CH or LIM bull

Who2 · 26-02-2020 9:27pm

john mayo 10 wrote: »

Anyone know much about Tomchoice jet. Bull for sale by him out of a TVR dam. Calfing difficulty is high for heifers but reliability is low. He looks a fine bull

You’d have a serious bull for shape and style but I wouldn’t be chancing him on heifers with tvr in him. I’ve a jet bull ( first season) here out of an adx cow with rocky there too so I’m expecting a little hardship. What’s his calving difficulty like? Mines at 7% cows 12.5% heifers.

john mayo 10 · 26-02-2020 9:45pm

Who2 wrote: »

You’d have a serious bull for shape and style but I wouldn’t be chancing him on heifers with tvr in him. I’ve a jet bull ( first season) here out of an adx cow with rocky there too so I’m expecting a little hardship. What’s his calving difficulty like? Mines at 7% cows 12.5% heifers.

13.3 for heifers. 7.3 for cows. Reliability is 30 %.
Hes a serious looking bull. Great shape. I'm just worried about the heifers. One of them is an eby heifer out of a ch/sim x cow. The other 2 are sh/he x heifers

tanko · 26-02-2020 10:18pm

Cows might be doing well to calve that bull. I wouldn't be letting him near any heifers.
Can you Ai your heifers and use a bull on the cows?
If i was in your position i'd be looking for a bull with easier calving bloodlines as you're away at work and your father is at home looking after the cows.

john mayo 10 · 26-02-2020 10:51pm

I have no way of keeping the heifers separate from the cows as all our land is in one block. I'm going to steer clear of that jet bull. Will look to pick up.an easy calving bull

squinn2912 · 26-02-2020 10:54pm

john mayo 10 wrote: »

I have no way of keeping the heifers separate from the cows as all our land is in one block. I'm going to steer clear of that jet bull. Will look to pick up.an easy calving bull

You’ll get it very tight to get a ch bull that will do heifers too. What age/size are they? Could you keep bull or heifers about a yard until you’ve ai done? Is there a neighbour with an easy calving bull you could make an arrangement with and throw the heifers in with him for 6 weeks? Bound to be a way

john mayo 10 · 26-02-2020 11:06pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

You’ll get it very tight to get a ch bull that will do heifers too. What age/size are they? Could you keep bull or heifers about a yard until you’ve ai done? Is there a neighbour with an easy calving bull you could make an arrangement with and throw the heifers in with him for 6 weeks? Bound to be a way

Meant to say an easy calfing limousine bull and run him with them all

squinn2912 · 26-02-2020 11:36pm

john mayo 10 wrote: »

Meant to say an easy calfing limousine bull and run him with them all

Sorry maybe I picked you up wrong. I think that’s the only choice.
Could you maybe keep the lim bull in a shed for a month or 6 weeks and put cows on a programme, try to get them with ai and bull sweep behind?

john mayo 10 · 27-02-2020 9:32pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

Sorry maybe I picked you up wrong. I think that’s the only choice.
Could you maybe keep the lim bull in a shed for a month or 6 weeks and put cows on a programme, try to get them with ai and bull sweep behind?

I could do but it's just easier to run a bull with them all

squinn2912 · 27-02-2020 11:16pm

john mayo 10 wrote: »

I could do but it's just easier to run a bull with them all

Then I say go easy calving all rounder bull. 50 quid less a calf takes 16-18 calves if you lose one due to too hard a calver. If you need to bust yourself on a jack for 12 of those that’s more cost.

Bass Reeves · 27-02-2020 11:46pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

Then I say go easy calving all rounder bull. 50 quid less a calf takes 16-18 calves if you lose one due to too hard a calver. If you need to bust yourself on a jack for 12 of those that’s more cost.

When you work full time you have to make concessions for that. You have to factor in the calving difficulty and the effect on your system.

When you work and farm it simplifie the system as much as possible. You do not want to be up jacking calves or be having to come home at lunch time checking cows

Do you finish your own stock Mayo

squinn2912 · 28-02-2020 12:02am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

When you work full time you have to make concessions for that. You have to factor in the calving difficulty and the effect on your system.

When you work and farm it simplifie the system as much as possible. You do not want to be up jacking calves or be having to come home at lunch time checking cows

Do you finish your own stock Mayo

Yes that’s a similar reiteration of my point. It was crossing my mind to suggest finishing so that your hit in the mart is minimised.

john mayo 10 · 28-02-2020 1:13am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

When you work full time you have to make concessions for that. You have to factor in the calving difficulty and the effect on your system.

When you work and farm it simplifie the system as much as possible. You do not want to be up jacking calves or be having to come home at lunch time checking cows

Do you finish your own stock Mayo

We dont finish stock here. Sell most of the weanling in oct/ nov. Any heifers kept are bulled the following spring and have them calving down at 24 months approx

john mayo 10 · 29-02-2020 11:47am

Was chatting to the dept of agri yesterday. I'm going to have to buy a genotyped bull and not buy one and genotype myself. The deadline for genotype samples is march 11th. Too short a time frame

older by the day · 29-02-2020 2:59pm

john mayo 10 wrote: »

Was chatting to the dept of agri yesterday. I'm going to have to buy a genotyped bull and not buy one and genotype myself. The deadline for genotype samples is march 11th. Too short a time frame

Surely there is a limousine bull breeder up there who knows his breeding since cows first walked. I used to buy limousine bulls from a guy who knew how many hairs the calfs would have. Get a two year old easy calving limousine. And pay enough to a proper breeder. Don't be borrowing or hiring and bringing in disease. A good old bull will bring back most of his price when you sell him again

funkey_monkey · 29-02-2020 3:55pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

The man to whom I referred got his bull off this man https://www.donedeal.co.uk/beefcattle-for-sale/stabiliser-cattle/6821335
He’s been advertising on dd for a good number of years. I agree they’d suit that job meant to be great lively calves with medium sized cows. Not all that much to look at though

Billy O'Kane - was beef farmer of the year in 2014.
https://www.fwi.co.uk/events/awards/farmers-weekly-beef-farmer-of-the-year-2014-billy-o-kane

For someone working PT or similar these are a good option to consider. They birth a small calf which are up and going quickly. Assisted calving is rare as the birth weight is one of the factors they closely regulate in the breed development.

I think there is a few on here with Stabilisers.

Limestone Cowboy · 29-02-2020 5:40pm

older by the day wrote: »

Surely there is a limousine bull breeder up there who knows his breeding since cows first walked. I used to buy limousine bulls from a guy who knew how many hairs the calfs would have. Get a two year old easy calving limousine. And pay enough to a proper breeder. Don't be borrowing or hiring and bringing in disease. A good old bull will bring back most of his price when you sell him again

Country is full of bulls. Could come across a nice 5-6 year old bull aswell for a bit along with cull price and you'd be able to see calves out of him. Might be a better buy than a younger one.

john mayo 10 · 29-02-2020 5:49pm

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Country is full of bulls. Could come across a nice 5-6 year old bull aswell for a bit along with cull price and you'd be able to see calves out of him. Might be a better buy than a younger one.

There is a few I enquired about. Some guys asking mental money. 3000 plus. I dont need one for another month but if the right one pops up I will go for him. Enquired about one locally last night. He was up for sale with a month. Not even registered or genotyped.

tanko · 29-02-2020 5:59pm

There's 537 Limousin Bulls for sale on the "stock bull finder" on ICBF.com at the moment. Could be worth a look.

john mayo 10 · 29-02-2020 6:03pm

tanko wrote: »

There's 537 Limousin Bulls for sale on the "stock bull finder" on ICBF.com at the moment. Could be worth a look.

Cheers. Will take a look

Hard Knocks · 29-02-2020 6:22pm

john mayo 10 wrote: »

There is a few I enquired about. Some guys asking mental money. 3000 plus. I dont need one for another month but if the right one pops up I will go for him. Enquired about one locally last night. He was up for sale with a month. Not even registered or genotyped.

It’d be good to have the bull 2-4 weeks before you let hem out with the cows

01-03-2020 1:47am

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Billy O'Kane - was beef farmer of the year in 2014.
https://www.fwi.co.uk/events/awards/farmers-weekly-beef-farmer-of-the-year-2014-billy-o-kane

For someone working PT or similar these are a good option to consider. They birth a small calf which are up and going quickly. Assisted calving is rare as the birth weight is one of the factors they closely regulate in the breed development.

I think there is a few on here with Stabilisers.

What kind of money for a two year old stabiliser?

funkey_monkey · 01-03-2020 1:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What kind of money for a two year old stabiliser?

Depends on whether you buy it from an approved breeder (Multiplier) or just off someone with a bull.

The pricing ranges depending on the cross which is scaled from F1 to F5. the price will be dependent on which of these it is.
I think the multipliers are given a price range at the start of each season for each cross - although those outside of the Multipliers price themselves.

                          FEMALES         MALES
FIRST CROSS:     F1       CROSS (1/2)     1ST CROSS
SECOND CROSS:    F2       CROSS (3/4)     2ND CROSS
THIRD CROSS:     F3 (GD)  PURE (7/8)      3RD CROSS
FOURTH CROSS:    F4 (D)   PURE (15/16)    4TH CROSS
FIFTH CROSS:     F5       PURE (16/16)    PURE

Website: https://www.bigbeef.co.uk/

More info: https://www.bigbeef.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Stabiliser-Pedigree-Standards.pdf

I've honestly no idea as to the cost of one. I think grassroot_1 on here has/had them - maybe they can chip in.

On SellMyLivestock there is currently 20 pure (F5) breeding heifers in England looking £1150 per head. (Bear in mind these are the pure ones).
There is also someone selling 12 Stabiliser X and is looking £640 - £750. I'd assume these were F1, but I'm not up to speed on them all.
The main sellers are on DoneDeal - albeit mostly in NI. There is only one Multiplier listed on the Big Beef website for Ireland (Hayden in Tipp) but I've no idea how he advertises.

Not very useful post, but just be aware if they start talking about F1, F2, etc what they are referring to.

DukeCaboom · 01-03-2020 1:20pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »
Depends on whether you buy it from an approved breeder (Multiplier) or just off someone with a bull.

The pricing ranges depending on the cross which is scaled from F1 to F5. the price will be dependent on which of these it is.
I think the multipliers are given a price range at the start of each season for each cross - although those outside of the Multipliers price themselves.
                          FEMALES         MALES
FIRST CROSS:     F1       CROSS (1/2)     1ST CROSS
SECOND CROSS:    F2       CROSS (3/4)     2ND CROSS
THIRD CROSS:     F3 (GD)  PURE (7/8)      3RD CROSS
FOURTH CROSS:    F4 (D)   PURE (15/16)    4TH CROSS
FIFTH CROSS:     F5       PURE (16/16)    PURE
Website: https://www.bigbeef.co.uk/

More info: https://www.bigbeef.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Stabiliser-Pedigree-Standards.pdf

I've honestly no idea as to the cost of one. I think grassroot_1 on here has/had them - maybe they can chip in.

On SellMyLivestock there is currently 20 pure (F5) breeding heifers in England looking £1150 per head. (Bear in mind these are the pure ones).
There is also someone selling 12 Stabiliser X and is looking £640 - £750. I'd assume these were F1, but I'm not up to speed on them all.
The main sellers are on DoneDeal - albeit mostly in NI. There is only one Multiplier listed on the Big Beef website for Ireland (Hayden in Tipp) but I've no idea how he advertises.

Not very useful post, but just be aware if they start talking about F1, F2, etc what they are referring to.

I see Robin talbot has a few stabiliser bulls now. You can see them on his twitter @autumncalver

john mayo 10 · 03-03-2020 3:43am

Going to take a look at a loosebeare fantastic bull later in the week. Anyone know much about him. Calfing difficulty is low

patsy_mccabe · 03-03-2020 9:20am

john mayo 10 wrote: »

Going to take a look at a loosebeare fantastic bull later in the week. Anyone know much about him. Calfing difficulty is low

S1497 - LOOSEBEARE FANTASTIC
He's not that easy calving, bottom 20% for lims. He'd be similar to ADX. Just to give you an idea.
Any pedigree stock I saw by him were good types. I would have liked to try him here on a few but straws are gone now, I think.

Dozer1 · 03-03-2020 11:02am

there's a mixed bull sale in Ennis next Monday, might be worth a look,
catalogue below, not alot of milk in most of the bulls.
In the market myself as a LM i purchased in Nov last year has hurt is back and is of no use....

http://www.claremarts.ie/pedigree-registered-bull-sales-in-ennis-mart/

john mayo 10 · 03-03-2020 2:39pm

These are the calfing difficulty figures for the bull that's for sale. How accurate they are for heifers I dont know.

Dunedin · 04-03-2020 10:27pm

Have always been a limo man here and breed own replacements from limo x cows to limo bull.

Thinking of getting Simmental bull this year as good cross for breeding replacements.

Lady Haywire · 04-03-2020 10:38pm

Just see the advertising next month for the Easter sale of bulls in Carrigallen if anyone is still looking then. Might be more working class bulls than the pampered lads.

Reggiehammond · 04-03-2020 10:57pm

Dunedin wrote: »

Have always been a limo man here and breed own replacements from limo x cows to limo bull.

Thinking of getting Simmental bull this year as good cross for breeding replacements.

Last year I did some contract weighing for BEEP. The best calves I weighed were Simmental out of Hereford cows.

CH or LIM bull

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