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Are FFG & the media putting peace in Ireland in Jeopardy

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24

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    #32
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    I see Beasty only deletes anti shinner threads.


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    #33
    jd1983
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭jd1983


    quokula wrote: »
    The biggest danger to the peace process in recent years was Sinn Fein's dereliction of duty in the north and their decision to leave it without a government for 3 years.

    I find this argument quite frankly astonishing. Do you not lay the blame at DUP's door for this? This 'government' with very limited powers fell initially due to the ash for cash scandal, which was corruption from the DUP.
    Since then the DUP has shown an unwillingness to compromise on policy issues that most parties north, South and in the UK agree on such as:
    - same sex marriage
    - reproductive rights
    - language rights that are in place for welsh and Scottish

    Furthermore, I find it incredible that ff & FG would use such arguments when they're unwilling to even talk with sf. The fact that such gross hypocrisy isn't challenged by the media or in debates clearly shows bias.


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    #34
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    Suggesting that a free media not be allowed to investigate and report on stories is a troubling sign. The thinly veiled threats that they are jeopardising peace by doing their jobs is designed do one thing only - stop them from doing their jobs.

    There’s a hint of thuggery about it tbh.


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    #35
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    BanditLuke wrote: »
    I think it's obvious now that that's the case OP. Look at them put the Garda commissioner front and centre a couple of days ago in an attempt to play games and belittle the progress SF have made. Sad and predictable but unfortunately dangerous.

    They chose an out of town garda commissioner because we could no longer trust garda hq not to pick another corrupt top cop


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    #36
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    He wasnt really. He was a British agent, and their ace in the hole to force the closing of the armed struggle and transition to a political process. He had to do some nasty stuff to maintain the illusion. But overall, his dismantling of the IRA, with a couple of other agents on the council, from within, was very positive.

    How would you know who was a "British agent"?

    Sounds like hearsay a hundred times rinsed


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    #37
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Sounds like the Sinn Fein supporters can’t hack being at the grown ups table where everything you do is scrutinised.


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    #38
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    People had plenty of parties to vote for on the left. It's not media's, FF's or FG's fault they picked the most corrupt and stupid one.

    Anyway I see they are doing public meetings now to mobilise the mob and get them into power. European right wingers would be proud of their methods.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/sinn-féin-to-hold-public-meetings-around-country-to-rally-support-for-government-efforts-1.4182279?mode=amp


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    #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Who are FFG?


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    #40
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,929 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Deleted User wrote:
    Who are FFG?


    The new major party that will be in government soon


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    #41
    piplip87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭piplip87


    There is no media bias against SF. It just so happens SF supporters only read the Irish Times or Independent when SF are mentioned. These two publications have savaged both FF and FG over the years.

    Brian Dobson's interview with Marylou seen as a hit job by supporters yet he also asked MM and LV tough questions.

    During the interviews Marylou was asked a question about the Vacent Site Levy and couldn't answer it. Similarly she was asked about the new tax band and how she would attract consultants wit this.... Many times during the debates She went of on a rant about representing the ordinary people but didn't answer the questions put to her, she was rightly pulled up but the supporters seen bias in this....

    As for the IRA. It is not biased to ask questions regarding this, as some candidates have direct links with the armed campaign. Many still attend commemorations for provisional IRA members.

    The British and Irish Security forces have both stated that the Army Council still exists. They have evidence we don't have to make that call. The media have a responsibility to report on this.

    It's not media bias or Garda bias it's just people doing their jobs.

    So no they are not risking the peace process


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    #42
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,927 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Wanderer78 wrote:
    The new major party that will be in government soon

    You mean the same as the last government then? Not so new after all. :)


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    #43
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    You mean the same as the last government then? Not so new after all. :)
    FF were in opposition last time out though (apparently).


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    #44
    Chris_Heilong
    Registered Users Posts: 4,973 ✭✭✭Chris_Heilong


    I am not mad on Sinn Fein as their polices are a bit too far left and they seem to be drinking the same coolaid as some of the American twitter brigade with Mary using made up terms like 'mansplaining':( This is a problem in my opinion and not the old IRA connections, I really dont give a crap about things that happened in the distant past but I want to give them a chance as it is the only realistic alternative to the clowns that have been running Ireland for years.


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    #45
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,927 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    McMurphy wrote:
    FF were in opposition last time out though (apparently).


    This is why they did so badly in the election. They abstained through the deepening housing and homeless crisis. They should have pulled the plug 2 or 3 years ago. They didn't so voters see no difference between the two parties


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    #46
    jd1983
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭jd1983


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Suggesting that a free media not be allowed to investigate and report on stories is a troubling sign. The thinly veiled threats that they are jeopardising peace by doing their jobs is designed do one thing only - stop them from doing their jobs.

    There’s a hint of thuggery about it tbh.

    Ok, this is the most ridiculous nonsense I've read in a long while.
    Who's saying the media shouldn't report?
    Threats? Thuggery? What planet are you on, does expressing a concern about the rise of dissident republican groups equate to thuggish threats? Or are you just ignorant of republicanism and believe that they're the same group as Sinn Fein and the pira?


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    #47
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    They're all full of sh!t.
    Would you like fried sh!t, boiled sh!t or - the controversial new option - battered sh!t?


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    #48
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Who do you want represented:
    Big business, window dressed as middle class representation?
    FF's mates, window dressed as whatever the last thing you said was?
    A formerly terrorist military organisation, window-dressed with wokeness and puppies?

    It's like the 'would you rather' game they had in 30rock.


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    #49
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    Westley Lazy Vitamin wrote: »
    Who do you want represented:
    Big business, window dressed as middle class representation?
    FF's mates, window dressed as whatever the last thing you said was?
    A formerly terrorist military organisation, window-dressed with wokeness and puppies?

    It's like the 'would you rather' game they had in 30rock.

    Ever since i have my own money, A please.


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    #50
    macwal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭macwal


    Westley Lazy Vitamin wrote: »
    They're all full of sh!t.
    Would you like fried sh!t, boiled sh!t or - the controversial new option - battered sh!t?


    I almost agree, there are a handful that have their hearts in the right place, but I believe the vast majority are only in there for the fat fcuking pension that they'll get at the end of it.


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    #51
    UDAWINNER
    Registered Users Posts: 860 ✭✭✭UDAWINNER


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Do SF supporters start more threads on boards than other people?
    its the ffg bots who start the most threads around sf as a means to bash them. Have a look at the politics.current affairs thread and tell me i am wrong, unless you consider Blanch a Sinn Feiner.


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    #52
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    macwal wrote: »
    I almost agree, there are a handful that have their hearts in the right place, but I believe the vast majority are only in there for the fat fcuking pension that they'll get at the end of it.
    Oh for sure there are good individuals. Jan O'Sullivan is widely respected as one, but just lost her seat.


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    #53
    UDAWINNER
    Registered Users Posts: 860 ✭✭✭UDAWINNER


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    He wasnt really. He was a British agent, and their ace in the hole to force the closing of the armed struggle and transition to a political process. He had to do some nasty stuff to maintain the illusion. But overall, his dismantling of the IRA, with a couple of other agents on the council, from within, was very positive.
    Any evidence of that or are you throwing baseless accusations at a person who will remembered in history as one of the greatest politicians on these Islands.
    Don't expect a response apart from your usual dribble.
    PS: TROL is an apt username


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    #54
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    jd1983 wrote: »
    This is in regards to their treatment of Sinn Fein, treating them like a pariah.

    The biggest threat to the peace process is dissident republican groups who refused to sign up to the good Friday agreement. Core to their argument is that the good Friday agreement was a con job that will never deliver a united Ireland and that the establishment both sides of the border will never respect Sinn Fein. This argument was strengthened a few years ago when Leo effectively said that he doesn't believe the good Friday agreement should be honoured, stating that there should be a substantial majority before a united Ireland should be allowed. I believe the reaction by FFG and the Irish media to sinn fein's electoral success will help dissident republican groups recruit new disillusioned members.

    I'm not a Sinn Fein supporter and I find what they carried out before 1998 as abhorrent. However I feel it's important to support groups that are now looking to achieve their goals via peaceful means.

    Election result: FF 38, SF 37, FG 35. When I went to school 38 exceeded 37, and 38 plus 35 exceeded it even more. Less than 50% of ,the electorate voted for the "change" that we keep hearing about, and only about a quarter of them voted for change a lá Sinn Féin. SF have at all times said they don't want a coalition with FG. That is their entitlement. But they are not prepared to acknowledge that FF and FG have an equal right to shun SF. It's called democracy for slow learners.
    In the best traditions of the SF school of democracy, sauce for the goose is not sauce for the gander. SF are free to talk to all other TDs, likeminded or not, with la view to forming a government. In fact they have been encouraged to do so by FF and FG. But being slow learners in the demicracy game, and given their general sense of entitlement, this is not good enough for them.
    And now we have a new departure. As they are having difficulty getting their way with enough other representatives they are moving away from discussions with other parties towards rallies in places similar to Hitler's beerhalls.
    FYI this is what Leo Varadkar said:

    Mr Varadkar said parties that supported a united Ireland did not have a majority, at around 40%, adding that was why he was opposed to holding a poll on Irish unity now.

    He added: "That is still well short of the 50% plus one that you would need to win a border poll.

    "That is why I don't think that a border poll is a good idea. I don't see that we would gain from that sort of scenario."

    SF want a poll, even though the latest opinion poll shows 29% in favour. Any border poll now will fail and will push a United Ireland back by fifty years. But why should SF worry about that? Talking on and on about a UI is a good sales pitch for weak-minded voters. Power trumps a UI in their books.

    The threat to peace comes not from FF or FG but from where it always came from. Watch the masks that slipped on election night in Waterford and Dublin. And watch the beerhalls. Trust lawful authority to deal with the dissidents.

    P.S. If you are not a SF supporter why do you refer to FFG? No such party exists except in the minds of "republican" propagandists.


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    #55
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,927 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    feargale wrote:
    Election result: FF 38, SF 37, FG 35. When I went to school 38 exceeded 37, and 38 plus 35 exceeded it even more. Less than 50% of ,the electorate voted for the "change" that we keep hearing about, and only about a quarter of them voted for change a lá Sinn Féin. SF have at all times said they don't want a coalition with FG. That is their entitlement. But they are not prepared to acknowledge that FF and FG have an equal right to shun SF. It's called democracy for slow learners. In the best traditions of the SF school of democracy, sauce for the goose is not sauce for the gander. SF are free to talk to all other TDs, likeminded or not, with la view to forming a government. In fact they have been encouraged to do so by FF and FG. But being slow learners in the demicracy game, and given their general sense of entitlement, this is not good enough for them. And now we have a new departure. As they are having difficulty getting their way with enough other representatives they are moving away from discussions with other parties towards rallies in places similar to Hitler's beerhalls. FYI this is what Leo Varadkar said:

    You might need to redo your sums. 38 + 35 =73. This is 7 short of half of the Dail and 8 short of a majority. I think people definitely voted for change though I don't think a lot of younger voters realised that SF were still so closely linked to the IRA and that their leader can't use big girl words to distance themselves from the IRA. They definitely voted for change though.


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    #56
    jd1983
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭jd1983


    feargale wrote: »
    Election result: FF 38, SF 37, FG 35. When I went to school 38 exceeded 37, and 38 plus 35 exceeded it even more. Less than 50% of ,the electorate voted for the "change" that we keep hearing about, and only about a quarter of them voted for change a lá Sinn Féin. SF have at all times said they don't want a coalition with FG. That is their entitlement. But they are not prepared to acknowledge that FF and FG have an equal right to shun SF. It's called democracy for slow learners.
    In the best traditions of the SF school of democracy, sauce for the goose is not sauce for the gander. SF are free to talk to all other TDs, likeminded or not, with la view to forming a government. In fact they have been encouraged to do so by FF and FG. But being slow learners in the demicracy game, and given their general sense of entitlement, this is not good enough for them.
    And now we have a new departure. As they are having difficulty getting their way with enough other representatives they are moving away from discussions with other parties towards rallies in places similar to Hitler's beerhalls.
    FYI this is what Leo Varadkar said:

    Mr Varadkar said parties that supported a united Ireland did not have a majority, at around 40%, adding that was why he was opposed to holding a poll on Irish unity now.

    He added: "That is still well short of the 50% plus one that you would need to win a border poll.

    "That is why I don't think that a border poll is a good idea. I don't see that we would gain from that sort of scenario."

    SF want a poll, even though the latest opinion poll shows 29% in favour. Any border poll now will fail and will push a United Ireland back by fifty years. But why should SF worry about that? Talking on and on about a UI is a good sales pitch for weak-minded voters. Power trumps a UI in their books.

    The threat to peace comes not from FF or FG but from where it always came from. Watch the masks that slipped on election night in Waterford and Dublin. And watch the beerhalls. Trust lawful authority to deal with the dissidents.

    P.S. If you are not a SF supporter why do you refer to FFG? No such party exists except in the minds of "republican" propagandists.

    "I wouldn't like us to get to the point whereby we are changing the constitutional position in Northern Ireland on a 50pc plus one basis," Mr Varadkar said referring to the prospect of a Border poll.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/varadkar-wants-a-united-ireland-through-consensus-not-border-poll-36238375.html

    I agree that it's too early for a border poll but saying it will push back the agenda by 50 years is nonsense. However suggesting that peace treaty's shouldn't be honoured is a dangerous game that Leo is playing.

    Using ffg is a commonly used abbreviation, suitable for a title thread which I wanted to keep succinct. Stating that it's any kind of indication that I'm a Sinn Fein supporter weakens any argument you're trying to make.


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    #57
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,048 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    You might need to redo your sums. 38 + 35 =73. This is 7 short of half of the Dail and 8 short of a majority. I think people definitely voted for change though I don't think a lot of younger voters realised that SF were still so closely linked to the IRA and that their leader can't use big girl words to distance themselves from the IRA. They definitely voted for change though.

    If SF can get to 73 then FF or even FG would find some arrangement to allow them to take the reins, as the difference is so small.

    It doesn't look like SF will get anywhere close to that number, as several on the left dont want to deal with them or be anywhere near government either


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    #58
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,731 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Why should politicians tip toe around if they are anti SF. Say it like it is. And the media should be fearless in resisting the SF tendency to try to censor them.

    The dissidents don't need stories in the papers to motivate them to murder. That is the stock in trade of terrorists.


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    #59
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    jd1983 wrote: »
    "I wouldn't like us to get to the point whereby we are changing the constitutional position in Northern Ireland on a 50pc plus one basis," Mr Varadkar said referring to the prospect of a Border poll.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/varadkar-wants-a-united-ireland-through-consensus-not-border-poll-36238375.html

    There are lots of things Leo Varadkar wouldn't like, including not being Taoiseach. But he will have no bloody choice in that because his party respects the constitution and will bow to the will of the Dàil. Unlike some others his party doesn't do beerhall politics. He did not say that he would flout the result of a border poll taken in accordance with the GFA. Let me tell you that I would be uncomfortable with a slim pro-UI poll, as I'm sure alot would, but that is not to say that the result would be disrespected.
    jd1983 wrote: »
    "I agree that it's too early for a border poll but saying it will push back the agenda by 50 years is nonsense. However suggesting that peace treaty's shouldn't be honoured is a dangerous game that Leo is playing.

    Re 50 years, you are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. I hope you don't think that a border poll will be all rosy. In the event of a negative poll we could settle it with a bet except that I won't be around to collect.
    jd1983 wrote: »
    " Using ffg is a commonly used abbreviation, suitable for a title thread which I wanted to keep succinct. Stating that it's any kind of indication that I'm a Sinn Fein supporter weakens any argument you're trying to make.

    Whatever. I didn't say you were a SF supporter and if you are saying you didn't vote for them who am I to say otherwise? As an aside you will probably be aware that there are a number of them in social media posing as neutrals.


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    #60
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    pinkyeye wrote: »
    They're absolutely putting the peace process in jeopardy out of fear. They're absolutely ****ting themselves now that they haven't got a clear run at power.

    Interesting...can you explain who HAS got a clear run at power?


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    #61
    pinkyeye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭pinkyeye


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Interesting...can you explain who HAS got a clear run at power?

    No-one has at the moment, that's the whole point. :confused:


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