new coronavirus outbreak China, Korea, USA - mod warnings in OP (updated 24/02/20)

pc7 · 18-02-2020 11:52AM

wakka12 wrote: »

Not far off 100 more people on the ship infected. 542 total, more than one in 8 passengers now confirmed positive

It really is morally wrong to keep them on it with such a spread occurring.

wakka12 · 18-02-2020 11:53AM

pc7 wrote: »

It really is morally wrong to keep them on it with such a spread occurring.

I believe they are going to all be evacuated now and tested on mainland quarantine zones

RebelButtMunch · 18-02-2020 11:54AM

pc7 wrote: »

It really is morally wrong to keep them on it with such a spread occurring.

The fear is that the one's that seem not to have it, might already be infected. Maybe they are all infected at this stage.

wakka12 · 18-02-2020 11:57AM

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

The fear is that the one's that seem not to have it, might already be infected. Maybe they are all infected at this stage.

Yeh, a huge number of the confirmed have no symptoms. I wonder does that mean they just havnt developed yet or if they are some of the people that simply do not ever experience symptoms with this virus? Crazy that it seems to be really deadly for some of the population and then some people dont even know they have it

splinter65 · 18-02-2020 11:59AM

volchitsa wrote: »

Or he has something else. He's 85 after all.

Edit: By the way, is he the guy who said he was a staunch Tory voter and had supported Boris J but had no faith in him to deal with this crisis? If so, that reduces my sympathy for him, as he seemed to be saying that when he voted for them he knew they were useless but didn't think then that he himself would find himself vulnerable to their recklessness/incompetence so he didn't mind tol much. I'd say Karma to that.

Very elderly man contracts deadly virus but is not entitled to sympathy because he is of the “wrong”political persuasion. Mmmmm...what does that remind me of?!? Behold, the now very famous tolerance and compassion of the left.

s7ryf3925pivug · 18-02-2020 12:16PM

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

The fear is that the one's that seem not to have it, might already be infected. Maybe they are all infected at this stage.

Yeah but cruise ships seem to be less than ideal environments for whatever reason. Better to quarantine them in conditions where they are less likely to catch it.

wakka12 · 18-02-2020 12:18PM

https://time.com/5785594/china-airlines-coronavirus/?utm_source=reddit.com
China's aviation capacity drops by 80%, was second largest in the world, now smaller than Portugal's

RebelButtMunch · 18-02-2020 12:18PM

Kaya Prehistoric Landlord wrote: »

Yeah but cruise ships seem to be less than ideal environments for whatever reason. Better to quarantine them in conditions where they are less likely to catch it.

I'd agree it's less than ideal for them, but in terms of bringing a load of potentially contagious people in contact with everyone else it is ideal for everyone else.

Graces7 · 18-02-2020 12:22PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Does anybody know who is responsible for Ireland crisis management?

I found http://emii.ie/emii-committee-members/ but I’m not sure if it is our main crisis management community.

I wouldn’t mind going to some of the meetings (if there are any) to see what are the protocols and thinking behind how they manage these situations. Poor communication seems to be a serious deficiency (as Highlighted in https://www.ghsindex.org/country/ireland/ ) and all we got was a copy and paste (NHS) website from the HSE.

I’d love to understand the thought process behind this. I haven’t gotten any answers here as you got people just telling people to stop panicking. I didn’t read to many posts panicking, but there does seem to be an issue with people wanting to be educated on it being considered as troublesome.

Some day there will be a crisis in this country. I don’t mean a day or two of ice that caused the great Brennan’s bread crisis, I mean something serious. I suppose if I’m somebody that likes to understand it, I just want to see if there is a forum or open meeting I can attend to get more educated on it.

As I have said before it is largely up to each of us to deal with any situation that may arise. It is never any use relying on " authority" . Analyse the likely effects of any situation to your own life and make provision,
This is what we learned in the last War by the way. And it served us well.

No use panicking about panicking!

Snow Garden · 18-02-2020 12:25PM

Nonoperational wrote: »

Some people here weren't erring on the side of caution. I have no issue with that. We should of course be cautious. They were presenting clueless nonsense as fact and portraying themselves as exerts, quoting youtube videos and opinion pieces with absolute certainty as to their veracity. Those youtubers have made a pretty penny feeding on it.

This thread could be a superb thesis on the perils of social media for someone.

Yurt2 · 18-02-2020 12:30PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Does anybody know who is responsible for Ireland crisis management?

I found http://emii.ie/emii-committee-members/ but I’m not sure if it is our main crisis management community.

I wouldn’t mind going to some of the meetings (if there are any) to see what are the protocols and thinking behind how they manage these situations. Poor communication seems to be a serious deficiency (as Highlighted in https://www.ghsindex.org/country/ireland/ ) and all we got was a copy and paste (NHS) website from the HSE.

I’d love to understand the thought process behind this. I haven’t gotten any answers here as you got people just telling people to stop panicking. I didn’t read to many posts panicking, but there does seem to be an issue with people wanting to be educated on it being considered as troublesome.

Some day there will be a crisis in this country. I don’t mean a day or two of ice that caused the great Brennan’s bread crisis, I mean something serious. I suppose if I’m somebody that likes to understand it, I just want to see if there is a forum or open meeting I can attend to get more educated on it.

I think it is led by the Housing and planning Minister oddly enough. Thank goodness Eoghan Murphy has his sleeves pre-rolled up in anticipation of any disaster.

There's also a space, in Kildare Street I believe, called the National Emergency Co-ordination Centre, where Eoghan Murphy puts on an Air Corps bomber jacket and gets to pretend like he's the President from that movie Independence Day.

https://www.emergencyplanning.ie/en

SeaBreezes · 18-02-2020 12:31PM

Snow Garden wrote: »

This thread could be a superb thesis on the perils of social media for someone.

And the ‘experts’ who police it ...

Drumpot · 18-02-2020 12:32PM

Graces7 wrote: »

As I have said before it is largely up to each of us to deal with any situation that may arise. It is never any use relying on " authority" . Analyse the likely effects of any situation to your own life and make provision,
This is what we learned in the last War by the way. And it served us well.

No use panicking about panicking!

I agree, we are all responsible for our own on this. You can set up your own provisions and have your own plans in place but part of that that would help is knowing how the authorities will respond.

I will give you an example. My estate has flooded several times (not recently since a solution appears to of been finally supplied). Around the time it flooded a couple of times there was absolutely no real coordination and nobody "responsible" for communicating or leading the challenge to try and help secure the estate. We are a small estate so it wouldnt of taken too much resources to get some sort of order.

Firemen come and try to pump out the water. Council come and sit in diggers with nobody there to tell them what to do. Sand Bags dumped in an area and nobody told what should be done. I basically went out and started sandbagging random houses and seeing if neighbors would check on elderly.

I dont resent having to do this, I resent living in a society that places little resources into educating and encouraging people to prepare for different events. We also appear to take a "wait and see" (it will be grand) instead of a proactive approach with simple plans that everybody can follow. What I find really annoying is planning, preparing and communication are things we can actually address anytime.

My estate flooded several times and each time there was panic and no real authority or organisation to it. Thats just a small estate with a flooding issue. These are manageable things and while I agree its up to us as individuals to have our own crisis management plans, if everybody else (including authorities) doesn't, it can render our own plans relatively useless.

ohnonotgmail · 18-02-2020 12:32PM

Chart from an article on the BBC. Not good news for that british couple on the cruise ship

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51540981

SeaBreezes · 18-02-2020 12:33PM

Graces7 wrote: »

As I have said before it is largely up to each of us to deal with any situation that may arise. It is never any use relying on " authority" . Analyse the likely effects of any situation to your own life and make provision,
This is what we learned in the last War by the way. And it served us well.

No use panicking about panicking!

We’ll all be off to join you Graces

CrankyHaus · 18-02-2020 12:36PM

Yurt! wrote: »

I think it is led by the Housing and planning Minister oddly enough. Thank goodness Eoghan Murphy has his sleeves pre-rolled up in anticipation of any disaster.

There's also a space, in Kildare Street I believe, called the National Emergency Co-ordination Centre, where Eoghan Murphy puts on an Air Corps bomber jacket and gets to pretend like he's the President from that movie Independence Day.

https://www.emergencyplanning.ie/en

Is this what they were rolling out for the "Hurricane" last year, with Leo addressing the wounded nation flanked by a Garda and Soldier?

SeaBreezes · 18-02-2020 12:39PM

https://www.scmp.com/tech/science-research/article/3049858/race-diagnose-treat-coronavirus-patients-constrained-shortage

The accuracy rate of the test is only 30 to 50 per cent, said Wang Chen, president of the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, during a CCTV interview on Wednesday.

ohnonotgmail · 18-02-2020 12:44PM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

https://www.scmp.com/tech/science-research/article/3049858/race-diagnose-treat-coronavirus-patients-constrained-shortage

The accuracy rate of the test is only 30 to 50 per cent, said Wang Chen, president of the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, during a CCTV interview on Wednesday.

Due to the nature of the test there are a lot of false negatives. The test measures viral count but in the early stages the viral count is too low to register. Hence we hear of a lot of people who test negative who subsequently test positive.

saabsaab · 18-02-2020 01:04PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Due to the nature of the test there are a lot of false negatives. The test measures viral count but in the early stages the viral count is too low to register. Hence we hear of a lot of people who test negative who subsequently test positive.

Surely this should mean anyone coming from known areas be in strict quarantine and re-tested sometime later?

ohnonotgmail · 18-02-2020 01:08PM

saabsaab wrote: »

Surely this should mean anyone coming from known areas be in strict quarantine and re-tested sometime later?

it certainly does mean that.

volchitsa · 18-02-2020 01:14PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Very elderly man contracts deadly virus but is not entitled to sympathy because he is of the “wrong”political persuasion. Mmmmm...what does that remind me of?!? Behold, the now very famous tolerance and compassion of the left.

Except that's not what I said. Not at all.

Nijmegen · 18-02-2020 01:17PM

Drumpot wrote: »

My estate flooded several times and each time there was panic and no real authority or organisation to it. Thats just a small estate with a flooding issue. These are manageable things and while I agree its up to us as individuals to have our own crisis management plans, if everybody else (including authorities) doesn't, it can render our own plans relatively useless.

A lot of cultural differences in this. Several European countries have well thought through and widely drilled civil contingencies that involve both the state mobilising resources and citizens taking responsibility also. It tends to be driven by longstanding outside influences - The Dutch in relation to flooding and the Baltic countries in relation to war with Russia for example. (I read a really interesting piece about the latter example, where families have pre-planned contingencies so the people off fighting know what they are doing to stay safe and aren't distracted by the idea of them being in danger. Imagine living under those conditions!)

We just don't face existential threats and are a very individualistic nation full of, as you say, easygoing types. In the US they're paranoid about everything (and in fairness have enough natural disasters let alone manmade to make it worth considering) which is why local, state and federal agencies can mobilise in a big way and you'll regularly find individuals going around with survival kits in their cars. But they probably wouldn't be so quick to help one another out, of course...

I imagine things like climate change and viruses like this might change our approach. Eventually. After quite a few people are killed, of course, and there's an inquiry. Or two.

gozunda · 18-02-2020 01:26PM

Yurt! wrote: »

I think it is led by the Housing and planning Minister oddly enough. Thank goodness Eoghan Murphy has his sleeves pre-rolled up in anticipation of any disaster.

There's also a space, in Kildare Street I believe, called the National Emergency Co-ordination Centre, where Eoghan Murphy puts on an Air Corps bomber jacket and gets to pretend like he's the President from that movie Independence Day.

https://www.emergencyplanning.ie/en

Fairly standard Irish State level of information being provided on emergency planning there and elsewhere tbh - ie bugger all squared

According to the news this morning the Department of Foreign Affairs confirmed there are Irish citizens on board a cruise ship in Japan and the cruise ship in Cambodia (I presume among those not cleared for departure)

Asked whether there were any plans to evacuate them, a spokesperson said the department is "examining its options".

Yeah reckon that's deciding what type of biscuit options there are for the meetings that may be scheduled sometime somewhere ...

If it hits here our hospital and response services will be well and truely fooked and no fault of hard working frontline staff either ...

volchitsa · 18-02-2020 01:28PM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

They are American, so no.
I have deepest sympathy for ANYONE who gets this horrible virus.

Bit coincidental his wife has the virus, and he has similar symptoms but tests negative, no?

Not the same person then, the man I heard was definitely English and had voted for the Tories in the last election. I think he sounded younger too, actually.

But just to be clear, I was not saying "serve him right for voting Tory" (which would be mad, TBF, and is something I never thought anyone would be twisted enough to read into it).

I was saying that the guy didn't say he'd suddenly realized how incompetent the Tories were or anything - he was basically saying that he always knew how reckless they were with the lives of vulnerable people, but he voted for them anyway. Presumably being wealthy enough to go on cruises etc, he had never imagined that it would ever matter to him.

So now when he suddenly finds himself in a vulnerable situation, then he starts saying he has no confidence in Boris or the Tories. Shouldn't he have been able to put himself in other people's shoes a little bit before that?

That said, I still wouldn't wish any harm on him, just pointing out that voting for someone you know is dangerously reckless or incompetent, even if they're a good laugh, is never a good idea.

Nijmegen · 18-02-2020 01:30PM

The Department of Foreign Affairs managed to lose 2 letters from the UN about an ex-naval service ship that has found itself now fighting in the Libyan civil war for a militia. One wonders if urgent communiques about Irish citizens caught up in the virus outbreak aren't just floating around waiting for someone to do the quarterly check of the mailbox.

I'm looking to the UK foreign office for travel advice. The same as the Irish department of foreign affairs, I'd bet.

megatron989 · 18-02-2020 01:30PM

Drumpot wrote: »

I agree, we are all responsible for our own on this. You can set up your own provisions and have your own plans in place but part of that that would help is knowing how the authorities will respond.

I will give you an example. My estate has flooded several times (not recently since a solution appears to of been finally supplied). Around the time it flooded a couple of times there was absolutely no real coordination and nobody "responsible" for communicating or leading the challenge to try and help secure the estate. We are a small estate so it wouldnt of taken too much resources to get some sort of order.

Firemen come and try to pump out the water. Council come and sit in diggers with nobody there to tell them what to do. Sand Bags dumped in an area and nobody told what should be done. I basically went out and started sandbagging random houses and seeing if neighbors would check on elderly.

I dont resent having to do this, I resent living in a society that places little resources into educating and encouraging people to prepare for different events. We also appear to take a "wait and see" (it will be grand) instead of a proactive approach with simple plans that everybody can follow. What I find really annoying is planning, preparing and communication are things we can actually address anytime.

My estate flooded several times and each time there was panic and no real authority or organisation to it. Thats just a small estate with a flooding issue. These are manageable things and while I agree its up to us as individuals to have our own crisis management plans, if everybody else (including authorities) doesn't, it can render our own plans relatively useless.

Fair play, you already did more than most would have done. People should prepare to self rescue as much as possible. They only realise that fact after they find themselves in a situation where they need help and discover that the emergency services aren't like the Thunderbirds, they don't just materialize out of thin air. But if you are the sort to prepare for the unexpected your branded a crazy prepper here. Personally I'd always expect to only have myself to rely on, my plans always start with what I can do for myself before needing assistance.

Nijmegen · 18-02-2020 01:39PM

megatron989 wrote: »

Fair play, you already did more than most would have done. People should prepare to self rescue as much as possible. They only realise that fact after they find themselves in a situation where they need help and discover that the emergency services aren't like the Thunderbirds, they don't just materialize out of thin air. But if you are the sort to prepare for the unexpected your branded a crazy prepper here. Personally I'd always expect to only have myself to rely on, my plans always start with what I can do for myself before needing assistance.

In The Big Short, Michael Lewis describes one of the smaller capital firms who made big money on the financial crash as having an investment strategy based on the idea that humans don't like to think about bad things happening, and so inappropriately price the risk. By taking a realistic assessment, they were able to make big bucks off the housing market crash and other bad events.

Worst (best) case scenario you have a lot of batteries and tinned goods around the house you'll use anyway within their use by dates; plus a few odds and ends like a wind up radio that aren't going to bankrupt you.

Best (worst) case scenario you're better off than everyone you know who was scoffing at the idea. Tho maybe don't tell them you're prepping lest they come to raid your stock when they're caught short.

saabsaab · 18-02-2020 01:39PM

megatron989 wrote: »

Fair play, you already did more than most would have done. People should prepare to self rescue as much as possible. They only realise that fact after they find themselves in a situation where they need help and discover that the emergency services aren't like the Thunderbirds, they don't just materialize out of thin air. But if you are the sort to prepare for the unexpected your branded a crazy prepper here. Personally I'd always expect to only have myself to rely on, my plans always start with what I can do for myself before needing assistance.

I would say that country people are better at this that City dwellers.

gozunda · 18-02-2020 01:42PM

Graces7 wrote: »

As I have said before it is largely up to each of us to deal with any situation that may arise. It is never any use relying on " authority" . Analyse the likely effects of any situation to your own life and make provision, This is what we learned in the last War by the way. And it served us well. No use panicking about panicking!

To be fair it would be difficult for individuals to set up proper detection and quarantine services for both visitors or groups of people who may be infected.

It would also be fairly difficult for individuals to administer their own intensive care to themselves or access requirements for oxygen or other specislist care should that need arise. .

As to authorities providing stuff - that goes with the territory - with here providing largely free accommodation, general healthcare and a whole range of other services to those who cant afford it or otherwise (yeah thats not perfect either) .

The UK and Ireland during the 'last' war took control of food production and rationing, with strict controls being the norm. (not advocating that btw - just a reply about the above)

Tbh a kick up the arse to the state authorities here regarding some decent contingency planning wouldn't go amiss.

Heres another one

Fail to prepare - prepare to fail ...

SeaBreezes · 18-02-2020 02:05PM

volchitsa wrote: »

Not the same person then, the man I heard was definitely English and had voted for the Tories in the last election. I think he sounded younger too, actually.

But just to be clear, I was not saying "serve him right for voting Tory" (which would be mad, TBF, and is something I never thought anyone would be twisted enough to read into it).

I was saying that the guy didn't say he'd suddenly realized how incompetent the Tories were or anything - he was basically saying that he always knew how reckless they were with the lives of vulnerable people, but he voted for them anyway. Presumably being wealthy enough to go on cruises etc, he had never imagined that it would ever matter to him.

So now when he suddenly finds himself in a vulnerable situation, then he starts saying he has no confidence in Boris or the Tories. Shouldn't he have been able to put himself in other people's shoes a little bit before that?

That said, I still wouldn't wish any harm on him, just pointing out that voting for someone you know is dangerously reckless or incompetent, even if they're a good laugh, is never a good idea.

Empathy is always a welcome trait in people.

new coronavirus outbreak China, Korea, USA - mod warnings in OP (updated 24/02/20)

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