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Coronavirus Part III - 9 cases across the Island - 503 errors abound!! *read OP*

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Comments

  • #7622
    Downlinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    MadYaker wrote: »
    What is this truth that the HSE don’t want us to know and how do you know all this?

    8% of all cases in Italy required intensive care for weeks and there is a total of only 259 ICU beds in Ireland, most of which are currently occupied. If we have an outbreak of 1000 or more simultaneously lives will be lost due to lack of capacity.


  • #7623
    ThePopehimself
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 336 ✭✭ThePopehimself


    Deleted User wrote: »
    DCU are being proactive in their attitude to this virus:

    https://www.dcu.ie/safety/Coronavirus-COVID-19.shtml

    UL doing the same since the end of January. Updating regularly too and sending direct emails to all students. I would imagine (hope) all 3rd level institutions are doing the same.
    https://www.ul.ie/advice-ul-community-novel-coronavirus-outbreak-china


  • #7624
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Xertz wrote: »
    I think that's a total over reaction. If you get clear communication on what's needed and proper coordination, people are willing to be extremely cooperative on these things.

    The Chinese response was very extreme and because of the authoritarian nature of the state, it has an extremely low level of trust and people are either frighted of it, or have strategies to get around it - they smuggle, bend rules, hide information and so on.

    It causes conspiracy theories (many of which aren't unreasonable) and I wouldn't even be entirely sure of official Chinese facts and figures and you will find a lot of people in China aren't either.

    If Ireland or any European country has an issue with this, it needs to be led as a community effort to combat the virus spread, not some draconian crack down.

    An open, honest, non-coercive approach is far better and it's the only thing that will work in a country like Ireland.

    It's going to be a case of donning the green jersey and getting on with trying to deal with this in a cooperative, community kind of way here. There's no other way of doing it and when done right, it works.

    Even culturally, you're talking about Ireland, which is one of the least deferential countries in the world, along with Australia and NZ. The relationship with power here is about voluntary cooperation and information sharing. If you came down with draconian measures and arbitrary rules, it would just result in a total mess.

    That's also why the HSE and DoH needs to be absolutely 100% open and clear in communication. Paternalistic type approaches will backfire.
    Everyone needs to be on the same page on this kind of thing. It's not about top-down command chains.

    Well said!


  • #7625
    Xertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    You also have to remember that the HSE and other agencies have to work within Irish legal frameworks.

    It's not the USA or China or anywhere else. There is a whole raft of legal issues around releasing information that can identify a patient, and particular a minor that simply do not exist in some English speaking countries where they'd have no issue just dropping someone's details straight onto social media and to hell with the consequences.


  • #7626
    SleetAndSnow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,752 ✭✭✭SleetAndSnow


    ThePopehimself wrote: »
    UL doing the same since the end of January. Updating regularly too and sending direct emails to all students. I would imagine (hope) all 3rd level institutions are doing the same.
    https://www.ul.ie/advice-ul-community-novel-coronavirus-outbreak-china

    We have been getting weekly updates via Email on the virus since it started in China back in December in UCC. Seemed extreme then but now I appreciate the weekly updates


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  • #7627
    RugbyLad11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭RugbyLad11


    silver2020 wrote: »
    Aviva was not deemed unsafe. What was deemed unsafe was an estimated 3,000 italians coming to Dublin from Northern Italy which is their Rugby heartland.

    By cancelling the match it gives less reason for these fans to travel to the city.

    No reason? they surely would already have booked their hotels and flights.

    Plus the virus is out in the wild in their region so I'm sure they would like a nice weekend away in Dublin to be free.


  • #7628
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Xertz wrote: »
    There is a capacity problem. We all know that! It's nothing new.
    There's no conspiracy theory to be built around that.

    All we can do is work with what we have and do the best we can to contain it and deal with scenarios that crop up.

    I think sewing seeds of some grand coverup is frankly nonsense. If cases emerge, they'll emerge and you'll hear about them.

    I think (and this is completely speculative) is that 2 things have been decided based on what's happened here and EU so far.

    1. We are going to get it. (as in 50 - 80% of us in europe)
    2. We need to delay the spread so that everyone who needs hospitalisation doesn't arrive at once. (25% of positive cases in Italy are hospitalised and they are testing anyone who had direct contact with a case regardless of symptoms)


    If you disagree as is your entitlement. Why not ban travel from effected areas as has occurred in China etc ? Different approach yes but also different outcome.

    That also means a lot of people may die. So don't panic. Even if you say the first patient is a child and then immediately deny it.


  • #7629
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Deleted User wrote: »
    DCU are being proactive in their attitude to this virus:

    https://www.dcu.ie/safety/Coronavirus-COVID-19.shtml
    The MCU have taken the threat to a new level.

    avengers-infinity-war-1511963659.png?w=768


  • #7630
    leahyl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,425 ✭✭✭✭leahyl


    ThePopehimself wrote: »
    UL doing the same since the end of January. Updating regularly too and sending direct emails to all students. I would imagine (hope) all 3rd level institutions are doing the same.
    https://www.ul.ie/advice-ul-community-novel-coronavirus-outbreak-china

    Same in UCC


  • #7631
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    The World Championships for Irish dancing are being held in Dublin in just over three weeks. 3 thousand kids and over 10 thousand spectators from all over the world will be in attendance, predominately from the UK, USA, Canada, Australia and mainland Europe, not to mention those from the four corners of Ireland. Zero plans to cancel it thus far unless the government steps in and insists.
    It will be a melting pot for the infection spreading, and an absolute nightmare in terms of containment. If even a small amount of the kids/spectators become ill, it could seriously overwhelm the health system.
    It will be absolute madness if it goes ahead, and I can't see them cancelling.

    Absolutely agree, this sort of event should be banned. There may be disappointed kids but in the overall scheme of things, banning would be prudent given the international angle, and confined nature of the event.

    The fake tan industry will take a bit of a hit...


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  • #7632
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    The nihilistic types among us might decide to purposely spread the virus


  • #7633
    schmoo2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭schmoo2k


    leahyl wrote: »
    Same in UCC

    Similar in my place of work. (not weekly, but simple sensible advice and actions).


  • #7634
    Cuckoo7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 235 ✭✭Cuckoo7


    According to cnn news:

    The Czech government has banned the sale of FFP3 medical face masks to anyone but healthcare and social care facilities, public health bodies, emergency rescue services and other state administration bodies.

    The government said the FFP3 type of masks is most effective.

    The move is an attempt by the government to stop people from panic-buying the protective gear and leaving medical professionals at risk.


  • #7635
    Funsterdelux
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Funsterdelux


    joe40 wrote: »
    Absolutely agree, this sort of event should be banned. There may be disappointed kids but in the overall scheme of things, banning would be prudent given the international angle, and confined nature of the event.

    The fake tan industry will take a bit of a hit...

    Banned forever?


  • #7636
    dublin99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 226 ✭✭dublin99


    fr336 wrote: »
    Hospitals in France have been reported masks being stolen from them can you believe that

    If you look at the cities in Asia that have only recorded relatively small number of new cases and all traceable to existing clusters, like Singapore and Hongkong, these are places where EVERYONE wears a mask,ie protected from potential spreaders that are not symptomatic (yet) but nevertheless incubating and spreading the virus.

    Macau has not reported a new case for over 3 weeks. Everyone has to wear a mask on public transport.

    The reason they tell us masks are useless is because they know there aren't enough.


  • #7637
    RugbyLad11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭RugbyLad11


    newbie18892 wrote: »
    Quite startling to see 38 cases now today in the Netherlands. They reported their first case 6 days ago. Seems to be moving at a much quicker pace there than it is here. Our first case was confirmed only 2 days after theirs and we have only 2 confirmed cases as of today.

    I wonder how many tests have the performed? we've only performed a pathetic 200 tests


  • #7638
    leahyl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,425 ✭✭✭✭leahyl


    schmoo2k wrote: »
    Similar in my place of work. (not weekly, but simple sensible advice and actions).

    I’ve become way more conscious of using hand sanitizer more frequently as well as washing hands, can only be a good thing


  • #7639
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,337 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Tippex wrote: »
    Yep but what I mean is that people who received the letter from the HSE had posted it up online within minutes of receiving it. None of this has happened which is what is interesting me.

    It wasn't actually the HSE that broke the news with regards to the name of school etc but it naturally leaked very quickly, It isn't the case this time

    Can I ask why you care so much? You’ve clearly spent a lot of time trying to find out. If you were at risk you would have been contacted.


  • #7640
    RugbyLad11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭RugbyLad11


    pc7 wrote: »
    I've cancelled going to Paris Paddys weekend for our match, just taking it as a loss. Cant afford to be quarantined away from the smallies for 2 weeks. I'm sure Italian people who's country is suffering a massive outbreak won't be too keen to travel either.

    I would think it would be the opposite for Italians...no?

    Surely they would want to get out of the hot zone and go to a city with only 2 cases??:confused:


  • #7641
    Candamir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    RugbyLad11 wrote: »
    I wonder how many tests have the performed? we've only performed a pathetic 200 tests

    That’s pathetically inaccurate!!


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  • #7642
    Bob24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    caveat emptor wrote: »

    Point is it has happened in Europe and will happen here if it gets bad enough.

    What you describe is nowhere near what’s been done in China though.

    If the Wuhan model was applied to Northern Italy, all airports in the area would be closed, all intercity buses and trains would be stopped, public transport would be very restricted, people would be asked to stay at home and only go out once every few days with a mandatory mask to buy supplies, and no one would be going out of the area by road (not just a few small towns, whole metropolitan areas such as Milan and its suburbs).

    Whether it could or should be done is another story, but thinking that a few policemen outside a couple of Italian small towns is anywhere near what China has been doing would be a mistake.


  • #7643
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Xertz wrote: »
    I think that's a total over reaction. If you get clear communication on what's needed and proper coordination, people are willing to be extremely cooperative on these things.

    The Chinese response was very extreme and because of the authoritarian nature of the state, it has an extremely low level of trust and people are either frighted of it, or have strategies to get around it - they smuggle, bend rules, hide information and so on.

    It causes conspiracy theories (many of which aren't unreasonable) and I wouldn't even be entirely sure of official Chinese facts and figures and you will find a lot of people in China aren't either.

    If Ireland or any European country has an issue with this, it needs to be led as a community effort to combat the virus spread, not some draconian crack down.

    An open, honest, non-coercive approach is far better and it's the only thing that will work in a country like Ireland.

    It's going to be a case of donning the green jersey and getting on with trying to deal with this in a cooperative, community kind of way here. There's no other way of doing it and when done right, it works.

    Even culturally, you're talking about Ireland, which is one of the least deferential countries in the world, along with Australia and NZ. The relationship with power here is about voluntary cooperation and information sharing. If you came down with draconian measures and arbitrary rules, it would just result in a total mess.

    That's also why the HSE and DoH needs to be absolutely 100% open and clear in communication. Paternalistic type approaches will backfire.
    Everyone needs to be on the same page on this kind of thing. It's not about top-down command chains.

    Well said! We need to be real about the situation and act accordingly. Not hope that it will be grand and then afterwards say "how did we not see that coming?" It's not like it hasn't already hit several countries. Unfortunately we will treat as a uniquely Irish problem like Traffic, planning, health care and house prices /bank crises.


  • #7644
    Xertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    ..
    That also means a lot of people may die. So don't panic. Even if you say the first patient is a child and then immediately deny it.

    I actually don't quite understand what you're talking about. I mean, what do you want people do do?

    Run around like headless chickens in some kind of blind panic? Lord of the Flies?

    There's no point in panicking. We have the facilities we have. There's a secondary political discussion to be had about why those facilities are under capacity and I think we've just had that during the election. That isn't a short term problem. It's been a mixture of bad policy making and the 2008 economic melt down. However, we are where we are and we aren't going to be able to snap our fingers and change that and suddenly have 3X the A&E capacity.

    We have a limited amount of ICU beds, but I was looking at stats and they're actually very much in line with the UK and a few other countries in Northern Europe. Those kinds of facilities aren't generally built to have on stand by, rather they're built in line with need. That's not unusual or strange.

    We aren't going to be able to suddenly build and staff thousands of ICU beds, but we will just have to cope with what we have and use the resources as best as we can.

    This isn't China. You can't just command people on pain of death or arrest not to do X, Y and Z. All you can do is appeal to common sense and ask people to be cooperative and in general they are.

    The worst aspect of social media, forums and tabloids is that they seem to get off on the panic and the frightening stories.

    Yes, this is a serious situation. Yes, we potentially could be facing serious problems but what's the point in going into utterly freaked out mode.

    It's time to take a breath (carefully) and plan appropriately.


  • #7645
    ThePopehimself
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 336 ✭✭ThePopehimself


    Tippex wrote: »
    What is surprising me is the lack of information breaking about the woman from last night. There does not seem to be anything on social media about the contact tracing etc. No indication of location etc. (I did see a whatsapp message about it being DCU but took that with a bucket of salt as it was the only one I seen) ,this was posted before I seen the link above from DCU ;)


    New York state also reported its second case yesterday... Big difference in reporting to our second case


    The New York Times 03/03/2020

    “The Tuesday announcement of New York State’s second confirmed case of coronavirus may be the first known example of community transmission on the East Coast, suggesting the virus is spreading to people with no direct connection to hot spots for the disease.

    The patient is a man in his fifties who lives in New Rochelle, New York—a suburb about 20 miles from midtown Manhattan—but commutes into Manhattan to work as an attorney. The man has no known travel history to China or other countries on the virus watch list.


    Below is the update – also The NY Times:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/03/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-state.html

    “The discovery of a second case of the new coronavirus in New York on Tuesday…quickly touched off an intense search by health investigators across the region…
    …The inquiry stretched from a hospital in Bronxville, N.Y., to a synagogue in nearby New Rochelle, to a law firm and a college campus in Manhattan and to Florida, where the man had visited weeks ago.”


  • #7646
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭Allinall


    RugbyLad11 wrote: »
    I wonder how many tests have the performed? we've only performed a pathetic 200 tests

    How do you know this?


  • #7647
    Tippex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,958 ✭✭✭Tippex


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Can I ask why you care so much? You’ve clearly spent a lot of time trying to find out. If you were at risk you would have been contacted.
    because it is an internet forum where people get to discuss different topics and I am interested just like anyone else is interested in different topics.

    Why do you want to know why I care so much?


  • #7648
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,337 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    I think (and this is completely speculative) is that 2 things have been decided based on what's happened here and EU so far.

    1. We are going to get it. (as in 50 - 80% of us in europe)
    2. We need to delay the spread so that everyone who needs hospitalisation doesn't arrive at once. (25% of positive cases in Italy are hospitalised and they are testing anyone who had direct contact with a case regardless of symptoms)


    If you disagree as is your entitlement. Why not ban travel from effected areas as has occurred in China etc ? Different approach yes but also different outcome.

    That also means a lot of people may die. So don't panic. Even if you say the first patient is a child and then immediately deny it.

    With less than 1% of the population in China getting it why do you think 50 - 80% of the population in Europe will get it?


  • #7649
    RugbyLad11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭RugbyLad11


    US2 wrote: »
    In not panicking or anything, but why do our hse think this wont or cant spread between Irish people? They seem to think only people coming back from Italy will be affected.

    If they only test a few people then they can keep the numbers of confirmed cases low for as long as possible. It seems they are following the american approach.


  • #7650
    1641
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭1641


    Xertz wrote: »
    There is a capacity problem. We all know that! It's nothing new.
    There's no conspiracy theory to be built around that. It's just fact.

    All we can do is work with what we have and do the best we can to contain it and deal with scenarios that crop up.

    I think sowing seeds of some grand coverup is frankly nonsense. If cases emerge, they'll emerge and you'll hear about them.

    All they can do is attempt to contain it, but as someone was pointing out yesterday it's like trying to catch water with a sieve. There's only so much you can actually do without putting the entire country into individual bubbles. It's not ideal, but that's the reality of dealing with viral infections.


    And to contain it (even in the short term) we are dependent on people who have symptoms and who suspect they have the virus, coming forward to report this and accept isolation. If we think that the GP/HSE releasing potentially identifying information about such people won't put some off from reporting at all then we are deluding ourselves. Particularly so if the person is only mildly ill.


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  • #7651
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Bob24 wrote: »
    What you describe is nowhere near what’s been done in China though.

    If the Wuhan model was applied to Northern Italy, all airports in the area would be closed, all intercity buses and trains would be stopped, public transport would be very restricted, people would be asked to stay at home and only go out once every few days with a mandatory mask to buy supplies, and no one would be going out of the area by road (not just a few small towns, whole metropolitan areas such as Milan and its suburbs).

    Exactly the difference in approach is evident and based on European CDC decision that we (Europe) can't contain it. (see previous post)
    WHO is in disagreement with this and thinks it can be contained based on places like Singapore and HongKong.

    But as other posters have stated what that means in practice HSE telling people "masks not effective" cause we don't have any.


This discussion has been closed.
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