Are FFG & the media putting peace in Ireland in Jeopardy

jd1983

This is in regards to their treatment of Sinn Fein, treating them like a pariah.

The biggest threat to the peace process is dissident republican groups who refused to sign up to the good Friday agreement. Core to their argument is that the good Friday agreement was a con job that will never deliver a united Ireland and that the establishment both sides of the border will never respect Sinn Fein. This argument was strengthened a few years ago when Leo effectively said that he doesn't believe the good Friday agreement should be honoured, stating that there should be a substantial majority before a united Ireland should be allowed. I believe the reaction by FFG and the Irish media to sinn fein's electoral success will help dissident republican groups recruit new disillusioned members.

I'm not a Sinn Fein supporter and I find what they carried out before 1998 as abhorrent. However I feel it's important to support groups that are now looking to achieve their goals via peaceful means.

NIMAN

jd1983 wrote: »

I'm not a Sinn Fein supporter and I find what they carried out before 1998 as abhorrent.

SF didn't do anything before 1998. The IRA might have though.

pinkyeye

They're absolutely putting the peace process in jeopardy out of fear. They're absolutely ****ting themselves now that they haven't got a clear run at power.

n97 mini

You lost me at FFG. FF and FG are not the same party.

BanditLuke

I think it's obvious now that that's the case OP. Look at them put the Garda commissioner front and centre a couple of days ago in an attempt to play games and belittle the progress SF have made. Sad and predictable but unfortunately dangerous.

Hurrache

No. That is all.

Putting a strain on the tinfoil industry though.

freshpopcorn

Did the media reporting about Maria Bailey, Alan Farrell, housing, etc which may have turned people to voting for Sinn Fèin also put the peace process in jeopardy?

The Rape of Lucretia

n97 mini wrote: »

You lost me at FFG. FF and FG are not the same party.

SF people like to use the term FFG - it presents a view that they are 'establishment', and SF are 'change'. Fortunately, FFG people look at terrorism, and say 'no thanks' SF.

The Rape of Lucretia

BanditLuke wrote: »

I think it's obvious now that that's the case OP. Look at them put the Garda commissioner front and centre a couple of days ago in an attempt to play games and belittle the progress SF have made. Sad and predictable but unfortunately dangerous.

In a democracy, statements of fact are never dangerous. It is the hiding of the truth that kills democracies.

Sleeper12

NIMAN wrote:

SF didn't do anything before 1998. The IRA might have though.

You honestly believe there is a difference. Next you'll be telling me that Gerry Adams wasn't head of the IRA.

I'm all for a change in government. I'd honestly like to give SF a chance in government but Mary lou needs to say a lot more than "they have gone away". The SF surge has happened about a decade sooner than the party is ready to move on

The Rape of Lucretia

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You honestly believe there is a difference. Next you'll be telling me that Gerry Adams wasn't head of the IRA.

He wasnt really. He was a British agent, and their ace in the hole to force the closing of the armed struggle and transition to a political process. He had to do some nasty stuff to maintain the illusion. But overall, his dismantling of the IRA, with a couple of other agents on the council, from within, was very positive.

Sleeper12

The Rape of Lucretia wrote:

He wasnt really. He was a British agent, and their ace in the hole to force the closing of the armed struggle and transition to a political process. He had to do some nasty stuff to maintain the illusion. But overall, his dismantling of the IRA, with a couple of other agents on the council, from within, was very positive.

During the peace negotiations he went to put the deal to the IRA army Council. It's well believed that he went into a room on his own without a phone and came back with their answer!

NIMAN

BanditLuke wrote: »

I think it's obvious now that that's the case OP. Look at them put the Garda commissioner front and centre a couple of days ago in an attempt to play games and belittle the progress SF have made. Sad and predictable but unfortunately dangerous.

Well thats a real conspiracy there. Do you believe in a lot of conspiracies?

You really think Leo and people in the media are giving Drew Harris a call and saying "tell you the craic Drew, we need you to go on the TV and say that the IRA army council are still running SF".

And at the same time get the media in NI to get the relevant people up there to do the same? And this is all being organised by RTE/FG/Indo etc to discredit SF?

Or would the simpler answer not be that maybe its actually right? That the guys in the army council during the troubles haven't headed off to get a regular 9 to 5 job and that they are still pulling strings behind the scenes?

I know which sounds more plausible in my mind.

Sleeper12

NIMAN wrote:

I know which sounds more plausible in my mind.

She won't even deny it in real words. "they have gone away" was a terrible answer. Ducked the question asked totally. Then she say Leo (who I don't have any time for myself) was only making this up because he didn't get elected Taoisech the day before. She's making out that he is like a spoilt child.

I think some of her new supporters must be shocked at her performance this week on this subject.

jd1983

NIMAN wrote: »

Well thats a real conspiracy there. Do you believe in a lot of conspiracies?

You really think Leo and people in the media are giving Drew Harris a call and saying "tell you the craic Drew, we need you to go on the TV and say that the IRA army council are still running SF".

And at the same time get the media in NI to get the relevant people up there to do the same? And this is all being organised by RTE/FG/Indo etc to discredit SF?

Or would the simpler answer not be that maybe its actually right? That the guys in the army council during the troubles haven't headed off to get a regular 9 to 5 job and that they are still pulling strings behind the scenes?

I know which sounds more plausible in my mind.

Often these situations don't require conspiracies, all it requires is for powerful people to act in mutual self interest. I can see why a former RUC officer might prefer fg or ff in government and generally former ruc officers aren't known to be unbiased in regards to republicans. I can't see why you'd think Leo would need to give drew a call.

golfball37

Anyone who believes the pIra are still out there probably believes in the tooth fairy too. I’d love to see sf get their hands on the dirty documents the FFG establishment doesn’t want the public to know about.
The head of the Gardai is meant to be apolitical there should be arrests if there is a secret illegal army known to be controlling a political party, not a press conference without evidence

Suckit

n97 mini wrote: »

You lost me at FFG. FF and FG are not the same party.

dxhound2005

None of the versions of the IRA currently active are strong enough to endanger the peace process. They are murdering far far fewer than the Provisionals did when they were active.

The peace process will only be in danger if Sinn Fein decide to go back to their armalites. And I hope that won't happen, even if they fail to get into government.

jd1983

dxhound2005 wrote: »

None of the versions of the IRA currently active are strong enough to endanger the peace process. They are murdering far far fewer than the Provisionals did when they were active.

The peace process will only be in danger if Sinn Fein decide to go back to their armalites. And I hope that won't happen, even if they fail to get into government.

Surely the same could have been said in the early 60's before the provos gained popular support in parts of the north. Things can change very quickly.

It's against Sinn Fein's interests to return to terrorism at this stage. It would do both them and the chances of a united Ireland at a great risk.

McMurphy

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Did the media reporting about Maria Bailey, Alan Farrell, housing, etc which may have turned people to voting for Sinn Fèin also put the peace process in jeopardy?

Does anyone dispute the Farrell/Bailey or the housing crises?

Did the media have access to irrefutable evidence to back up any of their articles?

Obviously FG could release the internal report they commissioned that they said exonerated Bailey and Madigan from any wrongdoings, but bizarrely they never seemed prepared to so so.

I don't think you actually thought your response through before posting tbh, try and do so next time.

Carol25

How many of these so called threads of ‘I’m not a Sinn Féin supporter but’... are going to appear on boards before people realise what is happening.
Since the election Sinn Féin have disappointed and alarmed me in equal measure:
1. Constantly attacking the public service broadcaster and making personal attack’s against presenters - disgraceful.
2. Singing ‘Up the Ra’ when elected and appointing Gerry Adams as one of the main negotiators in the talks for forming a government.
.3 Pretending it’s everyone else’s fault because they themselves didn’t put forward enough candidates in the election and now don’t have enough to form a government.
4. And finally why on earth would Sinn Fein organise protests because they themselves don’t have the numbers required for the Dáil? What does it achieve only trouble and unrest?!

Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael are two Centre/right political parties in Ireland. They’re not actually ‘right wing’ as we get free health care, rent paid if we’re out of a job, and other benefits. My husband works with a man who lives in California, some working class are currently living in tents there as they get nothing.

freshpopcorn

McMurphy wrote: »

Does anyone dispute the Farrell/Bailey or the housing crises?


I don't think you actually thought your response through before posting tbh, try and do so next time.

People have tried to dispute the housing crises at times or say it's not as bad as some make it out to be from what I remember.

I put a bit of thought into my response similar to those who voted for Sinn Fèin!

Foxtrol

McMurphy wrote: »

Does anyone dispute the Farrell/Bailey or the housing crises?

Did the media have access to irrefutable evidence to back up any of their articles?

Obviously FG could release the internal report they commissioned that they said exonerated Bailey and Madigan from any wrongdoings, but bizarrely they never seemed prepared to so so.

I don't think you actually thought your response through before posting tbh, try and do so next time.

Does anyone dispute the actions of several SF TDs that came out since the election or their actions related to the Quinn murder?

Talk about non-released FG report yet SF had Pearse out apologising for tweets that he didn't even bother to read :rolleyes:

Same nonsense from the same mouthpieces claiming those are also anti-SF smears by the media. Some can't seem to deal with the scrutiny so take the Trump route with blaming the media for the actions of their own. Sad...

Necro

jd1983 wrote:

Often these situations don't require conspiracies, all it requires is for powerful people to act in mutual self interest. I can see why a former RUC officer might prefer fg or ff in government and generally former ruc officers aren't known to be unbiased in regards to republicans. I can't see why you'd think Leo would need to give drew a call.

You mean the PSNI right?

A police force that we will HAVE to integrate if we are to have United Ireland.

Not just disband and make them sit on the naughty step because some eejits can't accept atrocities happened on both sides

Because that's what a UI means despite the hyperbole.

quokula

The biggest danger to the peace process in recent years was Sinn Fein's dereliction of duty in the north and their decision to leave it without a government for 3 years.

overkill602

they are the party that got the most first prefs
went on a clean up of some of it candidates social media most notably the anti Semitic and the one who didn t pay her rent for a couple of years and then there was the clown that shouted up the RA.
the media just report facts if you dont believe you can fact check yourself, exposing history in the interest of democracy is as important.
the party has 25% representation from its populist manifesto's dream list of goodies not matched by any other party.
The week before the election MLD had to backtrack on her quotes several times on the guy murder carried out by the RA in 07.
I feel strongly there is still a security threat here if they entered government they are still under the direction of the provo army council.
SF ran the best campaign and used the media very well am sure they are more than happy that more scrutiny wasn t in place before.

Suckit

overkill602 wrote: »

they are the party that got the most first prefs
went on a clean up of some of it candidates social media most notably the anti Semitic and the one who didn t pay her rent for a couple of years and then there was the clown that shouted up the RA.
the media just report facts if you dont believe you can fact check yourself, exposing history in the interest of democracy is as important.
the party has 25% representation from its populist manifesto's dream list of goodies not matched by any other party.
The week before the election MLD had to backtrack on her quotes several times on the guy murder carried out by the RA in 07.
I feel strongly there is still a security threat here if they entered government they are still under the direction of the provo army council.
SF ran the best campaign and used the media very well am sure they are more than happy that more scrutiny wasn t in place before.

Okay then we can watch leo and michaels party vote for mary lou as the next taoiseach and hopefully it will speed things along because the party that broke the bank and the party that fed the quangos are saying that they dont want to be in because they didnt get voted in or they dont need to be doing anything and the other party that dont do anything anyway ok then we can sort it out is that okay and then we can wonder why nothing is achieved in this country because noody can figure out how to cooperate and they all want to argue for a little bit longer every single time because they are a bunch of words i am not allowed to type on this forum.

StupidLikeAFox

Carol25 wrote: »

How many of these so called threads of ‘I’m not a Sinn Féin supporter but’... are going to appear on boards before people realise what is happening.
Since the election Sinn Féin have disappointed and alarmed me in equal measure:
1. Constantly attacking the public service broadcaster and making personal attack’s against presenters - disgraceful.
2. Singing ‘Up the Ra’ when elected and appointing Gerry Adams as one of the main negotiators in the talks for forming a government.
.3 Pretending it’s everyone else’s fault because they themselves didn’t put forward enough candidates in the election and now don’t have enough to form a government.
4. And finally why on earth would Sinn Fein organise protests because they themselves don’t have the numbers required for the Dáil? What does it achieve only trouble and unrest?!

Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael are two Centre/right political parties in Ireland. They’re not actually ‘right wing’ as we get free health care, rent paid if we’re out of a job, and other benefits. My husband works with a man who lives in California, some working class are currently living in tents there as they get nothing.

They have been reading the Donald Trump playbook:
- Get rid of FFG cosy cartel / Drain the swamp
- RTE bias / fake news media

Not as offensive as other countries, but common themes also include general whataboutery in the face of any SF criticism, an inability to see any nuance when it comes to their own members actions, an assumption that any and all criticism is an establishment "FFG/Liebour/blue shirt" conspiracy, a general victim complex and now holding rallies for some unknown reason other than rabble rousing.

Jinglejangle69

Do SF supporters start more threads on boards than other people?

Jinglejangle69

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

They have been reading the Donald Trump playbook:
- Get rid of FFG cosy cartel / Drain the swamp
- RTE bias / fake news media

Not as offensive as other countries, but common themes also include general whataboutery in the face of any SF criticism, an inability to see any nuance when it comes to their own members actions, an assumption that any and all criticism is an establishment "FFG/Liebour/blue shirt" conspiracy, a general victim complex and now holding rallies for some unknown reason other than rabble rousing.

You forgot vulture funds and da homeless.

Sawduck

I don't like politics but I'll vote sf mainly because of how they are treated, reminds me of how the brits treat Jeremy corbyn

SmartinMartin

I see Beasty only deletes anti shinner threads.

jd1983

quokula wrote: »

The biggest danger to the peace process in recent years was Sinn Fein's dereliction of duty in the north and their decision to leave it without a government for 3 years.

I find this argument quite frankly astonishing. Do you not lay the blame at DUP's door for this? This 'government' with very limited powers fell initially due to the ash for cash scandal, which was corruption from the DUP.
Since then the DUP has shown an unwillingness to compromise on policy issues that most parties north, South and in the UK agree on such as:
- same sex marriage
- reproductive rights
- language rights that are in place for welsh and Scottish

Furthermore, I find it incredible that ff & FG would use such arguments when they're unwilling to even talk with sf. The fact that such gross hypocrisy isn't challenged by the media or in debates clearly shows bias.

JohnnyFlash

Suggesting that a free media not be allowed to investigate and report on stories is a troubling sign. The thinly veiled threats that they are jeopardising peace by doing their jobs is designed do one thing only - stop them from doing their jobs.

There’s a hint of thuggery about it tbh.

Mad_maxx

BanditLuke wrote: »

I think it's obvious now that that's the case OP. Look at them put the Garda commissioner front and centre a couple of days ago in an attempt to play games and belittle the progress SF have made. Sad and predictable but unfortunately dangerous.

They chose an out of town garda commissioner because we could no longer trust garda hq not to pick another corrupt top cop

Mad_maxx

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

He wasnt really. He was a British agent, and their ace in the hole to force the closing of the armed struggle and transition to a political process. He had to do some nasty stuff to maintain the illusion. But overall, his dismantling of the IRA, with a couple of other agents on the council, from within, was very positive.

How would you know who was a "British agent"?

Sounds like hearsay a hundred times rinsed

Faugheen

Sounds like the Sinn Fein supporters can’t hack being at the grown ups table where everything you do is scrutinised.

meeeeh

People had plenty of parties to vote for on the left. It's not media's, FF's or FG's fault they picked the most corrupt and stupid one.

Anyway I see they are doing public meetings now to mobilise the mob and get them into power. European right wingers would be proud of their methods.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/sinn-féin-to-hold-public-meetings-around-country-to-rally-support-for-government-efforts-1.4182279?mode=amp

Who are FFG?

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote:

Who are FFG?

The new major party that will be in government soon

piplip87

There is no media bias against SF. It just so happens SF supporters only read the Irish Times or Independent when SF are mentioned. These two publications have savaged both FF and FG over the years.

Brian Dobson's interview with Marylou seen as a hit job by supporters yet he also asked MM and LV tough questions.

During the interviews Marylou was asked a question about the Vacent Site Levy and couldn't answer it. Similarly she was asked about the new tax band and how she would attract consultants wit this.... Many times during the debates She went of on a rant about representing the ordinary people but didn't answer the questions put to her, she was rightly pulled up but the supporters seen bias in this....

As for the IRA. It is not biased to ask questions regarding this, as some candidates have direct links with the armed campaign. Many still attend commemorations for provisional IRA members.

The British and Irish Security forces have both stated that the Army Council still exists. They have evidence we don't have to make that call. The media have a responsibility to report on this.

It's not media bias or Garda bias it's just people doing their jobs.

So no they are not risking the peace process

Sleeper12

Wanderer78 wrote:

The new major party that will be in government soon

You mean the same as the last government then? Not so new after all.

McMurphy

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You mean the same as the last government then? Not so new after all.

FF were in opposition last time out though (apparently).

Chris_Heilong

I am not mad on Sinn Fein as their polices are a bit too far left and they seem to be drinking the same coolaid as some of the American twitter brigade with Mary using made up terms like 'mansplaining':( This is a problem in my opinion and not the old IRA connections, I really dont give a crap about things that happened in the distant past but I want to give them a chance as it is the only realistic alternative to the clowns that have been running Ireland for years.

Sleeper12

McMurphy wrote:

FF were in opposition last time out though (apparently).

This is why they did so badly in the election. They abstained through the deepening housing and homeless crisis. They should have pulled the plug 2 or 3 years ago. They didn't so voters see no difference between the two parties

jd1983

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Suggesting that a free media not be allowed to investigate and report on stories is a troubling sign. The thinly veiled threats that they are jeopardising peace by doing their jobs is designed do one thing only - stop them from doing their jobs.

There’s a hint of thuggery about it tbh.

Ok, this is the most ridiculous nonsense I've read in a long while.
Who's saying the media shouldn't report?
Threats? Thuggery? What planet are you on, does expressing a concern about the rise of dissident republican groups equate to thuggish threats? Or are you just ignorant of republicanism and believe that they're the same group as Sinn Fein and the pira?

s7ryf3925pivug

They're all full of sh!t.
Would you like fried sh!t, boiled sh!t or - the controversial new option - battered sh!t?

s7ryf3925pivug

Who do you want represented:
Big business, window dressed as middle class representation?
FF's mates, window dressed as whatever the last thing you said was?
A formerly terrorist military organisation, window-dressed with wokeness and puppies?

It's like the 'would you rather' game they had in 30rock.

Peatys

Westley Lazy Vitamin wrote: »

Who do you want represented:
Big business, window dressed as middle class representation?
FF's mates, window dressed as whatever the last thing you said was?
A formerly terrorist military organisation, window-dressed with wokeness and puppies?

It's like the 'would you rather' game they had in 30rock.

Ever since i have my own money, A please.

macwal

Westley Lazy Vitamin wrote: »

They're all full of sh!t.
Would you like fried sh!t, boiled sh!t or - the controversial new option - battered sh!t?

I almost agree, there are a handful that have their hearts in the right place, but I believe the vast majority are only in there for the fat fcuking pension that they'll get at the end of it.

UDAWINNER

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Do SF supporters start more threads on boards than other people?

its the ffg bots who start the most threads around sf as a means to bash them. Have a look at the politics.current affairs thread and tell me i am wrong, unless you consider Blanch a Sinn Feiner.