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Cleaners Protesting Outside Ardkeen

  • 28-02-2020 10:16pm
    #1
    Motivator
    Registered Users Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭


    I was in the hospital this afternoon and on the way in I passed an angry group of people protesting about their pay. I understand these people are meant to be the cleaners in the hospital? My word, some of these people look as if they can’t clean themselves never mind a public hospital. What exactly are they complaining about? I was speaking to a hospital employee who said it got very heated because someone had said to the group that if they did a proper job cleaning then they’d get a proper wage.


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Comments

  • #2
    BBM77
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭BBM77


    There is something a bit too much about them alright. Seems to be a very militant group behind the strike. On the first day they were blocking Nursery Lane.


  • #3
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Motivator wrote: »
    I was in the hospital this afternoon and on the way in I passed an angry group of people protesting about their pay. I understand these people are meant to be the cleaners in the hospital? My word, some of these people look as if they can’t clean themselves never mind a public hospital. What exactly are they complaining about? I was speaking to a hospital employee who said it got very heated because someone had said to the group that if they did a proper job cleaning then they’d get a proper wage.

    You should have asked them.


  • #4
    debok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 814 ✭✭✭debok


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    You should have asked them.

    Yeh it would seem easier to ask them and get an informed answer from the strikers themselves when he was passing than to come on to a message board anonymously


  • #5
    Mysterypunter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Mysterypunter


    That hospital is in a mess, security men out there who think they are cops. Tough conditions for anyone to work in


  • #6
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    They should start telling people how much they will be paid before they start working in places so they can avoid getting angry afterwards..........


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  • #7
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    They should start telling people how much they will be paid before they start working in places so they can avoid getting angry afterwards..........

    Well, in fairness, yesterday's CSO wage figures did state that the services sector were the most poorly paid in the state.


  • #8
    wsopchamp
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭wsopchamp


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Well, in fairness, yesterday's CSO wage figures did state that the services sector were the most poorly paid in the state.

    Long term cleaners out there are on well above minimum wage,€13+PH.a lot of people might find that good pay nowadays .
    lot of confusion among hospital staff as to why exactly they are out ( pay ,change of work practice ??)
    but as long as there is a picket on gate a lot of people wont pass and unfortunately for all concerned this may drag out.


  • #9
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    wsopchamp wrote: »
    Long term cleaners out there are on well above minimum wage,€13+PH.a lot of people might find that good pay nowadays .
    lot of confusion among hospital staff as to why exactly they are out ( pay ,change of work practice ??)
    but as long as there is a picket on gate a lot of people wont pass and unfortunately for all concerned this may drag out.

    According to CSO qtr 4 2019 Earnings and Labour costs survey, the wages for Accommodation and Food Services staff is €381 avg per week.
    The lowest in the country.


  • #10
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,971 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    Here is what union says https://unitetheunionireland.org/2020/02/27/waterford-hospital-cleaners-strike-continues-following-breakdown-of-talks-with-momentum/
    February 27th: Over 125 Unite members working for cleaning services provider Momentum at University Hospital Waterford remain on strike today (Thursday) following the overnight breakdown of talks at the WRC. The dispute centres around unilateral changes to workers’ conditions imposed by Momentum after it took over the provision of cleaning services at the hospital from ISS. Cleaning workers at the hospital transferred from ISS to Momentum under TUPE last September.

    Pointing out that the company’s flagrant disregard for accepted industrial relations procedures is in conflict with the HSE’s own processes, Unite Regional Officer Tony Kelly called on the HSE to intervene in the dispute and remind Momentum of its obligations:


    “By imposing unilateral changes, such as changes to shift patterns, without consultation Momentum has driven a coach and four through accepted industrial relations procedures. The company’s behaviour is contrary not only to usual procedures at University Hospital Waterford, but is also in conflict with the HSE’s own processes.

    “Momentum’s intransigence led to talks at the WRC collapsing overnight and members will now discuss next steps in this dispute. Cleaning workers play a critical role in any hospital, and are determined to be treated with respect.

    “The HSE bears ultimate responsibility for the behaviour of contractors in our health system, and I would urge them to intervene in this dispute and remind Momentum of its obligation to observe normal industrial relations procedures in its dealings with workers”, Tony Kelly concluded.


  • #11
    barraseaclaid
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭barraseaclaid


    From what I can see (and you can take it or leave it): the workers who transferred over from ISS to momentum are upset because they are now being held to account over their existing work practices which to put it bluntly, are not up to scratch!
    Some personal observations (as a long term hospital employee, obviously don't want to give too much identifying information)
    - Female cleaning staff in certain areas of the hospital not empting domestic bins/waste stating that "that is man's work"
    - Staff on a four hour shift (4.30pm to 8.30pm approx) standing around until they can gain access to office areas at 5pm (ISS tried to change the shift times to match office hours but there were IR issues around this)
    -Same staff on shift above on tea break for up to 30min (no entitlement to same based on length of shift, but just enough time to watch their nightly dose of Corrie before heading home)

    - during washing of floors staff washing around desk chairs and not moving them to wash underneath, generally doing the bare minimum to ensure the supervisor doesn't cotton on)

    My personal highlight....
    During one of the recent "switch it off" campaigns to reduce the hospital's energy impact I asked the cleaner if they could switch off the lights on the way out of a room after cleaning it. They refused as they are not paid to do it!!!!

    During the strike momentum have drafted in auxillary staff to cover and I hate to say it but where I work has never been cleaner, floors washed, countertops wiped down, glass on doors cleaned, door handles, mirrors surfaces all cleaned, compared with the quick sweep and mop of the usual crowd.

    And as far as the actions of the strikers themselves...they should be ashamed of their carry on. When the nurses were out they did it in a dignified and peaceful manner.

    These guys have so far:
    Blocked the footpath for wheelchair users at the main entrance by parking a car on the footpath at the zebra crossing
    Stopped antenatal patients from driving through the picket to get to their appointments
    Blocked vans delivering blood to the hospital from getting through until security were called to escort.

    Whatever level of understanding I had for these guys by means of a peaceful picket has been eroded by these actions.


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  • #12
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    I have to say that I was appalled by the hygiene standards in WRH when visiting a family member recently.

    It felt like everything had a layer of dirt on it. My sister nearly cried when she saw the state of the toilets on the wards.

    Got said family member out of WRH and into another hospital and the difference was huge. Toilet sealed and covered for new patients and everything spotless.


  • #13
    Motivator
    Registered Users Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭Motivator


    barraseaclaid wrote: »
    From what I can see (and you can take it or leave it): the workers who transferred over from ISS to momentum are upset because they are now being held to account over their existing work practices which to put it bluntly, are not up to scratch!
    Some personal observations (as a long term hospital employee, obviously don't want to give too much identifying information)
    - Female cleaning staff in certain areas of the hospital not empting domestic bins/waste stating that "that is man's work"
    - Staff on a four hour shift (4.30pm to 8.30pm approx) standing around until they can gain access to office areas at 5pm (ISS tried to change the shift times to match office hours but there were IR issues around this)
    -Same staff on shift above on tea break for up to 30min (no entitlement to same based on length of shift, but just enough time to watch their nightly dose of Corrie before heading home)

    - during washing of floors staff washing around desk chairs and not moving them to wash underneath, generally doing the bare minimum to ensure the supervisor doesn't cotton on)

    My personal highlight....
    During one of the recent "switch it off" campaigns to reduce the hospital's energy impact I asked the cleaner if they could switch off the lights on the way out of a room after cleaning it. They refused as they are not paid to do it!!!!

    During the strike momentum have drafted in auxillary staff to cover and I hate to say it but where I work has never been cleaner, floors washed, countertops wiped down, glass on doors cleaned, door handles, mirrors surfaces all cleaned, compared with the quick sweep and mop of the usual crowd.

    And as far as the actions of the strikers themselves...they should be ashamed of their carry on. When the nurses were out they did it in a dignified and peaceful manner.

    These guys have so far:
    Blocked the footpath for wheelchair users at the main entrance by parking a car on the footpath at the zebra crossing
    Stopped antenatal patients from driving through the picket to get to their appointments
    Blocked vans delivering blood to the hospital from getting through until security were called to escort.

    Whatever level of understanding I had for these guys by means of a peaceful picket has been eroded by these actions.

    That is shocking but not very surprising. The hygiene in Ardkeen has been appalling for years now and the personal hygiene of some of the cleaning staff leaves a lot to be desired. I had a brief stay as a patient a number of years ago and the cleaner used the same rag to clean the windows, the sink, taps and then the trays on each of the beds in the ward.

    I didn’t know the exact reason why they were protesting this week but if it’s for the reasons you stated above then that it absolutely outrageous. They are not HSE staff, they’re bottom of the pile so why not sack them all and bring in people who will actually do the job they are being paid to do?


  • #14
    azimuth17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,073 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    I went to collect a relative from Ardkeen. Both entrances had very aggressive picketing. Those involved should make their protest at the main entrance and leave the side entrance free. Unite should tell them its a massive public health facility they work in at a time of possible virus pandemic, not the glass factory. No cop on I'm afraid, no matter how justified their case may or may not be.


  • #15
    dlnv27
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭dlnv27


    I am one of the people on the picket line. I have done duty on all 4 entrances to the UHW. No has been stopped entering the hospital. Green Star have been passing collecting the waste compactors. All suppliers to the catering and all courier deliveries to other parts of the hospital have driven passed pickets with no problems. I have to say the cleaner bashing is really starting to kick in. We just want to do our job but when you have Momentum support ignoring the TUPE agreement seemingly with the full support of senior hospital management, we have no other option.


  • #16
    vriesmays
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    A strike in Waterford, seen it all now.


  • #17
    un5byh7sqpd2x0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭un5byh7sqpd2x0


    dlnv27 wrote: »
    I am one of the people on the picket line. I have done duty on all 4 entrances to the UHW. No has been stopped entering the hospital. Green Star have been passing collecting the waste compactors. All suppliers to the catering and all courier deliveries to other parts of the hospital have driven passed pickets with no problems. I have to say the cleaner bashing is really starting to kick in. We just want to do our job but when you have Momentum support ignoring the TUPE agreement seemingly with the full support of senior hospital management, we have no other option.
    Nonsense, utter nonsense.


  • #18
    dlnv27
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭dlnv27


    Can you please tell me what part of this is nonsense


  • #19
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    dlnv27 wrote: »
    Can you please tell me what part of this is nonsense

    For clarity, do you disagree with the points made by the likes of azimuth17 and barraseaclaid?


  • #20
    Crusty Blaa
    Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭Crusty Blaa


    A family member is an employee in the hospital and would normally walk into work but the last few days has had to drive in due to the intimidating nature of the picket and also as a result of a few snidey comments being passed her way. She hasn't been the only one on the receiving end of this by all accounts.

    Like another poster said, she hasn't seen the hospital as clean since the strike started. Go figure..


  • #21
    dlnv27
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭dlnv27


    I would disagree with azimuth17 post. We are picketing all gates into the hospital not to stop people or deliveries. As I said in my previous post I have not seen any vehicle or person stopped from entering the hospital. Regarding barraseaclaid post. The women cleaners are employed to clean and the men are employed to empty the bins. Momentum support have employed women on lower rates of pay and expect them to clean and also empty the bins. Regarding the staff on the evening shift I work days so I could not comment on that. If barraseaclaid is so upset about that they should contact the Momentum support office and let them know what's going on. Regarding the car parked on the footpath, I have to say I have seen that and I totally agree with their opinion.


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  • #22
    notfromhere
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭notfromhere


    My better half works there, they have told me that people have been spat at , abuse shouted at when walking past the picket .Some people have been stoped from going into work so that they lose a days pay.Blocking of cars, of people trying to get in for appointments.Most of them cleaners never went out with the nurses when they went out, and yet they want everbody out with them.Some not all of them are pure <SNIP> if there were sacked i for one would not lose any sleep.


  • #23
    mooseknunkle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭mooseknunkle


    notfromhere wrote: »
    My better half works there, they have told me that people have been spat at , abuse shouted at when walking past the picket .Some people have been stoped from going into work so that they lose a days pay.Blocking of cars, of people trying to get in for appointments.Most of them cleaners never went out with the nurses when they went out, and yet they want everbody out with them.Some not all of them are pure <SNIP> if there were sacked i for one would not lose any sleep.

    I seen something on twitter that said there is a ballot for an all out strike for all Unite members on Monday,if everything you and others are saying is true,then there will be very little support for the cleaners.


  • #24
    bluess99
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭bluess99


    dlnv27 wrote: »
    . As I said in my previous post I have not seen any vehicle or person stopped from entering the hospital......Regarding the car parked on the footpath, I have to say I have seen that and I totally agree with their opinion.

    I had an appointment in UHW onTuesday morning, didn't know the strike was on till I got to the roundabout. Protesters stepped out in front of the car ahead of me, making them brake suddenly, causing me to stop and the cars behind to stop blocking the yellow box and holding up all the traffic. When the car in front moved and I went to pass at least six women jumped out on the road blocking me. Two women banged the bonnet on my car and pointed to the signs they were carrying. I was considering not passing the picket, but with the aggression shown I have no sympathy for them. And again on the way out two cars parked half on footpath half on the road blocking traffic making two people on crutches and one in a wheelchair entering the hospital by having to use the road with a bus right behind them.

    In my opinion there are ways to make a statement but the carry on I saw is not and it lost any support I had for them.


  • #25
    Motivator
    Registered Users Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭Motivator


    dlnv27 wrote: »
    I would disagree with azimuth17 post. We are picketing all gates into the hospital not to stop people or deliveries. As I said in my previous post I have not seen any vehicle or person stopped from entering the hospital. Regarding barraseaclaid post. The women cleaners are employed to clean and the men are employed to empty the bins. Momentum support have employed women on lower rates of pay and expect them to clean and also empty the bins. Regarding the staff on the evening shift I work days so I could not comment on that. If barraseaclaid is so upset about that they should contact the Momentum support office and let them know what's going on. Regarding the car parked on the footpath, I have to say I have seen that and I totally agree with their opinion.

    Funnily enough I heard this morning that a brick was thrown at a car/van out there the other day. Sack all of them, wasters.


  • #26
    debok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 814 ✭✭✭debok


    dlnv27 wrote: »
    I am one of the people on the picket line. I have done duty on all 4 entrances to the UHW. No has been stopped entering the hospital. Green Star have been passing collecting the waste compactors. All suppliers to the catering and all courier deliveries to other parts of the hospital have driven passed pickets with no problems. I have to say the cleaner bashing is really starting to kick in. We just want to do our job but when you have Momentum support ignoring the TUPE agreement seemingly with the full support of senior hospital management, we have no other option.

    Nothing against ye striking but why are public service workers employed by the HSE like porters maintenance etc out picketing an issue against a private company. Ye didn't give a flying fack about the nurses and passed in by them.The nurses were on strike nobody was made to feel like they couldn't pass picket. The attitude and dirty looks have turned a lot of people against you even if your issues are genuine.


  • #27
    notfromhere
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭notfromhere


    Oh i forgot to say, that there are calling people scabs when they pass the picket line.Some of the people that pass have to go into work they can't afford to lose a days pay.scabs is such a horrible dirty word they should be ashamed of themselves.


  • #28
    mooseknunkle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭mooseknunkle


    debok wrote: »
    Nothing against ye striking but why are public service workers employed by the HSE like porters maintenance etc out picketing an issue against a private company. Ye didn't give a flying fack about the nurses and passed in by them.The nurses were on strike nobody was made to feel like they couldn't pass picket. The attitude and dirty looks have turned a lot of people against you even if your issues are genuine.

    If the porters maintenance etc are Unite members then they have to stand in solidarity with their fellow union members regardless if they are public service or private employees.


  • #29
    dlnv27
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭dlnv27


    Damien tiernan has been covering this issue nearly every morning this week. If all this threatening behaviour and damaging of cars was happening do you not think the phone to WLR would be hopping.


  • #30
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,971 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    hardybuck wrote: »
    I have to say that I was appalled by the hygiene standards in WRH when visiting a family member recently.

    It felt like everything had a layer of dirt on it. My sister nearly cried when she saw the state of the toilets on the wards.

    Got said family member out of WRH and into another hospital and the difference was huge. Toilet sealed and covered for new patients and everything spotless.

    It's well known that the standard of hygiene is abysmal in WRH and I don't think people have much sympathy. Know someone who's child was in there years back and they went home and brought in their own cleaning equipment to clean the room, it was that bad. This lady is Italian and said she had never seen anything so bad.
    My own experiences over the years. One young woman I'd say about 20 or so spent the hour while I was waiting stopping other cleaners and telling them how she was getting off early. Any time a doctor or nurse appeared she scuttled back to work for as long as she could be seen. As soon as they turned the corner she was back looking for staff to talk to.
    A+E late one night young woman came in a twisted ankle, put her foot on the edge of the bench ( just the 2 of us waiting) and the cleaner just came over and pulled the bench from under her foot letting it slap off the ground. There was sweet wrappers and some papers on the floor and to make it worse she left most of the dirt there before moving off.
    I've only ever seen one clear there with her head down and was meticulous cleaning one of the surgical wards.


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  • #31
    Royal Legend
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭Royal Legend


    Have to say I am totally disgusted with some of the comments on this particular thread. I can't speak for all the cleaners, only for the ones i know, but the level of nastiness on here is appalling, i can understand why they stand up for themselves when people on here treat them like dirt on the bottom of their shoes. There is one particular poster on here making some wild allegations in relation to intimidation and calling people evil and wanting them all sacked. There is a serious level of keyboard warrior on this thread, one with an agenda and another who seems to be a newbie.

    First of all they do not earn €13 + per hour, they earn €10.80 + a site rate of €1.49 = 12.29/hr. Most are part time workers so are not working 39 hours per week either. Momentum since they won the contract have been spoiling for a fight. they have brought in people from up the country on minimum wage and are only willing to pay this rate. would any of you that are so high and mighty in your opinion of the lower working class accept minimum wage to clean in the hospital? Some of these people are single mothers and rely on this job for an income, so do you think they are taking this action lightly. P.S We can all find fault in anything we want to, there are plenty of people who do very little and get paid a hell of a lot more in the hospital, some of your time would be more well spent highlighting these people rather than the easy target of the lower working class.

    In relation to the porters and the kitchen staff, they came out in support yesterday, but the HSE has taken out an injunction against them and is threatening to sack them if they join the industrial action. They are having a meeting about this on Monday. Whatever decision they make will be personal and with the threat of the sack hanging over them, not a nice or an easy decision to make.

    A relation of mine has been on the picket all week, in the area where they work none of the staff have any issue with cleanliness of the area etc, in fact this person is held in high regard by the consultants, nurses and doctors in their area and also did not along with a lot of their colleagues pass the picket by the Nurses in their action... There has been no throwing of stones or rocks at cars, no spitting at people, no blocking of cars entering or leaving, no intimidation, that is pure and utter fabrication.

    As someone pointed out earlier, if there was this type of aggression then surely someone would have brought it up on Damien Tiernans radio program? Also if its true then someone should ask the Garda, who by the way are passing by the hospital on a regular basis, to see has anyone reported this so called intimidation. Nobody on the picket has heard people being called scabs, nobody has blocked wheelchair access, nobody has blocked any service traffic. it is a peaceful picket. If staff are so intimidated then how is it that staff from inside the hospital are bringing out tea and sandwiches to the ladies on the picket all week?

    What gets me is one, there seems to be a deliberate campaign either by Momentum or certain parties in the hospital to sully the name of the cleaners, some of it is going on here with people calling local people scum and evil. Secondly, it also appears that certain people on here think cleaners are second class citizens, like i stated earlier, maybe you should try their job for a week and see what you think.

    By the way, Momentum have been taking on this so called auxillary staff with no Garda vetting which is paramount in relation to people working in the hospital. won't go into details of that here only to say some local characters with history are part of this auxillary staff and no way could one of them in particular pass any kind of Garda vetting! Also not so sure where people think the hospital is cleaner all of a sudden seeing as some of it is on lock down with the vomiting bug, so no traffic internally plus i have personally seen bags of "mixed" and "clinical" waste thrown all together in a corridor in the hospital beside a patient on a trolley. will post photo later if someone wants clarity.


    What should be looked into is how Momentum ended up with the contract and maybe have a look at their history in other hospitals and maybe also have a deep look at the person who is the common link between them, this and previous Momentum contracts, the background to what is going on here is not as straightforward as some people may think.


  • #32
    azimuth17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,073 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    Royal Legend wrote: »



    In relation to the porters and the kitchen staff, they came out in support yesterday, but the HSE has taken out an injunction against them and is threatening to sack them if they join the industrial action. They are having a meeting about this on Monday. Whatever decision they make will be personal and with the threat of the sack hanging over them, not a nice or an easy decision to make.
    I can't speak for other people except that my experience of passing the picket to collect someone was daunting. Women walking in front of the car, shouting and waving red flags across the windscreen. A simple picket at the main entrance would be enough to draw attention to the cleaner's situation, but all entrances are picketed although I only know two entrances. This is intimidating and obviously meant to pressurise other staff who must pass picket and this has led to the HSE injunction. The people on picket seem to have forgotten that this is the largest public health facility in the south east at a time of a possible deadly pandemic. This is guaranteed to destroy sympathy for the cause and the striking workers, but not unexpected from UNITE in my experience. I don't agree with categorising any workers group as scum or as lower working class or what ever in a difficult situation like this, it is gratuitously offensive.


  • #33
    Gaspode
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,037 CMod ✭✭✭✭Gaspode


    Referringto other humans as evil scum or any other name-calling is not tolerated. Any more will result in insta-ban, consider this a final warning


  • #34
    Royal Legend
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭Royal Legend


    azimuth17 wrote: »
    I can't speak for other people except that my experience of passing the picket to collect someone was daunting. Women walking in front of the car, shouting and waving red flags across the windscreen. A simple picket at the main entrance would be enough to draw attention to the cleaner's situation, but all entrances are picketed although I only know two entrances. This is intimidating and obviously meant to pressurise other staff who must pass picket and this has led to the HSE injunction. The people on picket seem to have forgotten that this is the largest public health facility in the south east at a time of a possible deadly pandemic. This is guaranteed to destroy sympathy for the cause and the striking workers, but not unexpected from UNITE in my experience. I don't agree with categorising any workers group as scum or as lower working class or what ever in a difficult situation like this, it is gratuitously offensive.

    No real knowledge of UNITE, i have never been in a union and see them as an issue in some places especially multinationals, but also am aware that they can be good where workers are being bullied or treated poorly.
    From what i can see, Momentum are intent in getting rid of any cleaners in a trade union, they are been looking for a fight since they won the hospital contract. In every walk of life there are good and bad, sorry to hear you felt intimidated last week. My relation has seen no issues on the picket.
    When the nurses were out my family connection would not pass the picket, did they feel intimidated? i think they did, because they would have felt bad crossing any kind of picket, so is feeling bad about crossing a picket intimidation? I know from my contact that most have no issue with workers in the hospital crossing the picket, they know some are reliant on a wage and cannot afford to not go into work.#
    The issue is with Momentum and their treatment of the cleaners and the two tier system of the new staff they are bringing in. Again, they have nothing against the new staff, but believe that they should be on the same wage as they are. Is this not a similar issue to the wages of say a new qualified teacher and an existing one, being disproportionate which is an ongoing argument in that area?
    P.S the lifting of the bags issue IMO has been badly handled by UNITE, the bags are heavy and other staff, mainly men have been taking them away in the past. its not as straightforward as some seem to portray it, as a man would you ask your wife or mother to lift a heavy load of any kind?


  • #35
    notfromhere
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭notfromhere


    There must be a different picket on in Waterford. People were being spat at, footpaths were being blocked.people were stoped from receiving appointments.other staff have being abused.Some cleaners them can't even look after themselves, let alone clean a ward.Now there are only a small few of them that are doing this.By far most of the cleaners are decent hard working.But by god there are a few of them that ruin it for other people.


  • #36
    Wanderer2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,742 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    Motivator wrote: »
    I was in the hospital this afternoon and on the way in I passed an angry group of people protesting about their pay. I understand these people are meant to be the cleaners in the hospital? My word, some of these people look as if they can’t clean themselves never mind a public hospital. What exactly are they complaining about? I was speaking to a hospital employee who said it got very heated because someone had said to the group that if they did a proper job cleaning then they’d get a proper wage.

    Wow, you made a complete and utter sweeping judgment about a group of workers based 100% on how they appeared during a protest? And you have amazing insight into the facts and what is behind their anger, that too also based on "I was speaking to a hospital employee", I mean, never let the facts get in the way of a statement eh? To add insult to injury, you make a personal comment about their appearance too. You are wasted doing whatever it is you do, OP, you should be in the Labour Court making judgments on employment law.

    Did you maybe stop to think that you don't have a fcuking clue what you are talking about?


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  • #37
    Royal Legend
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭Royal Legend


    notfromhere wrote: »
    There must be a different picket on in Waterford. People were being spat at, footpaths were being blocked.people were stoped from receiving appointments.other staff have being abused.Some cleaners them can't even look after themselves, let alone clean a ward.Now there are only a small few of them that are doing this.By far most of the cleaners are decent hard working.But by god there are a few of them that ruin it for other people.

    Complete BS, someone being spat at is a criminal offence, if this happened it should be reported to the Garda, that it has not says to me that this is a lie. Did it happen to you? Do you know who it happened to or is it just something you heard from a mate? Very similar type of comment to the ones earlier about rocks being thrown etc.


  • #38
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,971 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    No affiliation with the hospital or cleaners.


  • #39
    Royal Legend
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭Royal Legend


    barraseaclaid wrote: »
    From what I can see (and you can take it or leave it): the workers who transferred over from ISS to momentum are upset because they are now being held to account over their existing work practices which to put it bluntly, are not up to scratch!
    Some personal observations (as a long term hospital employee, obviously don't want to give too much identifying information)
    - Female cleaning staff in certain areas of the hospital not empting domestic bins/waste stating that "that is man's work"
    - Staff on a four hour shift (4.30pm to 8.30pm approx) standing around until they can gain access to office areas at 5pm (ISS tried to change the shift times to match office hours but there were IR issues around this)
    -Same staff on shift above on tea break for up to 30min (no entitlement to same based on length of shift, but just enough time to watch their nightly dose of Corrie before heading home)

    - during washing of floors staff washing around desk chairs and not moving them to wash underneath, generally doing the bare minimum to ensure the supervisor doesn't cotton on)

    My personal highlight....
    During one of the recent "switch it off" campaigns to reduce the hospital's energy impact I asked the cleaner if they could switch off the lights on the way out of a room after cleaning it. They refused as they are not paid to do it!!!!

    During the strike momentum have drafted in auxillary staff to cover and I hate to say it but where I work has never been cleaner, floors washed, countertops wiped down, glass on doors cleaned, door handles, mirrors surfaces all cleaned, compared with the quick sweep and mop of the usual crowd.

    And as far as the actions of the strikers themselves...they should be ashamed of their carry on. When the nurses were out they did it in a dignified and peaceful manner.

    These guys have so far:
    Blocked the footpath for wheelchair users at the main entrance by parking a car on the footpath at the zebra crossing
    Stopped antenatal patients from driving through the picket to get to their appointments
    Blocked vans delivering blood to the hospital from getting through until security were called to escort.

    Whatever level of understanding I had for these guys by means of a peaceful picket has been eroded by these actions.

    Hate to tell you, someone has figured out who you are :cool:

    Here is an interesting post of yours from a month ago, my personal highlight

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112382877

    Absolute classic. So, someone that either cannot or does not even want to clean their own house, comments on people who have to clean for a living, go figure.
    Are you too busy to be able to clean your own house or do you just like the idea of looking superior or maybe fitting in with your friends by having hired help?
    Or maybe you are one of the many overpaid people employed by the HSE to walk around the hospital with a clipboard looking important, but actually doing sweet FA.
    Must be great to look down on the lower class masses from your ivory tower.


  • #40
    Motivator
    Registered Users Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭Motivator


    Royal Legend wrote: »
    as a man would you ask your wife or mother to lift a heavy load of any kind?

    I’d be disappointed if they’re receiving a wage for cleaning and they refuse to clean.


  • #41
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,971 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    Motivator wrote: »
    I’d be disappointed if they’re receiving a wage for cleaning and they refuse to clean.
    Every company works that way if someone isn't doing the job they were hired to do they get fired.


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  • #42
    Royal Legend
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭Royal Legend


    spookwoman wrote: »
    No affiliation with the hospital or cleaners.
    spookwoman wrote: »
    Every company works that way if someone isn't doing the job they were hired to do they get fired.

    And you also do not know what you are talking about.
    The cleaners are not contracted to lift the heavy bags, so you cannot fire someone for asking them to do something that is not in their contract, it might sound petty, but you need to actually go in to the hospital and look at the bags in question, other than that you are just another person with a misinformed opinion.


  • #43
    debok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 814 ✭✭✭debok


    Royal Legend wrote: »
    Hate to tell you, someone has figured out who you are :cool:

    Here is an interesting post of yours from a month ago, my personal highlight

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112382877

    Absolute classic. So, someone that either cannot or does not even want to clean their own house, comments on people who have to clean for a living, go figure.
    Are you too busy to be able to clean your own house or do you just like the idea of looking superior or maybe fitting in with your friends by having hired help?
    Or maybe you are one of the many overpaid people employed by the HSE to walk around the hospital with a clipboard looking important, but actually doing sweet FA.
    Must be great to look down on the lower class masses from your ivory tower.

    By threatening the posters anonymity your kinda giving people ammunition to say the strikers are being a bit bullish in there actions.


  • #44
    Motivator
    Registered Users Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭Motivator


    Royal Legend wrote: »
    And you also do not know what you are talking about.
    The cleaners are not contracted to lift the heavy bags, so you cannot fire someone for asking them to do something that is not in their contract, it might sound petty, but you need to actually go in to the hospital and look at the bags in question, other than that you are just another person with a misinformed opinion.

    So you’re trying to tell me that it’s in individual contracts, signed by female only cleaning staff, that they don’t have to empty bins? Really? That’s what you’re saying?


  • #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The menacing eyes you get off them makes me sick. Ive been visiting my dad for the last 3 weeks and they stare at you as if you are breaking a picket line scabbing. The floor outside the ward he is in is filthy since I've been visiting. The actual fuc*ing neck, like.


  • #46
    Crusty Blaa
    Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭Crusty Blaa


    Royal Legend wrote: »
    Hate to tell you, someone has figured out who you are :cool:

    Here is an interesting post of yours from a month ago, my personal highlight

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112382877

    Absolute classic. So, someone that either cannot or does not even want to clean their own house, comments on people who have to clean for a living, go figure.
    Are you too busy to be able to clean your own house or do you just like the idea of looking superior or maybe fitting in with your friends by having hired help?
    Or maybe you are one of the many overpaid people employed by the HSE to walk around the hospital with a clipboard looking important, but actually doing sweet FA.
    Must be great to look down on the lower class masses from your ivory tower.

    Who's the keyboard warrior now.


  • #47
    Royal Legend
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭Royal Legend


    debok wrote: »
    By threatening the posters anonymity your kinda giving giving people ammunition to say the strikers are being a bit bullish in there actions.

    Not threatening anyone and I am not one of the strikers either, just think that it is a bit rich (excuse the pun) that someone who works in the hospital, earning a hell of a lot more than €12.29/hour, cannot or will not clean their own house, is able to ridicule people who clean for a living.
    There are a hell of a lot of decent people who clean out in that hospital, there is an element in any environment, whether that be the hospital, a factory or any other place of work, but certain posters on here seem to like painting everyone with the same brush and there is definitely people on here that look down on cleaners as an underclass, which i find disgusting. Like i posted earlier, maybe they should try it themselves to see what is involved or maybe live off the wages they earn.


  • #48
    Motivator
    Registered Users Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭Motivator


    Royal Legend wrote: »
    Hate to tell you, someone has figured out who you are :cool:

    Here is an interesting post of yours from a month ago, my personal highlight

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112382877

    Absolute classic. So, someone that either cannot or does not even want to clean their own house, comments on people who have to clean for a living, go figure.
    Are you too busy to be able to clean your own house or do you just like the idea of looking superior or maybe fitting in with your friends by having hired help?
    Or maybe you are one of the many overpaid people employed by the HSE to walk around the hospital with a clipboard looking important, but actually doing sweet FA.
    Must be great to look down on the lower class masses from your ivory tower.

    Spoken like a true floor cleaner.


  • #49
    Royal Legend
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭Royal Legend


    Crusty Blaa wrote: »
    Who's the keyboard warrior now.

    If that is part of what a keyboard warrior is, then guilty as charged.

    Especially if it helps highlighting the pure hypocrisy of some of the posters on here that have ridiculed a section of our community here in Waterford.


  • #50
    Crusty Blaa
    Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭Crusty Blaa


    Royal Legend wrote: »
    If that is part of what a keyboard warrior is, then guilty as charged.

    Especially if it helps highlighting the pure hypocrisy of some of the posters on here that have ridiculed a section of our community here in Waterford.

    I don't intend to paint all the strikers with the same brush but there have been enough indications that there are some on the picket who have been out of line in their actions towards patients and other hospital staff. As I mentioned already, my family member was made feel very uncomfortable walking into work the other day with some nasty comments said in passing. That's not right but I suppose you'll think she was lying.


  • #51
    Micky Bluenips
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Micky Bluenips


    Royal Legend wrote: »
    If that is part of what a keyboard warrior is, then guilty as charged.

    Especially if it helps highlighting the pure hypocrisy of some of the posters on here that have ridiculed a section of our community here in Waterford.

    Posters are going way over the line and some of the comments have been disgraceful because I'm sure must really haven't a clue what there talking about. But that's what message boards are all about. Think about it there's only 7 or 8 posters being nasty, in the real world that's not a whole lot and there only being nasty because there anonymous . We all do it at some stage . Just laugh it off but dont say someone knows who you are because I'd say them nasty posters are scouring through your old messages like you did to that other lad.


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