New Dail / New Taoiseach

JamesM

Mother Ireland :eek: She was called, in all seriousness, just now on RTE Radio 1 :D:D

WomanSkirtFan8

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Cop out on who's behalf?
I already named the amount of groups that won't go in with SF apart from FF and FG.
Where's your Boyd Barretts, Murphy and Murphy and Ryan.
I'm no SF fan by any means, but if change is what's needed then they too have to step up.
We are on a difficult year I think with brexit, we need stable Govt and it can't be formed without at least two of the big three.
We will be back at the polls very soon even if a minority Govt is formed unless a big coalition happens!

Agreed. That's how I set up see it playing out now.

Stewball

Lockstep wrote: »

They had young candidates like Anniey Hoey in Meath East, Rebecca Moynihan in Dublin South Central and Liam Van Der Spek in Cavan/Monaghan.

None were elected though.

The Labour brand is too tainted. Alan Kelly isn't going to improve it - if anything he'll make it even worse.

Look at the Social Democrats candidate Holly Cairns in Cork.
She got elected with transfers from Sinn Fein - If she was running for Labour she wouldn't have gotten those transfers and would have been eliminated early.

The three Labour candidates you named were quiet impressive during the campaign I thought. If they were under a purple banner they probably would have performed better in the vote.

Johnboy1951

Yes, two of the 'big three' plus a few seats will be required for a stable government.
There is no will from either FF or FG to hook up with SF, so that just leaves the two.

The sooner they make some arrangement the better for the country.

ThewhiteJesus

realdanbreen wrote: »

Pity, because she came across so classy in the Dail yesterday!

Like Classi from southpark more like

gormdubhgorm

realdanbreen wrote: »

Pity, because she came across so classy in the Dail yesterday!

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Like Classi from southpark more like

I would say Mary Lou is more a cleasaí rather than any type of classy.

charlie14

Sam Russell wrote: »

There was a report on RTE radio today that Gerry Adams, along with other 'unelected' people were on SF's negotiating team.

I thought GA 'had gone away', but not so.

Peadar Tóibín made a few interesting points about appointed parliamentary assistants to SF TD`s in that context as far as I recall.

nigeldaniel

Is it possible all this helps SF and their agenda to stay in opposition and avoid the responsibility of government? The constant trickle of bad news about the sinners in the last few weeks makes me wonder.

feargale

nigeldaniel wrote: »

Is it possible all this helps SF and their agenda to stay in opposition and avoid the responsibility of government? The constant trickle of bad news about the sinners in the last few weeks makes me wonder.

Would you like to see SF taking over the Dept of Justice? Guess which files might be used to make the white smoke.
Their takeover of Defence would be interesting too. Would the two bodies calling themselves Óglaigh na h-Éireann have to amalgamate? And would our troops in the Middle East, who are supposed to be neutral, be flying Palestinian flags on their jeeps? After all, why not if those flags greeted Arlene Foster at the 2019 Ulster football final?
We had one bad experience in similar circumstances, when Cruise O'Brien, a man who was privy to cabinet confidences, joined a NI party that was anything but friendly towards the Irish state and Irish people. Are we about to see a repeat? Will some slightly constitutional people be shielded from state secrets? Some SF people have hived off to Continuity etc, including people who know a thing or two about Lyra McKee's murder. Are we sure there won't be more in the future, armed with knowledge of the inner workings of the Dublin government?
Ms. McDonald says the IRA doesn't exist now. Mr. Adams said: " they haven't gone away, you know." Would Ms. McDonald like to tell us when precisely did they go away?
The GFA conferred many benefits on certain people, including immunity from prosecution. It didn't impose an obligation on the rest of us to vote for them.

FrancieBrady

feargale wrote: »

Ms. McDonald says the IRA doesn't exist now. Mr. Adams said: " they haven't gone away, you know." Would Ms. McDonald like to tell us when precisely did they go away?

We have an independent body to monitor such things. We don't need McDonald to tell us.

The findings of that committee underpins who gets to govern in the north.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ira-firmly-committed-to-political-path-imc-reports-1.1199390

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We have an independent body to monitor such things. We don't need McDonald to tell us.

The findings of that committee underpins who gets to govern in the north.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ira-firmly-committed-to-political-path-imc-reports-1.1199390

Hang on a minute they only said the Army Council is no longer there and has disbanded it's terrorist structures and military recruitment.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ira-army-council-no-longer-operational-say-imc-376165.html

That does not mean that the former/current members of that council are not acting as advisers to SF. An unofficial SF working group/sub-committee

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/irishvoice/gerry-adams-ira

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KGedSguoQu0J:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/backgrounds-of-sinn-fein-negotiators-in-talks-process-1.136364+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

https://www.herald.ie/news/adams-joins-sinn-fein-talks-team-as-memo-warns-we-may-go-back-to-polls-38976383.html

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Hang on a minute they only said the Army Council is no longer there and has disbanded it's terrorist structures and military recruitment.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ira-army-council-no-longer-operational-say-imc-376165.html

That does not mean that the former/current members of that council are not acting as advisers to SF. An unofficial SF working group/sub-committee

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/irishvoice/gerry-adams-ira

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KGedSguoQu0J:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/backgrounds-of-sinn-fein-negotiators-in-talks-process-1.136364+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

https://www.herald.ie/news/adams-joins-sinn-fein-talks-team-as-memo-warns-we-may-go-back-to-polls-38976383.html

What's the problem with 'former members' of the IRA taking part in democratic politics? Did you miss the whole GFA thing?

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What's the problem with 'former members' of the IRA taking part in democratic politics? Did you miss the whole GFA thing?

No but is it not coincidental that former or current member of the IRA army council is leading the negotiations?

Yet on the other thread you are adamant that the IRA army council does not run SF!

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

No but is it not coincidental that former or current member of the IRA army council is leading the negotiations?

Yet on the other thread you are adamant that the IRA army council does not run SF!

WTF?

Co-incidental? What does that mean?

An Army COuncil did exist. People were on that council.

Like the IRA the Army Council no longer exists in an operational role.

The 'people' still exist though and they signed up to achieving their aims by exclusively peaceful means.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

WTF?

Co-incidental? What does that mean?

An Army COuncil did exist. People were on that council.

Like the IRA the Army Council no longer exists in an operational role.

The 'people' still exist though and they signed up to achieving their aims by exclusively peaceful means.

In a military operation role maybe. But it has not stopped the IRA army council acting as arbitrator for SF and advisers to SF. There is/was seven members on this council. Not hard for them to meet up for cup of tea and chat about SF strategy is it?

How do you think Mary Lou was anointed 'elected' leader of SF in 'the south'?
No leadership challenge, do you not think that was a bit odd? Decades of one leader then all of sudden, it is the Mary Lou and Michelle show.

sid waddell

Wouldn't it be better for the media to start investigating which unelected business figures are influencing FF and FG's policies and negotiating strategy rather than endless stories about people who used to be on the IRA Army Council? SF were the political wing of the IRA. Everybody knows that. Are people seriously saying they can't or shouldn't be allowed to take advice from people who were in the IRA?

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

In a military operation role maybe. But it has not stopped the IRA army council acting as arbitrator for SF and advisers to SF. There is/was seven members on this council. Not hard for them to meet up for cup of tea and chat about SF strategy is it?

How do you think Mary Lou was anointed 'elected' leader of SF in 'the south'?
No leadership challenge, do you not think that was a bit odd? Decades of one leader then all of sudden, it is the Mary Lou and Michelle show.

Did you miss the challenge to Michelle O'Neill lately?

Are you aware how Leo was'annointed' chosen as leader?

olestoepoke

sid waddell wrote: »

Wouldn't it be better for the media to start investigating which unelected business figures are influencing FF and FG's policies and negotiating strategy rather than endless stories about people who used to be on the IRA Army Council? SF were the political wing of the IRA. Everybody knows that. Are people seriously saying they can't or shouldn't be allowed to take advice from people who were in the IRA?

You mention Strategy. Who do you think is in charge of strategy at RTE?

sid waddell

olestoepoke wrote: »

You mention Strategy. Who do you think is in charge of strategy at RTE?

I think the people paid to be in charge of strategy at RTE are in charge of it.

The point is that influence over the strategy or editorial stances of state television is usually unsaid, state television tends to be more deferential towards the government of the day and their chosen framing of issues, no matter which country we're talking about. I suspect those working throughout RTE have a fairly narrow and not very diverse set of backgrounds, they will pick from a certain pool. That's generally the way it works in media, and especially in Irish media. The revolving door is a common theme throughout politics, media and business and Irish society in general is highly interconnected in terms of relationships and a certain "circle".

feargale

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We have an independent body to monitor such things. We don't need McDonald to tell us.

The findings of that committee underpins who gets to govern in the north.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ira-firmly-committed-to-political-path-imc-reports-1.1199390

We don't need her to tell us anything. But we thought that when she volunteered to tell us something that we might be entitled to ask a supplementary question by way of clarification, even if we had to settle for an answer such as "I'm not their mammy."
Now, since she professes to know so much about the IRA, could we ask again: when precisely did Mr. Adams' "they haven't gone away" assertion become redundant?
Or do SF enjoy an exemption from awkward questions that others don't enjoy?
Oh, interesting times!

olestoepoke

sid waddell wrote: »

I think the people paid to be in charge of strategy at RTE are in charge of it.

The point is that influence over the strategy or editorial stances of state television is usually unsaid, state television tends to be more deferential towards the government of the day and their chosen framing of issues, no matter which country we're talking about. I suspect those working throughout RTE have a fairly narrow and not very diverse set of backgrounds, they will pick from a certain pool. That's generally the way it works in media, and especially in Irish media. The revolving door is a common theme throughout politics, media and business and Irish society in general is highly interconnected in terms of relationships and a certain "circle".

I was alluding to Rory Coveney brother to Simon

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did you miss the challenge to Michelle O'Neill lately?

Are you aware how Leo was'annointed' chosen as leader?

At least there was a challenger to Leo in Simon Coveney

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-leadership-race-leo-varadkar-wins-vote-among-councillors-as-counting-continues-35782502.html

I notice how when you are caught out you revert to deflection the much practiced dark art of SF.
You cannot tell me that a woman southerner was just given the hot seat in SF after a virtual dictatorship of Gerry Adams for 30 plus years - was a bit odd for any democratic party.

I also notice how Mary Lou did the same tactic. When she said to Leo that the IRA has gone away, yet leo has sat around the table with corrupt politicians in the past.

It made me laugh because in Mary Lou's mindset SF are not corrupt, and that corruption is worse than murder or as an accessory to covering up the same. Even when the war was supposed to be over!

kilburn

sid waddell wrote:

Wouldn't it be better for the media to start investigating which unelected business figures are influencing FF and FG's policies and negotiating strategy rather than endless stories about people who used to be on the IRA Army Council? SF were the political wing of the IRA. Everybody knows that. Are people seriously saying they can't or shouldn't be allowed to take advice from people who were in the IRA?

Personally I wouldn't want my country run by people who take advise from terrorists

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

At least there was a challenger to Leo in Simon Coveney

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-leadership-race-leo-varadkar-wins-vote-among-councillors-as-counting-continues-35782502.html

I notice how when you are caught out you revert to deflection the much practiced dark art of SF.
You cannot tell me that a woman southerner was just given the hot seat in SF after a virtual dictatorship of Gerry Adams for 30 plus years - was a bit odd for any democratic party.

Tell us what you know of the selection process of the SF leader?

I think it was The Sunday Times that was claiming that the 'Army Council' was opposed to her becoming leader before she was elected.

Not very good at the 'overarching strategy' those Army Council guys eh?

BTW The Fine Gael members choice of leader was ignored.

WomanSkirtFan8

kilburn wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't want my country run by people who take advise from terrorists

Here here. I second that.

Umaro

Wasn't the First Dáil full of former terrorists?

Or is that different somehow?

FrancieBrady

Umaro wrote: »

Wasn't the First Dáil full of former terrorists?

Or is that different somehow?

Some members of FF came to the '38 Dáil armed.

is_that_so

FrancieBrady wrote: »

BTW The Fine Gael members choice of leader was ignored.

It's a democratic process and any rule changes are approved at an Ard Fheis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Fine_Gael_leadership_election#Electoral_process

FF leader selection is limited to parliamentary party and Labour TDs only.

FrancieBrady

is_that_so wrote: »

It's a democratic process and any rule changes are approved at an Ard Fheis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Fine_Gael_leadership_election#Electoral_process

FF leader selection is limited to parliamentary party and Labour TDs only.

And SF's (according to a member here) is selected/nominated by individual cumann's and voted on at the Ard Fheis.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And SF's (according to a member here) is selected/nominated by individual cumann's and voted on at the Ard Fheis.

I know a lad beside me, he went to a meeting with another local young fella who was going on in the last locals for SF, they were looking for volunteers for to help with the campaign and the canvas.
Two lads from Armagh turned up and took the meeting and directed how the campaign should be run, a bit odd for a Longford local candidate don't you think?