General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

Snow Garden · 21-02-2020 04:27PM

I was talking to a FF councillor yesterday and he said the Cullinane video immediately after the election really scuppered any chance of a FF+SF coalition, if there ever was a chance.

MM really ambushed Mary Lou with his sharp speech in the Dail yesterday.

Seth Brundle · 21-02-2020 04:28PM

loyatemu wrote: »

I think we can forget about any FF/SF arrangements now:

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0221/1116746-garda-commissioner-sinn-fein/

...and to think their followers thought they could convince the unbelievers that SF were not linked to violence and paramilitarism :rolleyes:

salmocab · 21-02-2020 04:36PM

eagle eye wrote: »

They'll be happy to get something for their own constituency.
All of us, the 93% who didn't vote for the Greens, should not have to face living in a country where their policies are implemented. There's no mandate for it.

By that logic no party at all has a mandate.

CrabRevolution · 21-02-2020 04:40PM

salmocab wrote: »

By that logic no party at all has a mandate.

"Mandate" has become a bit of a nebulous and catch-all term since the election. It's a bit of a "God is on my side" type mantra where all sides claim it (aside from FG) because it's unprovable.

eagle eye · 21-02-2020 04:52PM

salmocab wrote:

By that logic no party at all has a mandate.

That looks to be the case as no parties can agree on anything. Another GE is a must imo.

Brussels Sprout · 21-02-2020 05:01PM

eagle eye wrote: »

That looks to be the case as no parties can agree on anything. Another GE is a must imo.

You can have elections every 2 weeks if you like. You're never going to have any party getting a majority, which appears to be your criteria for legitimacy.

RandomViewer · 21-02-2020 05:02PM

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

There's a lot to unpack here.
If the Greens do form part of any government then they will have about as much influence on policy that their contribution to the coalition will allow in terms of seat numbers. They’d probably get 2 ministries in a FF/FG/Green government

“the 93% who didn't vote for the Greens” – that’s not how democracy works in a Proportional Representation, multi-party system. Last time out I was unhappy with Michael Lowry and Shane Ross feathering the nests of their local constituencies. > 99% of the population didn’t vote for them but I accepted that that was the cost for their support for a semi-stable governing coalition

“There's no mandate for it” – On the current numbers there’s no mandate for anything clear. In the case of each of FF, FG and SF >75% of the population didn’t’ vote for them but in all likelihood 2 of them will be in government eventually. More than half of people won’t have voted for either of the 2 largest parties in the government. This is how it usually goes in countries with PR systems. People have to get away from the old 2 big parties mindset. Those days are over.

If it happens ,which looks likely now with Varadker getting the first turn as Taoiseach I think the Greens being the minority party should not get full ministries, or anything to do with environment.

Seth Brundle · 21-02-2020 05:08PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

I think the Greens being the minority party should not get full ministries, or anything to do with environment.

Do you want to give a reason why or is this just the usual greens mean extra taxes type nonsense?

An Ciarraioch · 21-02-2020 05:17PM

Not to mention it would discourage small parties from ever going into coalitions if they never got Cabinet positions.

RandomViewer · 21-02-2020 05:59PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Do you want to give a reason why or is this just the usual greens mean extra taxes type nonsense?

They are a one trick pony, put them in as junior minister's in social welfare and health, let them see that people haven't the funds to pay for train lines to Tory island.

RandomViewer · 21-02-2020 06:02PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Not to mention it would discourage small parties from ever going into coalitions if they never got Cabinet positions.

They don't appear to have any skills apart from bleating about the environment, couldn't get one extra vote yesterday ,

Amirani · 21-02-2020 06:04PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

They are a one trick pony, put them in as junior minister's in social welfare and health, let them see that people haven't the funds to pay for train lines to Tory island.

Ah yeah, just make stuff up when you can't actually find anything real to use in your argument. You're basically arguing like one would expect a 6 year old to argue.

Imreoir2 · 21-02-2020 06:22PM

Amirani wrote: »

Ah yeah, just make stuff up when you can't actually find anything real to use in your argument. You're basically arguing like one would expect a 6 year old to argue.

Now be fair, what else can they do when the facts don't support their arguement. Do you just expect them to change their mind when the facts don't agree with them or something?

RandomViewer · 21-02-2020 06:26PM

Amirani wrote: »

Ah yeah, just make stuff up when you can't actually find anything real to use in your argument. You're basically arguing like one would expect a 6 year old to argue.

Saorse Mc Hugh wants to spend E200 million on public transport for Mayo, my example is no more far fetched,

eagle eye · 21-02-2020 06:35PM

Seth Brundle wrote:

Do you want to give a reason why or is this just the usual greens mean extra taxes type nonsense?

Where's the nonsense in the Greens mean extra taxes?

Amirani · 21-02-2020 06:43PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Saorse Mc Hugh wants to spend E200 million on public transport for Mayo, my example is no more far fetched,

Listening to Saoirse McHugh for the transport proposals for the Greens is essentially like listening to Violet Anne Wynne for the Sinn Fein housing proposals.

Fringe candidate that talks about local issues.

Imreoir2 · 21-02-2020 08:27PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Saorse Mc Hugh wants to spend E200 million on public transport for Mayo, my example is no more far fetched,

So what? Saoirse Mc Hugh was not elected and I don't see those proposals in the Green Party manifesto.

WishUWereHere · 21-02-2020 08:35PM

Imreoir2 wrote: »

So what? Saoirse Mc Hugh was not elected and I don't see those proposals in the Green Party manifesto.

WTF is Saoirse McHugh? She has or had a fortnightly column in the Journal, I just don't get the ( seemingly ) infatuation with this person. AND as You say, she wasn't even elected.

Imreoir2 · 21-02-2020 08:59PM

WishUWereHere wrote: »

WTF is Saoirse McHugh? She has or had a fortnightly column in the Journal, I just don't get the ( seemingly ) infatuation with this person. AND as You say, she wasn't even elected.

She is a controversialist. She goes out of her way to seek attention even if it is not actually helpful. Imagine coming out in the middle of a general election campaign as a Green party candidate to say that you are against a carbon tax.

Fine if that is your personal view, you are free to air that opinion within the party as part of policy discussions, but what possible reason other than attention seeking can you have to bring it up a few weeks away from an election when you are well aware that it is not the party position?

WishUWereHere · 21-02-2020 09:02PM

Imreoir2 wrote: »

She is a controversialist. She goes out of her way to seek attention even if it is not actually helpful. Imagine coming out in the middle of a general election campaign as a Green party candidate to say that you are against a carbon tax.

Fine if that is your personal view, you are free to air that opinion within the party as part of policy discussions, but what possible reason other than attention seeking can you have to bring it up a few weeks away from an election when you are well aware that it is not the party position?

True. Anyhow, hopefully now with her not elected, she does a houdini and keeps her views to herself!

AndrewJRenko · 21-02-2020 10:00PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Saorse Mc Hugh wants to spend E200 million on public transport for Mayo, my example is no more far fetched,

Would make much more sense than spending €240m on one Mayo road.

ThunbergsAreGo · 21-02-2020 10:10PM

WishUWereHere wrote: »

True. Anyhow, hopefully now with her not elected, she does a houdini and keeps her views to herself!

She's a Peter Casey type

WishUWereHere · 21-02-2020 10:32PM

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

She's a Peter Casey type

Oooh, I think that's doing Peter Casey an injustice.

marno21 · 21-02-2020 10:45PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Would make much more sense than spending €240m on one Mayo road.

The N5 Westport-Turlough scheme (which is actually costing €128m to construct - not sure where the Government pulled the 240m figure from - the total project cost will be more than 128m but the rest is sunk costs including land purchase) has been fully assessed and represents value for money. It improves 25km of the national road network, for cars, freight and buses, improves safety and journey times.

Having an advanced, thriving economy requires a fit for purpose road network. The N5 between Westport and east of Castlebar (which is part of the EU TEN-T comprehensive network I will add) does not constitute fit for purpose.

Gooey Looey · 21-02-2020 11:11PM

marno21 wrote: »

The N5 Westport-Turlough scheme (which is actually costing €128m to construct - not sure where the Government pulled the 240m figure from - the total project cost will be more than 128m but the rest is sunk costs including land purchase) has been fully assessed and represents value for money. It improves 25km of the national road network, for cars, freight and buses, improves safety and journey times.

Having an advanced, thriving economy requires a fit for purpose road network. The N5 between Westport and east of Castlebar (which is part of the EU TEN-T comprehensive network I will add) does not constitute fit for purpose.

Yes the route needs an upgrade but there is no need for overspending on a dual carriageway as there isn't the volume of traffic to need it

marno21 · 21-02-2020 11:49PM

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Yes the route needs an upgrade but there is no need for overspending on a dual carriageway as there isn't the volume of traffic to need it

Yes there is.

Roads such as this in the 90s and 00s were built as wide single carriageways, which are 15m wide. The dual carriageway being built here is 16.5m wide. So for 10% extra land take and surface, you get double the lanes, no head on collisions, safe overtaking and segregation from local traffic.

It’s a no brainer. So many wide roads around the country yet have 2 lanes, frequent head on collisions and slow moving convoys behind trucks and agri traffic.

beggars_bush · 21-02-2020 11:55PM

marno21 wrote: »

Yes there is.

Roads such as this in the 90s and 00s were built as wide single carriageways, which are 15m wide. The dual carriageway being built here is 16.5m wide. So for 10% extra land take and surface, you get double the lanes, no head on collisions, safe overtaking and segregation from local traffic.

It’s a no brainer. So many wide roads around the country yet have 2 lanes, frequent head on collisions and slow moving convoys behind trucks and agri traffic.

There's a main road between rooskey and mullingar that is 40% over capacity every day.

Needs a huge upgrade to dual carriageway

Charles Babbage · 22-02-2020 12:32AM

beggars_bush wrote: »

There's a main road between rooskey and mullingar that is 40% over capacity every day.

Needs a huge upgrade to dual carriageway

And so it shall be

eagle eye · 22-02-2020 12:33AM

There's roads everywhere that need upgrades, national primary routes which have sections that you bounce up and down on, go sideways on the bent road in your car etc.
Suggesting that any one specific road anywhere is more important than another is ridiculous. Start with the worst and work your way up is how I think it should be done. After all lives are the most important factor or at least that should be the case.

mikemac2 · 22-02-2020 10:43PM

I heard Joan Burton on Sean O’Rourke and it wasn’t just about the election but also her life and times. Grand, I thought it might be interesting.

She turned her defeat in Dublin West into an anti-women issue. And it’s not just an issue for Dublin West, she took listeners on a history tour explaining the lack of women in the Dáil, the Seanad and the cabinet. She spent more time on Mary Lou as a women leader then a leader , why does it matter?

The good people in Dublin West didn’t vote out Burton and Ruth Coppinger on a gender basis, just they were not the best public reps up for election.

When I contacted my local TDs In Dublin West over an issue everyone replied (well their secretaries mostly) except Burton. Hell even Jack Chambers took the time to telephone me. Joan Burton was invisible since 2016

But anyway , shame on the Irish electorate for rejecting women candidates

General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

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