US Presidential Election 2020

Rjd2

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Two old men with questionable mental health, stumbling through gaffe after after.

"There goes Senile Joe"
" Cut that malarky out"

2 hours of this. :P

Englo

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Two old men with questionable mental health, stumbling through gaffe after after.

And even before the MH issues kicked in, one had a penchant for absurd hyperbole while the other had a penchant for shovelling his foot in his mouth in quite a unique fashion.

This remains one of my favourite political gaffes of all time (Chuck Graham is wheelchair bound) :

hotmail.com

namloc1980 wrote: »

The Trump and Biden debates are going to be something else.

A national embarrassment for America when it happens.

sid waddell

Englo wrote: »

And even before the MH issues kicked in, one had a penchant for absurd hyperbole while the other had a penchant for shovelling his foot in his mouth in quite a unique fashion.

This remains one of my favourite political gaffes of all time (Chuck Graham is wheelchair bound) :

That was pretty funny to be fair and what's more he was able to get with it too in a sort of Bobby Robson dotty grandad fashion.

Water John

I think the decision Warren is making, is not will she leave but who might she endorse, if she comes out for anyone.

Englo

sid waddell wrote: »

That was pretty funny to be fair and what's more he was able to get with it too in a sort of Bobby Robson dotty grandad fashion.

Somewhat, but the "let's all stand up for chuck" bit, while absolutely being a heart in the right place moment, just couldn't have punctuated the initial gaffe any worse. It is funny and I'm quite sure the guy in question didn't take offense, though I todays context we would have the usual suspects pushing some agenda on it.

Englo

hotmail.com wrote: »

A national embarrassment for America when it happens.

Add it to the pile.

The Phantom Jipper

Water John wrote: »

I think the decision Warren is making, is not will she leave but who might she endorse, if she comes out for anyone.

She's in a tricky spot alright. Endorsing Bernie makes sense and would be on brand with fighting the good fight etc but given that Bernie looks done, it runs the risk of needlessly prolonging the process and giving Bernie supporters reason to feel aggrieved when he falls short. It's a tough call.

sid waddell

Englo wrote: »

Somewhat, but the "let's all stand up for chuck" bit, while absolutely being a heart in the right place moment, just couldn't have punctuated the initial gaffe any worse. It is funny and I'm quite sure the guy in question didn't take offense, though I todays context we would have the usual suspects pushing some agenda on it.

90% of something that's said is who's saying it, as they say. That's one thing Biden has to his advantage, the ability to make gaffes and for them to somehow seem endearing rather than excruciating.

Like if, say, Hillary Clinton had made the exact same gaffe, it would have been excruciating, but it wasn't Hillary Clinton.

Gbear

sid waddell wrote: »

It's difficult, pretty much impossible, to eviscerate a troll leading a cult because a troll leading a cult has no shame and can't be shamed. The troll exists in a different world, a reality-free world. They glory in their scumminess.

Bloomberg may be worth a hell of a lot more money than Trump, but he isn't a troll, he exists in a reality-based world, which is why he decided to apologise for stop and frisk. When Warren eviscerated Bloomberg, you could sense Bloomberg's embarrassment inside. It was Bloomberg's clear embarrassment that made the moment and made the attack work. If an audience cheers on such an evisceration, the effect is magnified.

It takes two to tango - the candidate and the voters.

Democratic voters and liberals more generally are less religious, less tribal, more likely to vote based on policies and change their minds about facts.

Elections are a self-selective process. Trump won the Republican nomination because truth and facts aren't relevant to it, but they are far more so in a Democratic nomination.

Bloomberg did not, I think, apologise or take a backwards step because he felt actual remorse. He did it because he had to. There's also far less tendency for candidates to totally flip 180 degrees on a position and just pretend like you never had your original position for a liberal. In both cases, if you tried that you wouldn't get very far. But it's not even remotely an issue for conservatism. It has absolutely no bearing on their position.

Just think about how people in Britain still moan about the Lib Dems breaking promises under the coalition with the Tories and compare that to how the Tories can apparently do whatever the **** they want.

The only effect I can see of Trump doing debates is that he'll humiliate himself and drive away low information floating voters who don't really know much about politics and weren't really aware of what he's like. There's no possible benefit in terms of his base. They're already as whipped up as they're likely to get.

And I don't think it'll be a Trump decision. I'm sure he thinks he'll do great. I'd imagine that whoever is in charge of his campaign will be the one pushing him to avoid them.

vetinari wrote: »

My worry is that it will turn off a lot of Bernie's core vote and that they don't turn up in November.

The issue is that they're already not turning up. They never do.

I had heard a few people, I think maybe on the 538 podcast, talking about how when they dug into the numbers for Sanders, there were assumptions being made about turnout in his key demographics that were a bit fanciful. There's always going to be a difference between you going out and polling people vs them going out and voting.

Obviously it's not as simple as Sanders being all young voters, and Biden being everyone else - they're still pretty close, but the edge that Sanders seemed to have is now looking like it was made of, errr, britle stuff, all along.

hotmail.com

sid waddell wrote: »

90% of something that's said is who's saying it, as they say. That's one thing Biden has to his advantage, the ability to make gaffes and for them to somehow seem endearing rather than excruciating.

Like if, say, Hillary Clinton had made the exact same gaffe, it would have been excruciating, but it wasn't Hillary Clinton.

It seems that a lot of people are questioning if Biden has dementia. There is has gone passed gaffes at this stage.

BonnieSituation

hotmail.com wrote: »

It seems that a lot of people are questioning if Biden has dementia. There is has gone passed gaffes at this stage.

A lot of people say Trump has dementia.A lot of people are saying that, I don't know...

hotmail.com

BonnieSituation wrote: »

A lot of people say Trump has dementia.A lot of people are saying that, I don't know...

All the more reason not to pick someone with even worse symptoms of dementia surely.

one world order

The debates will be a car wreckage for Biden. Trump is clued in and gets people, while Biden struggles to put sentences together. We all remember Hillary falling down and needing people to help her up steps or into her car, those videos of Biden look just as bad.

Water John

Anyone who is familiar with dementia in the family , will quickly tell you the Biden isn't showing signs of that.
Strange that GOP supporters found George W Bush's gaffes endearing but Biden's tendency isn't looked on in a similar fashion.

hotmail.com

Water John wrote: »

Anyone who is familiar with dementia in the family , will quickly tell you the Biden isn't showing signs of that.
Strange that GOP supporters found George W Bush's gaffes endearing but Biden's tendency isn't looked on in a similar fashion.

Whether he has or has not, this is what people are saying.

It's a massive problem.

The Phantom Jipper

hotmail.com wrote: »

All the more reason not to pick someone with even worse symptoms of dementia surely.

"Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart—you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s true!—but when you're a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number—that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged—but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?), but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners—now it used to be three, now it’s four—but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us."

briany

one world order wrote: »

The debates will be a car wreckage for Biden. Trump is clued in and gets people

It's true that Trump is no moron. When you look at his old interviews from the 80s and 90s, he is way, way more articulate and calm. Almost like a different person entirely. Whether his current personality is just a carefully constructed facade to play the rubes and rise to power is debatable, but his political success hasn't been a solo effort. Bringing in Steve Bannon for his 2016 run was crucial.

Anyway, you can't really debate Trump. He's not coming with prepared facts and figures. He's coming with bluster and ignorance. It's not like you're going to expose Trump in a debate as he's figuratively walking into it buck naked, doing a war whoop. In the post-truth era, facts don't matter like they used to. They still do to many people, but there are many others who've just decided to go down Facebook & Twitter rabbit-holes and end up as anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers and, yes, Trump supporters.

peddlelies

Water John wrote: »

Anyone who is familiar with dementia in the family , will quickly tell you the Biden isn't showing signs of that.
Strange that GOP supporters found George W Bush's gaffes endearing but Biden's tendency isn't looked on in a similar fashion.

Whatever it is, it's not good. The second clip

https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1234573252221120513

hotmail.com

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

"Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart—you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s true!—but when you're a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number—that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged—but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?), but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners—now it used to be three, now it’s four—but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us."

Stuff likes this makes me laugh. He's crazy.

But the Democrats present themselves as serious professional and noble and all the that rubbish. And yet they want Americans to vote for an elderly man with genuine memory problems. This is the sort of stuff you'd expect to see from the Republican party.

It must be a depressing time for Democrat supporters in America.

hotmail.com

briany wrote: »

It's true that Trump is no moron. When you look at his old interviews from the 80s and 90s, he is way, way more articulate and calm. Almost like a different person entirely. Whether his current personality is just a carefully constructed facade to play the rubes and rise to power is debatable, but his political success hasn't been a solo effort. Bringing in Steve Bannon for his 2016 run was crucial.

Anyway, you can't really debate Trump. He's not coming with prepared facts and figures. He's coming with bluster and ignorance. It's not like you're going to expose Trump in a debate as he's figuratively walking into it buck naked, doing a war whoop. In the post-truth era, facts don't matter like they used to. They still do to many people, but there are many others who've just decided to go down Facebook & Twitter rabbit-holes and end up as anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers and, yes, Trump supporters.

The post truth era is a total myth. American governments have been lying about wars and bombing for generations. And yet, now people seem to think we're in a post truth era. We've always been living in a non truth era.

Itssoeasy

hotmail.com wrote: »

Whether he has or has not, this is what people are saying.

It's a massive problem.

People as a rule say loads of ****e. Just because people are saying it doesn't make it true. He is not polished at speaking at times but that's not an indication to me he's diminished mentally.

briany

hotmail.com wrote: »

The post truth era is a total myth. American governments have been lying about wars and bombing for generations. And yet, now people seem to think we're in a post truth era. We've always been living in a non truth era.

No, this is something a bit different. We're living in a time where things that are demonstrably true and verifiable (i.e. with video evidence) are still being questioned or, at times, poo-pooed altogether. A time where the public is no longer counting on established sources of information to have a common point of understanding but instead are too often going into their own little information fiefdoms causing what Barack Obama described as a 'balkanisation' of thought. A time where the POTUS is disputing the turnout at his inauguration despite clear evidence against his assertions, and his campaign manager mentioned some alternative facts. A time where the general public is lapping up conspiracy theories and through this getting entertainment hopelessly confused with information. In short, a time where what's true is very much up for grabs.

hotmail.com

hotmail.com wrote: »

All the more reason not to pick someone with even worse symptoms of dementia surely.

This literally stinks of the effort to push the claim Clinton has Multiple Sclerosis or that she was dying... Weirdly alive and well still! Meanwhile Trump's mental competence is genuinely up for debate due to his day to day decisions.

hotmail.com

briany wrote: »

No, this is something a bit different. We're living in a time where things that are demonstrably true and verifiable (i.e. with video evidence) are still being questioned or, at times, poo-pooed altogether. A time where the public is no longer counting on established sources of information to have a common point of understanding but instead are too often going into their own little information fiefdoms causing what Barack Obama described as a 'balkanisation' of thought. A time where the POTUS is disputing the turnout at his inauguration despite clear evidence against his assertions, and his campaign manager mentioned some alternative facts. A time where the general public is lapping up conspiracy theories and through this getting entertainment hopelessly confused with information. In short, a time where what's true is very much up for grabs.

I would think as an outsider that lying about wars and bombings is far more serious than the many largely trivial lies of Trump. The inauguration story was just for a laugh for the domestic audience. I'd be more worried about US foreign policy.

Obama himself wasn't immune from lying. He just couched it in pretty language and with a boring speech.

hotmail.com

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This literally stinks of the effort to push the claim Clinton has Multiple Sclerosis or that she was dying... Weirdly alive and well still! Meanwhile Trump's mental competence is genuinely up for debate due to his day to day decisions.

A lot of the comments on Biden's mental state is coming from Democrats in America.

American Democrats are concerned about this.

Foxtrol

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

I've watched many of the debates in full, rather than watching the highlights. The highlights can make for essential viewing but she's a consistently good debater outside of those aswell. Trump may have some qualities but debating isn't one of them. It's a moot point at this stage but it goes without saying that a Harvard law professor would have little trouble taking Trump apart over the course of a 2 hour debate.

Warren is a good debater but she got terrible advice (or ignored good advice). I'm guessing she went time and again at Bloomberg as an example of what she could do to Trump, when she would have been much better off splitting her attacks to be also target Bernie, who was frontrunner at the time. It would have annoyed the rabid heart of his base but would have positioned her as an alternative to him.

Given her lack of support from people of colour I don't think it would have saved her chances it could have helped her more

sid waddell

hotmail.com wrote: »

The post truth era is a total myth. American governments have been lying about wars and bombing for generations. And yet, now people seem to think we're in a post truth era. We've always been living in a non truth era.

The difference is previous governments didn't want you to know when they were lying.

The Trump regime does - and when they are lying is literally all the time.

Russia playbook 101.

hotmail.com

sid waddell wrote: »

The difference is previous governments didn't want you to know when they were lying.

The Trump regime does - and when they are lying is literally all the time.

Russia playbook 101.

So it's all lying?

America doesn't need any tips from Russia about lying.

hotmail.com

sid waddell wrote: »

The difference is previous governments didn't want you to know when they were lying.

The Trump regime does - and when they are lying is literally all the time.

Russia playbook 101.

Duplicate.