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Jordan Peterson interview on C4

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Comments

  • #4832
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,714 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    20Cent wrote: »
    Whats your solution to the bathroom and changing room conundrum by the way you never said.

    Hahaha..


  • #4833
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    20Cent wrote: »
    It's a journal article written for people who study critical thought in the arts and humanities not for a general audience. People who study that will understand it.

    I can guarantee you that they won't. It's designed to create the impression that the author is incredibly intelligent and profound — but in reality it's just obscurantist verbiage.


  • #4834
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    I can guarantee you that they won't. It's designed to create the impression that the author is incredibly intelligent and profound — but in reality it's just obscurantist verbiage.

    He is well respected in his field.
    Take bits from any discipline journal and they will be making references and using words/language that are particular to that audience.

    Anyway wouldn't be mocking him in favor of someone who uses lobsters as metaphors for humans different league. Like comparing Shakespeare to fox news.


  • #4835
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    20Cent wrote: »
    He is well respected in his field.

    Argument from authority.

    You clearly have absolutely no idea what any of the above passage means. You're assuming, because he's allegedly "well respected in his field," that he's saying something more intelligent and meaningful than Peterson — when he's really just churning out nonsensical pseudo-profundities.


  • #4836
    buried
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,975 ✭✭✭buried


    The one thing I've always admired about Peterson was his capacity to discuss the darkest most chaotic nature of the universal human condition. That every single person on this planet was just a brain tissue tear away from going completely rogue and into the realms of absolute total Hell. This can happen to anyone. The brain is capable of all sorts of moves totally out of it's hosts ultimate control. Peterson has always discussed this fact. So credit is due to him there. You won't find many other people courting celebrity or fame that will actually say or discuss this.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



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  • #4837
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,328 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    20Cent wrote: »
    He causes debate because he doesn't actually explain his opinions just makes statements and leaves them hanging there.

    What 'statement' has be made in the past few months?


  • #4838
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    Argument from authority.

    You clearly have absolutely no idea what any of the above passage means. You're just assuming, because he's allegedly "well respected in his field," that he's saying something more intelligent and meaningful than Peterson — when he's really just churning out nonsensical pseudo-profundities.

    Nothing alleged about it, he publishes many book, journal articles and films. He has had directorships of departments, professorships and many prizes. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's nonsense.


  • #4839
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    markodaly wrote: »
    What 'statement' has be made in the past few months?

    Hasn't he been ill the last while, why say last few months?

    For example he is asked about sexual harassment in the workplace. His reply is about women wearing makeup. The interviewer tries to ascertain what his answer means or what we should take from it, he doesn't.


  • #4840
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,714 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    20Cent wrote: »
    Nothing alleged about it, he publishes many book, journal articles and films. He has had directorships of departments, professorships and many prizes. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's nonsense.

    Aaarghh hahahahaha haha haha...


  • #4841
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    20Cent wrote: »
    Nothing alleged about it, he publishes many book, journal articles and films. He has had directorships of departments, professorships and many prizes.

    More appeals to authority.
    Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's nonsense.

    Michel Foucault himself said that Jacques Derrida practiced a method that he called obscurantisme terroriste, which he explained as follows: "[Derrida] writes so obscurely you can't tell what he's saying. That's the obscurantism part. And then when you criticize him, he can always say, 'You didn't understand me; you're an idiot.' That's the terrorism part."

    Numerous so-called critical theorists have followed in Derrida's methodological footsteps, Žižek among them. The goal is to write so obscurely that one can create the impression of profundity, but can also avoid criticism by always being able to claim that the reader has misunderstood.

    This is the type of neo-Marxist nonsense that Peterson is absolutely right to challenge.


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  • #4842
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    More appeals to authority.



    Michel Foucault himself said that Jacques Derrida practiced a method that he called obscurantisme terroriste, which he explained as follows: "[Derrida] writes so obscurely you can't tell what he's saying. That's the obscurantism part. And then when you criticize him, he can always say, 'You didn't understand me; you're an idiot.' That's the terrorism part."

    Numerous so-called critical theorists have followed in Derrida's methodological footsteps, Žižek among them. The goal is to write so obscurely that one can create the impression of profundity, but can also avoid criticism by always being able to claim that the reader has misunderstood.

    This is the type of neo-Marxist nonsense that Peterson is absolutely right to challenge.

    Success in his field is hardly an appeal to authority.

    He has written other books in more simple plain terms that you might understand. They would be more accessible than the academic journals. As with any discipline.


  • #4843
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    20Cent wrote: »
    Success in his field is hardly an appeal to authority.

    Pointing out how many books he has written, professorships he has held, and prizes he has won is the very definition of appeal to authority.
    He has written other books in more simple plain terms that you might understand.

    So says the poster who refuses to explain even one sentence quoted above from this allegedly oh-so-brilliant professor.


  • #4844
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    Pointing out how many books he has written, professorships he has held, and prizes he has won is the very definition of appeal to authority.



    So says the poster who refuses to explain even one sentence quoted above from this allegedly oh-so-brilliant professor.

    Publications and citations are the normal judges for assessing an academics influence. Appeal to authority could be applied to anyone.

    Any journal article will have field specific language in it and references the lay person won't understand. They are written for an audience versed in it.


  • #4845
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    buried wrote: »
    The one thing I've always admired about Peterson was his capacity to discuss the darkest most chaotic nature of the universal human condition.

    Agreed. He has spoken about the need to accept our tortured mortality. That's a trait we also see in Shakespeare, Milton, Dostoevsky, Dickinson, and other Western writers that the postmodern Marxists feel obliged to disparage.

    The empty, pseudo-profound verbal diarrhoea offered up by arrogant ideologues like Žižek offers nothing whatsoever to anyone attempting to come to terms with the human condition.


  • #4846
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Tony EH wrote: »
    More people discussing the issue? People feel that it's less of a taboo subject to broach and are willing to talk about it more openly.

    And, frankly, the internet makes it seem more prevalent than it actually is.

    However, I certainly don't believe that there are men getting their dicks chopped off cos they think it's a cool thing to do. Certainly not in any numbers anyway.

    There indeed probably isn’t more men getting their genitals chopped off because that’s not required now with self ID (which we have in Ireland as far as I know). I posted a video in this thread of a transwoman who called herself a lesbian despite not having surgery or getting any type of treatment.


  • #4847
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    Agreed. He has spoken about the need to accept our tortured mortality. That's a trait we also see in Shakespeare, Milton, Dostoevsky, Dickinson, and other Western writers that the postmodern Marxists feel obliged to disparage.

    The empty, pseudo-profound verbal diarrhoea offered up by arrogant ideologues like Žižek offers nothing whatsoever to anyone attempting to come to terms with the human condition.

    For a fella that thinks Ayn Rand is a genius and an intellectual you will forgive me for not holding your opinions on books and ideas very highly.


  • #4848
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,714 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ah Zizek can be good at times..what I took from the debate between himself and Peterson was that they actually agreed on quite a bit, and both saw the common enemy as the political correct fascism encroaching on our culture, exemplified here by the likes of 20cent..


  • #4849
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    20Cent wrote: »
    For a fella that thinks Ayn Rand is a genius and an intellectual you will forgive me for not holding your opinions on books and ideas very highly.

    Great effort to change the subject — are you doing this because of your self-discrediting inability to explain one single sentence written by someone you assure us is a brilliant intellectual?


  • #4850
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    Argument from authority.

    You clearly have absolutely no idea what any of the above passage means. You're assuming, because he's allegedly "well respected in his field," that he's saying something more intelligent and meaningful than Peterson — when he's really just churning out nonsensical pseudo-profundities.

    People have made the same argument in defence of Peterson in this thread - “He has X number of journal articles written, he must know what he’s talking about” even though he speaks outside his area of expertise too.


  • #4851
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ah Zizek can be good at times..what I took from the debate between himself and Peterson was that they actually agreed on quite a bit, and both saw the common enemy as the political correct fascism encroaching on our culture, exemplified here by the likes of 20cent..

    I don't think the law should compel people to use pronouns or whatever. Call people what you like and take whatever criticism results like a grown up.

    Tidy your room as well before posting.


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  • #4852
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Aaarghh hahahahaha haha haha...

    Second time you’re responded to somebody like this in this thread AND you have also claimed that anyone who criticises Peterson doesn’t understand him much like that poster has said about Zizek. Hypocrite, much?


  • #4853
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,714 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    20Cent wrote: »
    Tidy your room as well before posting.

    Stop oppressing me!!


  • #4854
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    Great effort to change the subject — are you doing this because of your self-discrediting inability to explain one single sentence written by someone you assure us is a brilliant intellectual?

    Not in the field so wouldn't understand that particular quote. It uses a lot of language and references I'm not familiar with like most journal articles. This is a very silly road to be going down by the way.


  • #4855
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Stop oppressing me!!

    Isn't that Peterson's argument?
    That you shouldn't comment on society or anything unless your own life is in order. Bit ironic now all things considered.


  • #4856
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,714 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    Second time you’re responded to somebody like this in this thread AND you have also claimed that anyone who criticises Peterson doesn’t understand him much like that poster has said about Zizek. Hypocrite, much?

    Well..to see 20cent resorting to that in defense of Zizek, while he doesn't see how the same is relevant to Peterson is actually funny..

    And when he brought up the toilet issue again after ignoring quite a bit was funny too...


  • #4857
    buried
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,975 ✭✭✭buried


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    Agreed. He has spoken about the need to accept our tortured mortality. That's a trait we also see in Shakespeare, Milton, Dostoevsky, Dickinson, and other Western writers that the postmodern Marxists feel obliged to disparage.

    The empty, pseudo-profound verbal diarrhoea offered up by arrogant ideologues like Žižek offers nothing whatsoever to anyone attempting to come to terms with the human condition.

    Ahh I wouldn't be that harsh on auld Žižek in that aspect either, he's done some commentary on the likes of modern artistic creators such as David Lynch who have also touched on these themes of the darkest aspect of the human condition.

    No point in anybody looking at any of this as a battle ground. Both people have good points to make on a wide scope. It's good. It's a hell of a lot better listening to the two of these people discussing things than the majority of vapid trash that gets peddled into peoples brains on a daily basis.

    Just have to find a balance within it all I think.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • #4858
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    20Cent wrote: »
    Not in the field so wouldn't understand that particular quote. It uses a lot of language and references I'm not familiar with like most journal articles. This is a very silly road to be going down by the way.

    It's not a silly road at all. It gets right to the heart of the problem — the disturbing levels of reverence that people have for postmodern BS artists such as Žižek, who fill books and articles with pseudo-profound nonsense that their adoring acolytes believe is somehow more meaningful and relevant than the genuinely important writers and philosophers of the past.

    Anyone who spends too much time reading this kind of tripe won't be able to think clearly about anything, which of course is the goal.


  • #4859
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Well..to see 20cent resorting to that in defense of Zizek, while he doesn't see how the same is relevant to Peterson is actually funny..

    And when he brought up the toilet issue again after ignoring quite a bit was funny too...

    I don't claim people don't understand him just that he doesn't actually say anything.

    Tell me something profound and insightful he has said.


  • #4860
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    It's not a silly road at all. It gets right to the heart of the problem — the disturbing levels of reverence that people have for postmodern BS artists such as Žižek, who fill books and articles with pseudo-profound nonsense that their adoring acolytes believe is somehow more meaningful and relevant than the genuinely important writers and philosophers of the past.

    Anyone who spends too much time reading this kind of tripe won't be able to think clearly about anything, which of course is the goal.

    There's another forum for conspiracy theories on this website somewhere.


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  • #4861
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,714 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    20Cent wrote: »
    Tell me something profound and insightful he has said.

    Lobsters' nervous systems are designed to respond to a heirarchical social structure in much the same way as ours are..

    And..just to be clear..I am claiming you don't understand him..


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