Now ye're talking - to a landlord

Boards.ie: Niamh · 03-03-2020 1:04pm #1

Our next guest is a landlord and would like to answer your questions about being a landlord and what's involved and maybe clear up some misconceptions as well.

Hi All
I'm a landlord since 2004. I bought my first rental house in 2004 when I was 23.
I've 3 in total now (hopefully all paid off in 9 years time). I have survived the recession (barely) and met some amazing and crazy people since 2004.

The media has put a really negative spin on all landlords and perhaps this AMA might give a bit of balance to it all, it's far from the cashcow it's made out to be. With 55% tax on rents (ignoring the mortgage!!), they are still not worth what I paid for them...

I have had it all from a bomb being made in my house and it appearing on the news.

Tenants telling me there was a ghost in the attic and what was I going to do about it.

An overweight tenant telling me they were going to sue me as the next doors kids called her a Roly-Poly.

Tenants arguing that punch holes in walls were wear and tear.

Tenants robbing all the lightbulbs when they moved out, etc.

Happy to answer any questions you all may have.

Doop · 03-03-2020 1:52pm

How did you fiance the first purchase in 2004? BTL mortgage?

Turquoise Hexagon Sun · 03-03-2020 1:54pm

It's hard to find a good rental accommadation with all the competion. What can a potential tennant do to stand out from the crowd when trying to get rent a place?

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 1:59pm

Doop wrote: »

How did you fiance the first purchase in 2004? BTL mortgage?

Hi there
I went to the bank and told them the house purchase was for myself.
I tried to get a BuyToLet mortgage but they wanted a 25% deposit
I think it was only 8% when I told them I was going to live in it ..

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 2:02pm

Turquoise Hexagon Sun wrote: »

It's hard to find a good rental accommadation with all the competion. What can a potential tennant do to stand out from the crowd when trying to get rent a place?

Its pretty difficult for landlords too , you get overwhelmed by all the responses and some people have genuine hard luck stories ...and its hard to "pick" someone so to speak.. you only really have 15 mins to form an opinion of someone and trust them with your house ..

if I was giving someone advice go to a viewing and have the months rent, and deposit ready to go and all references printed off for the agent/landlord

Ashf8772 · 03-03-2020 2:15pm

Sounds like you've been through it all!!!

stoneybats · 03-03-2020 2:39pm

So you want to put a bit of 'balance' on the 'negative spin on all landlords', but then in your first reply you say you lied in your mortgage application for your first buy-to-let?

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 2:45pm

stoneybats wrote: »

So you want to put a bit of 'balance' on the 'negative spin on all landlords', but then in your first reply you say you lied in your mortgage application for your first buy-to-let?

That is true yes... I did have to save up the 8% deposit myself an then I think the stamp duty was another 15k and then 2k of solicitors bills . I wanted to get a rental house for my future/pension

The negative spin I was referring to was about that we are all in it for the greed and making a fortune with rents not paying any tax etc..

LollipopJimmy · 03-03-2020 2:55pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

That is true yes... I did have to save up the 8% deposit myself an then I think the stamp duty was another 15k and then 2k of solicitors bills . I wanted to get a rental house for my future/pension

The negative spin I was referring to was about that we are all in it for the greed and making a fortune with rents not paying any tax etc..

You make a point there, you mention it being for your future or pension.

I feel this gets overlooked by a lot of landlords, yes there is tax on the income, yes you have a mortgage to pay but you also have a hugely valuable asset at the end of it. A landlord of mine during the recession was trying to increase my rent and crying the poor mouth because what she had left after tax/ins etc only covered the mortgage.

With that said, is it your aim as a landlord to be in profit at the end of the month or when you sell the property?

SureYWouldntYa · 03-03-2020 3:08pm

How thorough are you with reference checks for tenants? I'm currently the "landlord" for a few friends, I've gotten a couple calls over the years but I keep it short and just say they were with me x to y and always paid on time, nothing more

Have you ever got a bad feeling with someone at a viewing either and ruled them out? Vice versa, ever got a good vibe off someone and was just happy to take them and didn't do reference checks or the likes

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 3:12pm

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

You make a point there, you mention it being for your future or pension.

I feel this gets overlooked by a lot of landlords, yes there is tax on the income, yes you have a mortgage to pay but you also have a hugely valuable asset at the end of it. A landlord of mine during the recession was trying to increase my rent and crying the poor mouth because what she had left after tax/ins etc only covered the mortgage.

With that said, is it your aim as a landlord to be in profit at the end of the month or when you sell the property?

Hi , the tax rules have changed a good bit since I bought the first one
there was no PRSI on rental income, no second house tax , no LPT, no levy and as far as I remember you could claim all the mortgage interest back not just 75% of it ,no PRTB etc

last year was the first year since 2004 that the houses actually paid for themselves i.e. they covered the mortgage and paid for the tax bill so for 16 odd years I had to supplement the mortgage and pay a big tax bill annually on them …

My plan is to have them paid off in 9 years then then perhaps I would not have to work so hard or work at all and I could live off the rents and as you said own the assets also

irish_goat · 03-03-2020 3:13pm

What did you do about the ghost?

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 3:16pm

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

You make a point there, you mention it being for your future or pension.

I feel this gets overlooked by a lot of landlords, yes there is tax on the income, yes you have a mortgage to pay but you also have a hugely valuable asset at the end of it. A landlord of mine during the recession was trying to increase my rent and crying the poor mouth because what she had left after tax/ins etc only covered the mortgage.

With that said, is it your aim as a landlord to be in profit at the end of the month or when you sell the property?

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

How thorough are you with reference checks for tenants? I'm currently the "landlord" for a few friends, I've gotten a couple calls over the years but I keep it short and just say they were with me x to y and always paid on time, nothing more

Have you ever got a bad feeling with someone at a viewing either and ruled them out? Vice versa, ever got a good vibe off someone and was just happy to take them and didn't do reference checks or the likes

I've found its more to do with the vibe you get from the person when you meet them .. I suspect most references are made up or pals of the prospective tenant...… the situation out there re property is desperate at the moment so people are doing what they can to secure a place..

I have met people who's references were perfect and just gotten a bad vibe when I met them and I have met people with no references but gotten a good vibe from them and given them the place...

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 3:17pm

irish_goat wrote: »

What did you do about the ghost?

:D told them to move the xmas tree in the attic

Pawwed Rig · 03-03-2020 3:22pm

If the house is for a pension then why are you holding it personally rather than through a self administered pension fund?

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 3:30pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If the house is for a pension then why are you holding it personally rather than through a self administered pension fund?

I was 23 when I bought the first house . I didn't know anything about pensions
or a self administered fund .. I still don't …

I didn't buy the houses outright I have mortgages on them .. I don't think the bank would let a self administered pension fund buy them with a mortgage

JustMe,K · 03-03-2020 4:02pm

How habitable are the houses now? Have you had to spend significant sums refurbing after anyone has left? Are the properties in RPZs and have you considered renting out any of them for 10 years to the council?

ParkRunner · 03-03-2020 4:04pm

Given the hefty taxes and charges now required of landlords would you recommend new landlords enter the letting market or not?

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 4:09pm

JustMe,K wrote: »

How habitable are the houses now? Have you had to spend significant sums refurbing after anyone has left? Are the properties in RPZs and have you considered renting out any of them for 10 years to the council?

Hi,
yes all are in the RPZ and all are with HAP. I did have to spend about 10k refurbing one after a tenant left .. the cops raided the place and they did a bit of damage on the celling and the back door ..

HAP used to be brilliant but there is a 4 month wait on getting paid at the moment when a tenant moves in for the first time ..this is the only downside that I can see about HAP..i had to cover the mortgage on one place from last October to end of Jan .. which was a right pain given xmas , my own mortgage etc ..

All are extremely habitable !!! if the tenant has any issue I do my best to have them resolved asap for them...

LollipopJimmy · 03-03-2020 4:09pm

What is the most positive thing that happened to you as a landlord - as an example, a mate of mine was renting a house that was in OK condition, he let it out at a price that reflected it and 5 years later when the tenants left he was expecting to do a full refurb - he hadn't much contact with the tenants but it turns out the lad was a tradesman and had refurbished the house over the 5 years from top to bottom

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 4:18pm

ParkRunner wrote: »

Given the hefty taxes and charges now required of landlords would you recommend new landlords enter the letting market or not?

Hi I would and wouldn't to be honest.

Its a 25 year commitment before you can make money from it.

I have 9 years left . you never really know what's around he corner, the recession was quite hard I had to put 1/3 of my wages to them per month to keep them and pay my own rent.....

I bought the 3 places for 807k all together
they went up to 1.2 million in 2007 and then down to 400k in 2010

so basically if I had to sell all them in 2010 I would have owed the bank 400 k odd after I sold them .. I was 23 when the bank gave me the mortgage .. I was a lot braver then I am now …. we were all told to get on the ladder. they are never going to go down yada yada yada

there is also a lot of tax to pay

This is a ROUGH example

rent is 1000 per month
mortgage is 1000 per month

At the end of the year the revenue will look at the 12000 rent as income and give you a tax bill of about 5 k on it ...

03-03-2020 4:19pm

Years ago a really bad landlord actually bragged to me that he was on his way to his tenant to upset him.
This landlord is no longer one btw and a lot more besides I care not to mention.

Do you know any other bad form landlords like that?

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 4:23pm

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

What is the most positive thing that happened to you as a landlord - as an example, a mate of mine was renting a house that was in OK condition, he let it out at a price that reflected it and 5 years later when the tenants left he was expecting to do a full refurb - he hadn't much contact with the tenants but it turns out the lad was a tradesman and had refurbished the house over the 5 years from top to bottom

ha never happened me .. every time I had to repaint the place... and do a bit of repairs here and there ..

I did have a tenant that unbeknown to me was in a VERY bad place when they moved in they ended up living in my place for 9 years and while there totally transformed their life around .. even released a book while they were living in my house (which I bought) that was a really positive thing that I will always remember seeing that massive change in them

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 4:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Years ago a really bad landlord actually bragged to me that he was on his way to his tenant to upset him.
This landlord is no longer one btw and a lot more besides I care not to mention.

Do you know any other bad form landlords like that?

No I don't .. I'm not surprised that that person did not last long as a landlord
you have to respect the tenants rights for privacy and that too ….

03-03-2020 4:38pm

I'm really lost when landlords say they're broke from renting.

You gave a rough formulation there:

€1000 pm rent
€1000 pm mortgage
Taxman wants 5k at the end of the year as he sees the 12k as income.

But when the mortgage is paid, you can carry on renting or sell the property. You're left with a pretty big asset (or 3 of them in your case).
Whereas renters continue to have low standards of living (as rents are generally >50% of salary) and can't save for mortgages as rents are so high.

As an investment, I see nothing wrong for the taxman looking for so much. You'll get your money back (and much more!) eventually.

Anyway, my question.

As a landlord, what would you suggest needs to be done to alleviate the nation of the housing crisis?

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 4:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm really lost when landlords say they're broke from renting.

You gave a rough formulation there:

€1000 pm rent
€1000 pm mortgage
Taxman wants 5k at the end of the year as he sees the 12k as income.

But when the mortgage is paid, you can carry on renting or sell the property. You're left with a pretty big asset (or 3 of them in your case).
Whereas renters continue to have low standards of living (as rents are generally >50% of salary) and can't save for mortgages as rents are so high.

As an investment, I see nothing wrong for the taxman looking for so much. You'll get your money back (and much more!) eventually.

Anyway, my question.

As a landlord, what would you suggest needs to be done to alleviate the nation of the housing crisis?

Hi there

The mortgage is for a term of 25 years …
The 5k that in my example that the revenue would want . you would not physically have from the rent... try getting up 10k when you have to pay your own mortgage and live....

Some taxes on properties didn't exist in 2003 . PRSI on rent,USC on Rent ,PRTB,LPT etc one year your tax bill is 6k the next its 10k

Yes i will have a pretty big asset but it was no walk in the park keeping them and maintaining them.

I saved up for a mortgage in 2003 while all my pals were going on holidays and buying new cars i was bringing my own lunch to work and staying in on the weekends...that wasn't fun either but i did it …

re your question …

The government needs to build more units for social housing
HAP is far to high .. this is driving a lot of the rent increases.
Perhaps some tax cuts for private landlords
A cut in the deposit amount for buyers

Hyzepher · 03-03-2020 4:55pm

How much do you pay to have your accounts done or do you do them yourself?

03-03-2020 5:00pm

How often do you get the boilers checked in your rental properties?

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 5:01pm

Hyzepher wrote: »

How much do you pay to have your accounts done or do you do them yourself?

Hi
I get an accountant to do them at the end of the year for me.
as far as I remember this years bill was about 500 per house for the year.

lawrencesummers · 03-03-2020 5:01pm

How much did you increase the rent by when you found out they had sublet the attic to a ghost?

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 5:02pm

Wynter Tiny Taster wrote: »

How often do you get the boilers checked in your rental properties?

1 has oil heating which has never given a days problem in 15 years...
the other 2 are gas and are serviced yearly by an approved agent

lawrencesummers · 03-03-2020 5:02pm

Have revenue ever audited your returns?

How do you “pick” tenants? Gut instinct? Their job? References?

lawrencesummers · 03-03-2020 5:03pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

Hi
I get an accountant to do them at the end of the year for me.
as far as I remember this years bill was about 500 per house for the year.

I think your paying wayyyy over the odds here.

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 5:03pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

How much did you increase the rent by when you found out they had sublet the attic to a ghost?

Hahahah … the ghost just had to pay to resubmit the amended PRTB form-> 90 euros !

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 5:05pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I think your paying wayyyy over the odds here.

I know yeah .. considering its 3 lines per month each have their own bank accounts...so its quite neat...

1 mortgage debit
1 rent credit
1 house insurance debit

then end of the year a handful of invoices for repairs and that

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 5:07pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Have revenue ever audited your returns?

How do you “pick” tenants? Gut instinct? Their job? References?

Yep got a desk audit a few years back as far as I remember
all was grand with it ..

A combination of all 3 to be honest .. basically you have 15 mins to make an opinion of someone which might not or might be correct …..

lawrencesummers · 03-03-2020 5:08pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

I know yeah .. considering its 3 lines per month each have their own bank accounts...so its quite neat...

1 mortgage debit
1 rent credit
1 house insurance debit

then end of the year a handful of invoices for repairs and that

It’s deductible AFAIK, but I pay less than half that, and it’s a one time fee. Irrespective of the amount of property or complexity of the return.

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 5:11pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s deductible AFAIK, but I pay less than half that, and it’s a one time fee. Irrespective of the amount of property or complexity of the return.

It is deductible yes ...so basically you can either give it to the accountant or to the revenue ….

Pawwed Rig · 03-03-2020 5:15pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

I was 23 when I bought the first house . I didn't know anything about pensions
or a self administered fund .. I still don't …

I didn't buy the houses outright I have mortgages on them .. I don't think the bank would let a self administered pension fund buy them with a mortgage

They would. Might be worth looking into

Zero tax charges

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 5:21pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

They would. Might be worth looking into Zero tax charges

thanks for that ill ask the accountant when i see him next

lawrencesummers · 03-03-2020 5:40pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

It is deductible yes ...so basically you can either give it to the accountant or to the revenue ….

By that rationale maybe you should see if they could charge you more and you would be saving more.

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 5:42pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

By that rationale maybe you should see if they could charge you more and you would be saving more.

that is a silly thing to say ,but thanks for your input

lawrencesummers · 03-03-2020 5:48pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

that is a silly thing to say ,but thanks for your input

Not really. When you justify being overcharged as not costing you anything it’s just along the exact same lines.

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 5:53pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Not really. When you justify being overcharged as not costing you anything it’s just along the exact same lines.

Its not costing me anything extra .. its 100% deductible.

ie it comes off the tax bill

im sure you know how it works as you say you are a landlord also .

your comment about charging more to save more is silly.

lets keep this on topic please

dubrov · 03-03-2020 5:56pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

Its not costing me anything its 100% deductible.

That line is disturbing given how long you are a landlord.

Iscreamkone · 03-03-2020 6:11pm

If a future government brings in rent freezes, will you continue as a landlord.

I reckon many landlords will sell up and tenants will pay remaining landlords cash on top of the rent freeze to get places.

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 6:21pm

Iscreamkone wrote: »

If a future government brings in rent freezes, will you continue as a landlord.

I reckon many landlords will sell up and tenants will pay remaining landlords cash on top of the rent freeze to get places.

No I would continue , I have no choice to be honest
if I added up all the tax ,repairs etc that i paid since 2004 and sold the houses it would only break even … so no point in selling up to break even after 16 years....

i do agree with you re the tenants paying cash on top if there was a rent freeze ….this has always been the way from Rent Allowance to RAS to HAP .. I think a rent freeze would be a bad thing as it will introduce more of a black market to the industry and tenants would be afraid to raise any issues with a landlord in case they were rocking the boat so to speak

yuridwyer · 03-03-2020 6:30pm

When you were audited how far back did they audit? One year, three years?

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 03-03-2020 6:36pm

yuridwyer wrote: »

When you were audited how far back did they audit? One year, three years?

I cant remember to be honest..
it was what was called a desk audit .. basically the revenue had a few queries about the return .. my accountant dealt with them all and gave them the answers to the questions that they were looking for ……

but i do know of a landlord (not personally) that was getting cash for the rent and was audited … he had to sell the house to cover the interest and penalties ...he has no idea how or why he was audited....

Gloomtastic! · 03-03-2020 8:21pm

Jeez, you are being ripped off stupid by your accountant! You’re paying him €1500 a year and he’s not advising you how to save €1000’s off your tax bill!!!!

I’ve never worked with an accountant that didn’t disappoint.

circular flexing · 03-03-2020 8:23pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

Its not costing me anything extra .. its 100% deductible.

ie it comes off the tax bill

im sure you know how it works as you say you are a landlord also .

your comment about charging more to save more is silly.

lets keep this on topic please

He is only trying to help. You are being fleeced by your accountant and you are unaware that this is happening. You don't understand how deductions work.

Anyway, my question is how long do you think you will hold onto these properties? Does it concern you that there might be another crash and you might be left exposed if you did want to sell them.

Now ye're talking - to a landlord

Comments