New Dail / New Taoiseach

FrancieBrady · 23-02-2020 11:50AM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

They signed up to it being so did they not?

Where was that?

They certainly signed up to respecting the decision of a majority to see it as another country as long as that majority accepted their rights to see themselves as part of Ireland.

ThunbergsAreGo · 23-02-2020 11:56AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ask a member of SF if they see Newry as 'another country'.

So why not Belfast?

Bishop of hope · 23-02-2020 12:02PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where was that?

They certainly signed up to respecting the decision of a majority to see it as another country as long as that majority accepted their rights to see themselves as part of Ireland.

That is the ideal that it is another country until a majority deem it otherwise?

FrancieBrady · 23-02-2020 12:03PM

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

So why not Belfast?

Email them?

You are aware, I take it, of how life operates along the border? Sometimes it is logistically sensible to pick somewhere in the south or the north and to ignore the border. It may just be that the hotel is logistically sensible for the people to go to.

Happens here everyday of the week. Football clubs in the north will come here to use a hotel etc etc.

It's all the one country when you are in the GAA for instance.

FrancieBrady · 23-02-2020 12:04PM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

That is the ideal that it is another country until a majority deem it otherwise?

Don't understand the question...go again?

Bishop of hope · 23-02-2020 12:09PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Don't understand the question...go again?

No, you understand the question alright, just can't frame the answer yet. But you will indubitably.

FrancieBrady · 23-02-2020 12:14PM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

No, you understand the question alright, just can't frame the answer yet. But you will indubitably.

I don't understand it actually. I presume it is to try and get me to say SF have sold out in some way?
Carry on, if that is what you believe. I couldn't be arsed trying to persuade you otherwise.
It is pitiful and sad that some need that affirmation.

Bishop of hope · 23-02-2020 12:21PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't understand it actually. I presume it is to try and get me to say SF have sold out in some way?
Carry on, if that is what you believe. I couldn't be arsed trying to persuade you otherwise.
It is pitiful and sad that some need that affirmation.

Isn't it, I'm a pitiful sad man I am. Forever and ever sitting on boards traipsing out the same ould ****e.

FrancieBrady · 23-02-2020 12:25PM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Isn't it, I'm a pitiful sad man I am. Forever and ever sitting on boards traipsing out the same ould ****e.

QED Bishop. QED. :rolleyes:

Umaro · 23-02-2020 12:25PM

Don't be so hard on yourself.

Bishop of hope · 23-02-2020 07:53PM

SF sit in parliament in Northern Ireland, they want a border referendun, they are even talking of a minister of state for Irish unity if the do get in to Govt.
All this is to me acceptance by them politically that at the minute that Northern Ireland is another country.
They have by agreeing to all of the above signed up to that line of thought.
Fair play to them.

terenc · 23-02-2020 08:56PM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

SF sit in parliament in Northern Ireland, they want a border referendun, they are even talking of a minister of state for Irish unity if the do get in to Govt.
All this is to me acceptance by them politically that at the minute that Northern Ireland is another country.
They have by agreeing to all of the above signed up to that line of thought.
Fair play to them.

With a nod and a wink from their handlers "dont f*ck with us we put you where you are", just remember how we handle child rapists and young criminals.
Fu*k the free state. Pass me the "cocaine" gERRY S gOD.

Scoondal · 23-02-2020 09:55PM

Will Ms. McDonald have her own security at the Rochestown Park Hotel tomorrow ? Will protestors be intimidated ?

beggars_bush · 23-02-2020 09:57PM

Scoondal wrote: »

Will Ms. McDonald have her own security at the Rochestown Park Hotel tomorrow ? Will protestors be intimidated ?

Intimidated by whom?

Scoondal · 23-02-2020 10:00PM

beggars_bush wrote: »

Intimidated by whom?

By her security personnel.

johnnyskeleton · 23-02-2020 10:11PM

terenc wrote: »

With a nod and a wink from their handlers "dont f*ck with us we put you where you are", just remember how we handle child rapists and young criminals.
Fu*k the free state. Pass me the "cocaine" gERRY S gOD.

Scoondal wrote: »

Will Ms. McDonald have her own security at the Rochestown Park Hotel tomorrow ? Will protestors be intimidated ?

Mod note:

Serious posts only please

johnnyskeleton · 23-02-2020 11:15PM

Mod note:

You two guys can take 24 hours off. Please read the chater and make serious contributions only

kah22 · 24-02-2020 01:33AM

Riddle me this. Suppose there was a referendum called on how TD’s were to be elected to the Dáil, how would you vote: Keep the present system OR A first pass the post system like they have in Great Britain ?

Kevin

IAmTheReign · 24-02-2020 09:46AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What's the problem with 'former members' of the IRA taking part in democratic politics? Did you miss the whole GFA thing?

First of all the article you posted only said the IRA are committed to the political path, it doesn't say the IRA no longer exists meaning they're not really 'former members' at all.

Secondly there is nothing democratic about the people in charge of a former paramilitary organisation running a political party from the shadows. If 'former members' of the IRA military council want to take part in politics they should stand for election. That would be democratic.

IAmTheReign · 24-02-2020 10:06AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'difficult' questions nobody wants to address.

The north is 'different' will be the answer, because it suits.

The North IS different, as a SF supporter like yourself well knows. The GFA requires SF, as the largest republican party, to enter government or Stormont can't sit. Claiming it's anyway comparable to the Dail is dishonest.

is_that_so · 24-02-2020 10:15AM

kah22 wrote: »

Riddle me this. Suppose there was a referendum called on how TD’s were to be elected to the Dáil, how would you vote: Keep the present system OR A first pass the post system like they have in Great Britain ?

Kevin

It was tried twice, once in 1959 and again in about 1968. It failed both times and would never pass now.

FrancieBrady · 24-02-2020 10:17AM

IAmTheReign wrote: »

The North IS different, as a SF supporter like yourself well knows. The GFA requires SF, as the largest republican party, to enter government or Stormont can't sit. Claiming it's anyway comparable to the Dail is dishonest.

I didn't claim it was the same as the Dáil. I was sending up FG and FF, pivoting when it suited them.

Sam Russell · 24-02-2020 12:16PM

is_that_so wrote: »

kah22 wrote: »

Riddle me this. Suppose there was a referendum called on how TD’s were to be elected to the Dáil, how would you vote: Keep the present system OR A first pass the post system like they have in Great Britain ?

Kevin

It was tried twice, once in 1959 and again in about 1968. It failed both times and would never pass now.

It was not a change to FPTP but a change to single seat constituencies. The proposal was put by FF who thought that it would guarantee them a perpetual majority. It was rejected for precisely that reason.

There never was an attempt to go back to FPTP.

If we were to have a change, I would propose that the last action by the outgoing Dail would be to elect the Ceann Comhairle who would be the sole TD during the dissolution of the Dail. He/She would required to be non-party, and could not subsequently join a political party (just as the President is non-party). He/She would also not represent any constituency, as is the case with Senators. Obviously, (s)he would retire after the following dissolution of the Dail if (s)he is not re-elected.

Further, any act by a Minister during the dissolution and up to the formation of the new Gov would have a sunset effect, in that such acts would be required to be affirmed by the incoming Ministers, and by the Cabinet as a whole.

However, there are more important things to be achieved.

LuckyLloyd · 24-02-2020 01:55PM

kah22 wrote: »

Riddle me this. Suppose there was a referendum called on how TD’s were to be elected to the Dáil, how would you vote: Keep the present system OR A first pass the post system like they have in Great Britain ?

Kevin

FPTP is a terrible anti democratic system that would hopefully be rejected by a vast majority of the electorate. Our system is the best there is.

is_that_so · 24-02-2020 02:19PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

It was not a change to FPTP but a change to single seat constituencies. The proposal was put by FF who thought that it would guarantee them a perpetual majority. It was rejected for precisely that reason.

There never was an attempt to go back to FPTP.

If we were to have a change, I would propose that the last action by the outgoing Dail would be to elect the Ceann Comhairle who would be the sole TD during the dissolution of the Dail. He/She would required to be non-party, and could not subsequently join a political party (just as the President is non-party). He/She would also not represent any constituency, as is the case with Senators. Obviously, (s)he would retire after the following dissolution of the Dail if (s)he is not re-elected.

Further, any act by a Minister during the dissolution and up to the formation of the new Gov would have a sunset effect, in that such acts would be required to be affirmed by the incoming Ministers, and by the Cabinet as a whole.

However, there are more important things to be achieved.

Pretty sure this is FPTP.

The Third Amendment of the Constitution Bill 1958 –
At present, members of Dáil Éireann are elected on a system of proportional representation for constituencies returning at least three members, each voter having a single transferable vote. It is proposed in the Bill to abolish the system of proportional representation and to adopt, instead, a system of single-member constituencies, each voter having a single non-transferable vote. It is also proposed in the Bill to set up a Commission for the determination and revision of the constituencies, instead of having this done by the Oireachtas, as at present.

And the second time, also FPTP

The Fourth Amendment of the Constitution Bill, 1968, proposes –
To substitute for the present system of voting at Dáil elections the "straight vote" system in single-member constituencies;

Sam Russell · 24-02-2020 02:33PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Pretty sure this is FPTP.

And the second time, also FPTP

You are correct, it is FPTP.

I have always assumed it was to create single seat constituencies, but it went further than I thought. No wonder it was rejected, as it was a bare faced power grab.

realdanbreen · 24-02-2020 03:09PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

FPTP is a terrible anti democratic system that would hopefully be rejected by a vast majority of the electorate. Our system is the best there is.

Judging by the results of the recent election I wouldn't be putting too much faith in the majority of the electorate!

Amirani · 24-02-2020 06:17PM

Many of the Sinn Fein supporters on Twitter appear to be quite supportive of FPTP. Apparently getting elected on the 4th count via transferable votes doesn't count as much as getting elected with first preferences.

Seems to be one of the default criticisms aimed at any non-SF politicians these days.

blanch152 · 24-02-2020 06:37PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

You are correct, it is FPTP.

I have always assumed it was to create single seat constituencies, but it went further than I thought. No wonder it was rejected, as it was a bare faced power grab.

There are other options, including a list system. There are also mixed systems, a combination of say, five-seater constituencies and a list system.

is_that_so · 24-02-2020 06:38PM

blanch152 wrote: »

There are other options, including a list system. There are also mixed systems, a combination of say, five-seater constituencies and a list system.

I'd be a fan of a list system as the theory is it makes TDs less beholden to parish pump politics.

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