost as if these comments are completely disingenuous...

I think people posting about Biden's mental state in some sort of frustration about Bernie losing ground, this has nothing to do with Trump right now, it's coming from people here who want to see Bernie secure the nomination.

Rjd2 · 05-03-2020 03:36PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think people posting about Biden's mental state in some sort of frustration about Bernie losing ground, this has nothing to do with Trump right now, it's coming from people here who want to see Bernie secure the nomination.

Their is plenty of material there to suggest he is in serious mental decline. However its a tricky thing for other Dem candidates to discuss as they are not exactly young either. I think the Dems have been hands off with him during the campaign especially Bernie and Warren ,,but heh that's why the left loses quite a lot.

Before someone says TRUMP~!!, yeah he has declined also,,if either of them win expect the VP and both their team to do the heavy lifting. Heck I wouldn't be shocked if neither of them served the full 4 year term.

Biden if he wins won't run in 2024 no matter what he says.

everlast75 · 05-03-2020 04:01PM

Warren is out.

Pity she didn't get further.

This tweet sums it up for her now.

https://twitter.com/CMSeeberger/status/1235289358732857345?s=19

vetinari · 05-03-2020 04:10PM

I'd say Warren's valid options are to not endorse or endorse Sanders.
Endorsing Biden would (rightly imo) reflect badly on her given that she was trying to win as a progressive candidate.

AbusesToilets · 05-03-2020 04:13PM

Shame, I still think she was the best candidate by a mile. If the Democratic bigwigs had a lick of sense they would've forced Biden to **** off and backed her.

Rjd2 · 05-03-2020 04:13PM

warren's base were mainly affluent white educated suburban people and she never really was able to bring in other groups especially when you look at how badly she performed in her home state with various demographics.

Her fans will blame the media and sexism which is rather naive as most of traditional media which is largely white, educated loved her and propped her up.

Interesting to see if her going to bat for Bernie will matter now, at least she has some pull with suburban whites a demo Bernie is struggling with atm.

pixelburp · 05-03-2020 04:15PM

Kinda feel sorry for Warren; the stats did initially show a helluva surge, past what had been a lagging Sanders, to the point it was fair to wonder if it might be her V Biden. She definitely made a few miscalculations though, and perhaps trying to split the difference between the progressives and centrists in the party meant she lost support from all sides. The attempt at a smear against Sanders also backfired on her spectacularly. And as said in that Tweet, who she supports may yet erode the goodwill towards her.

Obviously stuff like her native American "heritage" was a big black mark, but overall has often seemed like the kind of political that does the maths and tries to put figures on the table. A rare enough quality from the flimflam merchants that normally populate this stage.

05-03-2020 04:16PM

Well that's life. When every issue is binary then half the people are gonna hate ya no matter what ya do.

Dytalus · 05-03-2020 04:19PM

pixelburp wrote: »

Kinda feel sorry for Warren; the stats did initially show a helluva surge, past what had been a lagging Sanders, to the point it was fair to wonder if it might be her V Biden. She definitely made a few miscalculations though, and perhaps trying to split the difference between the progressives and centrists in the party meant she lost support from all sides. The attempt at a smear against Sanders also backfired on her spectacularly. And as said in that Tweet, who she supports may yet erode the goodwill towards her.

Obviously stuff like her native American "heritage" was a big black mark, but overall has often seemed like the kind of political that does the maths and tries to put figures on the table. A rare enough quality from the flimflam merchants that normally populate this stage.

Yeah, I'd always been hoping Warren would come out on top (or near it). Definitely she made a few mistakes running her campaign, but she's an extremely intelligent politician and has some impressive achievements under her belt. She didn't make it this time, but I'd wager her political career is far from over.

With that in mind, she's in a pickle for endorsing anyone. Endorse Sanders (who she seems to agree with policy wise) and the DNC won't take kindly to it, potentially stalling her career. Endorsing Biden could alienate her existing support given her status as a progressive and Biden's battle cry is pretty close "change nothing".

Hande hoche! · 05-03-2020 04:22PM

On the one hand she was clearly smart candidate and good debater. She certainly put considerable effort into drafting policy and was far meatier on the details of her plans versus others running. On the other hand personality still counts. Quite a few comparisons to the unlikable faculty members one encounters didn't seem too far fetched.

pixelburp · 05-03-2020 04:25PM

Dytalus wrote: »

Yeah, I'd always been hoping Warren would come out on top (or near it). Definitely she made a few mistakes running her campaign, but she's an extremely intelligent politician and has some impressive achievements under her belt. She didn't make it this time, but I'd wager her political career is far from over.

With that in mind, she's in a pickle for endorsing anyone. Endorse Sanders (who she seems to agree with policy wise) and the DNC won't take kindly to it, potentially stalling her career. Endorsing Biden could alienate her existing support given her status as a progressive and Biden's battle cry is pretty close "change nothing".

I dunno, she's 70 now, and while she wears it well, she could be 78 before she gets another chance at the White House. 74 at a minimum if Trump gets a second term. I'm sure she'll continue to work as a senator or State level, but you'd imagine that's that for any Presidential aspirations.

Englo · 05-03-2020 04:25PM

vetinari wrote: »

I'd say Warren's valid options are to not endorse or endorse Sanders.
Endorsing Biden would (rightly imo) reflect badly on her given that she was trying to win as a progressive candidate.

Exactly this, if Buttigieg or Klobuchar endorsed Sanders they wouldn't have got much beyond initial praise for them and would be cast aside by the corporate wing somewhat. If Warren endorsed Biden you would see similar most likely, just with the sides reversed. It would be a bad move both in terms of career prospects, and in terms of long term agenda.

It was also good gp see sanders give out to his supporters for hostility towards her, I much prefer Sanders but Biden will likely win it, and a unified front is important. Trump is aware too, hence why Russia are so eager to sow further discord and why sanders has already wanted them to stay away from US elections and his campaign.

Hande hoche! · 05-03-2020 04:29PM

pixelburp wrote: »

I dunno, she's 70 now, and while she wears it well, she could be 78 before she gets another chance at the White House. 74 at a minimum if Trump gets a second term. I'm sure she'll continue to work as a senator or State level, but you'd imagine that's that for any Presidential aspirations.

Fair point. Between Trump, Blomberg and Biden she can seem like a whippersnapper at times.

reg114 · 05-03-2020 04:48PM

everlast75 wrote: »

Warren is out.

Pity she didn't get further.

This tweet sums it up for her now.

https://twitter.com/CMSeeberger/status/1235289358732857345?s=19

Real shame, but Warren is too much of an intellectual to appeal to the great American unwashed, she' also too female... America simply is not ready for a woman president.

The democratic party need to get their act together and fast. They must roll in behind a single candidate asap. The unfortunate reality is that the democratic party seems even more divided than America itself. Their sole purpose should be to defeat Trump and restore a semblance of sanity to the Whitehouse. The more they squabble within their ranks the more they are handing the power to Trump. This comes down to simplicity of message akin to the Tory Party's pre-election Brexit slogan .. 'Lets get Brexit done'. It was pithy and simple to process. Democrats need a candidate and they need a unified message.

I believe we are looking at a two horse race between Biden and Sanders and I feel Biden will win. Its shocking that after the last 4 years a 78 and a 77 year old is all the Democratic party could come up with as viable challengers to the throne. Then again look at Pelosi , she 79 herself. Where are the younger candidates, and Im not talking about Buttigeig who I feel was chancing his arm , saying all the right things with little or no track record and little life experience.Surely the Democrats have within their ranks female and male politicians in the 40s , 50s and 60s who have amassed a body of work as public servants and have the ambition to move up the ladder?

As far as Biden is concerned I would have serious reservations about his smarts. I just dont think he's sharp enough to tackle Trump especially in head to head debates. Biden is also prone to putting his foot in his mouth. This is a problem when you are trying to present yourself as the clear thinking sane alternative to Trump.

Sanders main problem is his tendency to rant. I admire his passion but given his advancing years and slightly unkempt appearance , he reminds me sometimes of Grandpa Simpson. Its a simplistic image I know but aesthetics / visuals will affect this race. Sanders is also very much an outsider as far as the establishment are concerned and this is what scares people within the traditional party lines. To be honest Sanders is exactly the left field kind of president America needs in a heartbeat but its not going to happen.

So unless Biden can sell a message to the masses and really up his game, you are looking at 4 more years of the imbecile. Nobody can afford that.

US Presidential Election 2020

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