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Jordan Peterson interview on C4

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    #5042
    LineOfBeauty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The chances of encountering a transgender who has done the physical transition is rare (for now), but the chance of meeting someone who identifies themselves as the other gender are much higher. You, yourself, have stated that such people should not be treated any differently that those who have made the physical transformation, and so they'll gain access to female only changing rooms too.

    TBH I find your inability to sympathise with the females who find this uncomfortable or worrying, disturbing. You're so hellbent on giving transgenders full access to gender specific areas, that you have no issue with trampling over their rights.

    It's been asked a few times, and you've always skipped past it. Why do transgenders, as a minority, receive so much priority in their wants over the majority?

    Why do transgender people, as a tiny minority of the overall population, occupy so much space in the minds of the right wing?

    I know. Because it's become so much more unacceptable to treat gays and lesbians like that now, the next easiest target is trans people. I'm under no illusions, if this were 20-30 years ago the vitriol you spout about trans people would've been directed at another minority instead.


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    #5043
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The chances of encountering a transgender who has done the physical transition is rare (for now), but the chance of meeting someone who identifies themselves as the other gender are much higher. You, yourself, have stated that such people should not be treated any differently that those who have made the physical transformation, and so they'll gain access to female only changing rooms too.

    TBH I find your inability to sympathise with the females who find this uncomfortable or worrying, disturbing. You're so hellbent on giving transgenders full access to gender specific areas, that you have no issue with trampling over their rights.

    It's been asked a few times, and you've always skipped past it. Why do transgenders, as a minority, receive so much priority in their wants over the majority?

    Since when do people have a right to exclude others because they are uncomfortable with their bodies? Should butch looking women, old women, unattractive women be banned from changing rooms as well?


  • Options
    #5044
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    LineOfBeauty wrote: »
    Why do transgender people, as a tiny minority of the overall population, occupy so much space in the minds of the right wing?

    I know. Because it's become so much more unacceptable to treat gays and lesbians like that now, the next easiest target is trans people. I'm under no illusions, if this were 20-30 years ago the vitriol you spout about trans people would've been directed at another minority instead.

    Right wingers always need an "enemy".
    You are right the arguments are the exact same as that were made against black and gay people. Society has moved on.


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    #5045
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    What you don't understand, and what you are blind to see, is that you are part of the problem. You can be as smug as you like, and be as ignorant as you wish, but you hurt the cause which you seem to fight for.
    Keep pushing left leaning people away, continue being an aggressive individual who throws "phobia" around and shows little to no sympathy for others. Trump and his ilk are feeding off people like you, it's such a shame.
    I'm out of this thread, have no time for hate fueled people like you.

    If phobia is the wrong word then what do you suggest?
    Seems to fit for me:
    an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something.

    Who do I hate?
    No one, though there is a lot of hate for trans people in this thread. They have been compared to animals, sex offender and perverts.


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    #5046
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's been asked a few times, and you've always skipped past it. Why do transgenders, as a minority, receive so much priority in their wants over the majority?

    On the one hand, 20Cent is saying that transgender people are such a tiny minority that few of us are likely to encounter any in our daily lives.

    On the other hand, he's saying that transgender people matter so much that everything from public bathrooms to hair salons to societal attitudes need to be entirely reconfigured to accommodate this minuscule minority.

    This makes no sense. In a medium-sized Irish town, there might be a tiny handful of non-binary people. Are we supposed to set up special nonbinary hair salons to accommodate a handful of people who don't want to self-identify as male or female? How is that economically viable?


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    #5047
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    20Cent wrote: »
    Since when do people have a right to exclude others because they are uncomfortable with their bodies? Should butch looking women, old women, unattractive women be banned from changing rooms as well?

    Oh ffs. Just answer the damn question. You keep doing this. Someone tries to ask you something, and you come back with questions instead. Show some common courtesy.

    And stop with the unrelated questions. It's stupid, and very trollish. I'm hoping you want posters to take you seriously and treat you with respect, but when you respond with:

    "Should butch looking women, old women, unattractive women be banned from changing rooms as well?"

    It's completely unrelated to the previous point (and the whole transgender debate), and just seeks to make everything retarded. It's a childish posting style.

    So. Just answer the damn question


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    #5048
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    On the one hand, 20Cent is saying that transgender people are such a tiny minority that few of us are likely to encounter any in our daily lives.

    On the other hand, he's saying that transgender people matter so much that everything from public bathrooms to hair salons to societal attitudes need to be entirely reconfigured to accommodate this minuscule minority.

    This makes no sense. In a medium-sized Irish town, there might be a tiny handful of non-binary people. Are we supposed to set up special nonbinary hair salons to accommodate a handful of people who don't want to self-identify as male or female? How is that economically viable?

    No just let them get a haircut wherever they want.
    Is that unreasonable?


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    #5049
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Oh ffs. Just answer the damn question. You keep doing this. Someone tries to ask you something, and you come back with questions instead. Show some common courtesy.

    And stop with the unrelated questions. It's stupid, and very trollish. I'm hoping you want posters to take you seriously and treat you with respect, but when you respond with:

    "Should butch looking women, old women, unattractive women be banned from changing rooms as well?"

    It's completely unrelated to the previous point (and the whole transgender debate), and just seeks to make everything retarded. It's a childish posting style.

    So. Just answer the damn question

    What question?


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    #5050
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    20Cent wrote: »
    Right wingers always need an "enemy".
    You are right the arguments are the exact same as that were made against black and gay people. Society has moved on.

    Society has. You haven't. Neither have the many feminists and SJW.

    You keep making references to homosexuality, but you have repeatedly shown a complete lack of understanding on the topic. Just as you keep making comparisons or equivalents that don't exist, or are inaccurate.

    It's true that those on the right need an enemy. They have the left. And vice versa. That's such a shocker isn't it? Just as feminists, as a movement to promote female rights, will always target males as justification for more rights/protections.


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    #5051
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The aim is to use the idea of compassion to get people one by one to accept whatever ideological position,

    empathy has been weaponised.


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    #5052
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    20Cent wrote: »
    What question?

    Ok. I'm done.

    <insult snipped>

    20Cent Ignored.


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    #5053
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    LineOfBeauty wrote: »
    Why do transgender people, as a tiny minority of the overall population, occupy so much space in the minds of the right wing?

    The "woke" left is obsessed with transgender people. The issue came to my attention only because they were making so much noise about it, demanding separate facilities, new laws, use of "preferred pronouns," etc.

    The right is largely reacting to what the "woke" brigade has been doing and demanding. Jordan Peterson first came to public attention objecting to changes that the woke left wanted to implement in Canada.

    This is not the entire left, by any means. I know people on the more traditional left who believe that the "woke" contingent has blown a marginal issue out of all proportion at the expense of far more pressing issues.


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    #5054
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ok. I'm done. You, 20Cent, are an ignorant piece of ****.

    Mods. Ban/suspend me all you wish, sorry for the language, I know it's wrong.. but... I'm ignoring him. Damn troll.

    Bye bye.


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    #5055
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's been asked a few times, and you've always skipped past it. Why do transgenders, as a minority, receive so much priority in their wants over the majority?

    Because to not pander to their every tiniest whim will either be an ism or a phobia of some sort, you can be damn sure of that.

    It's a weird scenario which has developed among a certain cohort of people - it's like a competition to be the most non traditional, the most diametrically opposite of perceived "normality"

    It's a modern day Monty Python sketch involving gender and sexuality instead of poverty and hardship! Think you 'ave it bad, i'm a 6 foot 3 bearded lesbian man and 'tother lesbians won't even suck my lady dick!:D


  • Options
    #5056
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    The "woke" left is obsessed with transgender people. The issue came to my attention only because they were making so much noise about it, demanding separate facilities, new laws, use of "preferred pronouns," etc.

    The right is largely reacting to what the "woke" brigade has been doing and demanding. Jordan Peterson first came to public attention objecting to changes that the woke left wanted to implement in Canada.

    This is not the entire left, by any means. I know people on the more traditional left who believe that the "woke" contingent has blown a marginal issue out of all proportion at the expense of far more pressing issues.

    The "left" just want equal rights for trans people.
    This seems to be an unreasonable demand to some on the right.
    The right are obsessed with sex, going to the toilet, getting changed uuuuuu willies.
    Prudes.

    The changes Peterson was against in Canada did pass. And no one has been sent to jail for not using pronouns or any of the things he hysterically said would happen happened.


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    #5057
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    This is not the entire left, by any means. I know people on the more traditional left who believe that the "woke" contingent has blown a marginal issue out of all proportion at the expense of far more pressing issues.

    This sort of craic will be the end of the left..


  • Options
    #5058
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This sort of craic will be the end of the left..

    let them at it. it's an ideology built on sand.


  • Options
    #5059
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    let them at it. it's an ideology built on sand.

    Equality?

    No really the vast majority of people are fine with social progress.
    A few dinosaurs still around though but younger generations are far more tolerant.


  • Options
    #5060
    LineOfBeauty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    The "woke" left is obsessed with transgender people. The issue came to my attention only because they were making so much noise about it, demanding separate facilities, new laws, use of "preferred pronouns," etc.

    The right is largely reacting to what the "woke" brigade has been doing and demanding. Jordan Peterson first came to public attention objecting to changes that the woke left wanted to implement in Canada.

    This is not the entire left, by any means. I know people on the more traditional left who believe that the "woke" contingent has blown a marginal issue out of all proportion at the expense of far more pressing issues.

    I'd consider myself left and I'm a member of the LGBTQ community so you'd think transgender issues would play a larger part in my life than the average person but honestly they don't. The only time transgender issues become an issue are when the right tries to turn them into second class citizens. And let's be real about it, if in some alternate reality trans people didn't exist or were outlawed then you can bet the same people on this thread attacking trans people are the same people who would then turn their attention to gays and lesbians because people who are bigoted need a minority group to attack.


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    #5061
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    20Cent wrote: »
    Equality?

    No really the vast majority of people are fine with social progress.
    A few dinosaurs still around though but younger generations are far more tolerant.

    Not "equality" no.

    Requiring people to say things they dont believe. The human mind eventually rebels at such an imposition.


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    #5062
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Have only met one trans person in my life.
    This was female to male transman.
    He talked about things that are so normal for most people that we don't even think about them.

    Going to the bathroom for instance. While transitioning he was growing stubble and dressed male. If he went into the ladies and someone was there they might be offended and tell him to get out. If he goes into the men's and someone realises he could be in trouble as well. He used to spend hours in college holding in a p because going to the toilet was so stressful.
    That's just one aspect of life then there is everything else.

    To help people like this we don't even have to do anything.
    Just treat them the same as everyone else.
    Nothing could be easier.
    Seems to be too much to ask for some though.


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    #5063
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Not "equality" no.

    Requiring people to say things they dont believe. The human mind eventually rebels at such an imposition.

    Who is requiring you to say things you don't believe?

    No one is.


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    #5064
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This sort of craic will be the end of the left..

    It is hugely divisive. The woke left wants to champion transgender activism as the next civil rights struggle. If you support civil rights, so the logic goes, you have to support trans rights. If you don't, you're a bigot and a traitor to the left.

    But these activists don't care very much about the privacy and safety of others, especially girls and women. Data obtained by the Sunday Times show that 90 percent of the sexual harassment, voyeurism, etc., targeting women and girls takes place in unisex facilities. Female athletes are now being pushed off the winners' podium by biological males. Lesbians are being accused of hatred and bigotry if they say that they don't want sex with someone who has a penis — even if the owner of the penis identifies as female.

    Many parents care less about who is on the "left" or "right" than about basic rights to safety and fairness for their children. As a dad, I want my daughters to be safe and comfortable when they go into changing rooms. I want them to have a fair shot at winning a race or a swimming competition or a football match. Most parents feel the same, even those who would be traditionally left-wing on other issues. To them, Jordan Peterson speaks a lot of sense.


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    #5065
    LineOfBeauty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    20Cent wrote: »
    Have only met one trans person in my life.
    This was female to male transman.
    He talked about things that are so normal for most people that we don't even think about them.

    Going to the bathroom for instance. While transitioning he was growing stubble and dressed male. If he went into the ladies and someone was there they might be offended and tell him to get out. If he goes into the men's and someone realises he could be in trouble as well. He used to spend hours in college holding in a p because going to the toilet was so stressful.
    That's just one aspect of life then there is everything else.

    To help people like this we don't even have to do anything.
    Just treat them the same as everyone else.
    Nothing could be easier.
    Seems to be too much to ask for some though.

    For all their ranting and raving you know for a fact they've probably never even spoken to a trans person in their lives. And if they did, they'd be far too cowardly to say what they say here to that person's face. That's the life of a person who subscribes to this far right philosophy, fear of someone different to themselves and cowardly posting about such stuff anonymously on internet forums in the guise of sticking up for womens rights.


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    #5066
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    20Cent wrote: »
    Who is requiring you to say things you don't believe?

    No one is.
    Many (most) people do not believe that a biological male is a woman once they declare themselves as such.


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    #5067
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Many (most) people do not believe that a biological male is a woman once they declare themselves as such.

    And who is forcing you to acknowledge that?


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    #5068
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    LineOfBeauty wrote: »
    For all their ranting and raving you know for a fact they've probably never even spoken to a trans person in their lives. And if they did, they'd be far too cowardly to say what they say here to that person's face. That's the life of a person who subscribes to this far right philosophy, fear of someone different to themselves and cowardly posting about such stuff anonymously on internet forums in the guise of sticking up for womens rights.

    Maybe if they did they would be less prejudiced.
    The far right need wedge issues to create division it used to be homosexuals but they can't pick on them anymore because society has moved on and activists fought for them. Same with trans people now. In a few years no one will remember what the fuss was about.


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    #5069
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,176 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    You can see why it is confusing.

    According to some, anybody who isn't on board with all this are bigots.
    According to a growing section of Feminism, this is the new misogyny.

    So, we are either misogynists or bigots....you can see why people are fast losing patience with all this infantile b#ll###gy!


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    #5070
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,998 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    LineOfBeauty wrote: »
    Why do transgender people, as a tiny minority of the overall population, occupy so much space in the minds of the right wing?

    I know. Because it's become so much more unacceptable to treat gays and lesbians like that now, the next easiest target is trans people. I'm under no illusions, if this were 20-30 years ago the vitriol you spout about trans people would've been directed at another minority instead.

    It's an urge humans demonstrate. The desire to halt change is not new. It's an old story, think accepting gays and gay marriage: people push for change and others push back against it. Those opposed to he change will warn of all the terrible consequences of the change. Then the change happens without all the terrible consequences. Those opposed to the change pretend they were never really opposed to the change. They don't acknowledge the were wrong to oppose the change because the terrible consequences never materialised, they move on to opposing the next change.

    Does anyone remember the opposition to gay marriage? The warnings about all the terrible consequences and knock on effects?

    Some people are just terrified of change and they will find any old reason to oppose changes. Peterson is marketing his products to those people and it's a very successful sales strategy. Fox News is a whole entertainment news station dedicated to the sake audience.

    Fox news will oppose the topic of change of the day and then move on to the next topic. The market exists and people design products to sell to that market.


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    #5071
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    LineOfBeauty wrote: »
    That's the life of a person who subscribes to this far right philosophy, fear of someone different to themselves and cowardly posting about such stuff anonymously on internet forums in the guise of sticking up for womens rights.

    What a silly caricature.

    Personally, I have always supported legal equality and equality of opportunity for women. I support same-sex marriage. I support legal immigration and a multicultural society. I think the "Ireland for the Irish" brigade are ridiculous.

    But female athletes are denied equality of opportunity when forced to compete against biological males. Lesbians are denied respect for their sexual orientation if they are called "bigots" for wanting sex only with natural-born women. Girls are women are denied basic dignity and safety when forced to share bathrooms and changing rooms with boys and men. These are not steps forward. They are regressive moves.

    In the minds of someone like 20Cent, the negative repercussions don't matter. If an 11-year-old girl feels uncomfortable changing in front of adults with penises, that's her problem. If a high-school athlete feels aggrieved because she lost a race (and potentially a college scholarship) to a biological male, that's her problem.


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