Jordan Peterson interview on C4

17-02-2020 11:04PM

Penn wrote: »

Yes. From conception, as the child grows from a clump of cells to a child, it's possible for the brain to develop with female characteristics .

pretty sure that was debunked a while ago?
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/feb/24/meet-the-neuroscientist-shattering-the-myth-of-the-gendered-brain-gina-rippon

20Cent · 17-02-2020 11:05PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I actually think it's some weird subject-object distortion.. like, beautiful women have been put on pedestals in our culture, and kind of been worshiped..I think it's a distortion of identification where the person wants to become the object of such adoration..

And I think there's a more societal thing now where it's just another label.. people are very quick to label themselves and to try to find something to identify as, that might explain why they're not happy and are kind of anxious..and this is the latest.. like to be cutting edge (pardon the pun) now in your late teens you probably have to have gender issues..

I think the movement pushing it politically is purely sinister..

So they are faking it?

Pretty extreme thing to do for attention.

17-02-2020 11:05PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Probably refers to their Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory (or in Peterson's nomenclature 'Postmodern Neomarxism') trying to destroy western civilisation from within or some shit.

Well, why does it seem to be pushed by the same political factions?

Tony EH · 17-02-2020 11:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I actually think it's some weird subject-object distortion.. like, beautiful women have been put on pedestals in our culture, and kind of been worshiped..I think it's a distortion of identification where the person wants to become the object of such adoration..

And I think there's a more societal thing now where it's just another label.. people are very quick to label themselves and to try to find something to identify as, that might explain why they're not happy and are kind of anxious..and this is the latest.. like to be cutting edge (pardon the pun) now in your late teens you probably have to have gender issues..

I think the movement pushing it politically is purely sinister..

Wait...you think transgender people are faking it because they want to be hip?

17-02-2020 11:07PM

Penn wrote: »

No, because that's f*cking stupid because it's not possible. It is possible between male and female though for the reasons I stated above.

You used possible a lot. This theory of yours been proven somewhere?

"Chimps, Humans 96 Percent the Same, Gene Study Finds"

""The goal is to answer the basic question: What makes us humans?" said Eichler.

"Scientists also discovered that some classes of genes are changing unusually quickly in both humans and chimpanzees, as compared with other mammals. These classes include genes involved in the perception of sound, transmission of nerve signals, and the production of sperm."

"Eichler and his colleagues found that the human and chimp sequences differ by only 1.2 percent in terms of single-nucleotide changes to the genetic code.

But 2.7 percent of the genetic difference between humans and chimps are duplications, in which segments of genetic code are copied many times in the genome."

17-02-2020 11:08PM

Maybe if there's a discrepancy between your mental state and your physical body you're mentally ill as opposed to being in the wrong body..

17-02-2020 11:09PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Wait...you think transgender people are faking it because they want to be hip?

How would you explain it's rise of late?

20Cent · 17-02-2020 11:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

How would you explain it's rise of late?

More people coming out because it is more socially acceptable than the past.
Same as with homosexuality.

Tony EH · 17-02-2020 11:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

How would you explain it's rise of late?

I don't see much of a "rise". To much time on the internet may give you that impression.

But seriously, you think transgender people are doing something for a fad? Really?

20Cent · 17-02-2020 11:13PM

bluewolf wrote: »

pretty sure that was debunked a while ago?
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/feb/24/meet-the-neuroscientist-shattering-the-myth-of-the-gendered-brain-gina-rippon

What do you think the reason is?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 17-02-2020 11:24PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Wait...you think transgender people are faking it because they want to be hip?

I think there is research happening on social contagion in teenagers when it comes to transgenderism or at least somebody wants to study it.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 17-02-2020 11:27PM

Tony EH wrote: »

I don't see much of a "rise". To much time on the internet may give you that impression.

But seriously, you think transgender people are doing something for a fad? Really?

Look at the increase in numbers referred to the Tavistock clinic over the last decade or so.

Tony EH · 17-02-2020 11:27PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I think there is research happening on social contagion in teenagers when it comes to transgenderism or at least somebody wants to study it.

There's a difference between somebody studying it or people being more open to transgender people's wishes...

...and people wanting to transgender cos they think it's cool.

Tony EH · 17-02-2020 11:29PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Look at the increase in numbers referred to the Tavistock clinic over the last decade or so.

Again though. I don't think it's that much of a "rise". I don't think we're going to be swamped by transgender people any time soon.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 17-02-2020 11:31PM

Tony EH wrote: »

There's a difference between somebody studying it or people being more open to transgender people's wishes...

...and people wanting to transgender cos they think it's cool.

Well, if there is an element of social contagion, what would be driving that?

17-02-2020 11:33PM

Deleted User wrote: »

How would you explain it's rise of late?

Well, it's not permanent is it anymore? Before the definition was pretty exclusive to people who had done the transition through surgery or hormonal treatments. So a long, painful and expensive procedure which would turn off a lot of people from committing to it.

But now Transgender includes people who can change their Gender whenever they want. Flip back and forth depending on how they feel.

So, the numbers are going to rise in a major way because they don't need to drastically change their lives to do it. In the case of those undergoing actual procedures, I think the increase was something like 20%. Don't have the article on hand now, but I found it on a google search so shouldn't be hard to find.

Junkyard Tom · 17-02-2020 11:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, why does it seem to be pushed by the same political factions?

As Zizek said to Peterson [paraphrasing] 'who are these people pushing Postmodern Neo-Marxism'?

What political factions exactly?

20Cent · 17-02-2020 11:35PM

Same argument was made about homosexuality.
They are just doing it for attention or because it's "cool" or similar nonsense.

Tony EH · 17-02-2020 11:37PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Well, if there is an element of social contagion, what would be driving that?

More people discussing the issue? People feel that it's less of a taboo subject to broach and are willing to talk about it more openly.

And, frankly, the internet makes it seem more prevalent than it actually is.

However, I certainly don't believe that there are men getting their dicks chopped off cos they think it's a cool thing to do. Certainly not in any numbers anyway.

17-02-2020 11:41PM

Tony EH wrote: »

More people discussing the issue? People feel that it's less of a taboo subject to broach and are willing to talk about it more openly.

And, frankly, the internet makes it seem more prevalent than it actually is.

However, I certainly don't believe that there are men getting their dicks chopped off cos they think it's a cool thing to do. Certainly not in any numbers anyway.

What would you define transgender as? Who is covered under the term?

I tried asking 20Cent but he skipped over the question. Seems to me that the term has expanded in scope in recent years,... would you agree?

AllForIt · 17-02-2020 11:45PM

Gynoid wrote: »

I mean did you ever think you would see the day when a senior UK politician says on a mainstream tv program that babies have no sex.
It is fcuking bewildering what we have arrived at.

The same woman who a few years ago argued giving woman lighter sentences, non-custodial sentences ,where a man would get one - because woman who are involved in crime are associated with men. Thank God Labour plonked in the last election.

20Cent · 17-02-2020 11:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What would you define transgender as? Who is covered under the term?

I tried asking 20Cent but he skipped over the question. Seems to me that the term has expanded in scope in recent years,... would you agree?

The American Psychological Association uses this definition:

Transgender: An umbrella term encompassing those whose gender identities or gender roles differ from those typically associated with the sex they were assigned at birth.

Tony EH · 17-02-2020 11:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What would you define transgender as? Who is covered under the term?

I tried asking 20Cent but he skipped over the question. Seems to me that the term has expanded in scope in recent years,... would you agree?

I'm not sure it has to be honest and if there are some people who wish to expand it, I think they are very much a minority group. But, their will always be people who wish to expand terms to what they feel they should be expanded to. I'm sure bisexual people came in for some flak when they wanted their terms to be accepted.

As for what I determine it as, I can only say from meeting the few that I've met that it's transitioning from a gender to another.

However, that doesn't mean that there's been a "rise" or that these people are engaging in a life changing activity for the luls.

markodaly · 18-02-2020 12:03AM

OP here.

Over two years on and still people are triggered by Peterson.
The guy afaik is in rehab and has been out of the public spotlight for more or less the past year, yet people are still triggered by him and his opinions?

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 18-02-2020 12:06AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

As Zizek said to Peterson [paraphrasing] 'who are these people pushing Postmodern Neo-Marxism'?

Žižek is one of these people himself, his "philosophy" apparently being some kind of obscurantist synthesis of Marx, Hegel, and Jacques Lacan's gnomic psychoanalysis.

Here's an excerpt:

"The ultimate paradox of Christianity is obliterated in what poses today as melancholic, postsecular thought, the stance that finds its ultimate expression in a certain kind of Derridean appropriation of Levinas. In this, one fully concedes that modernist critique undermined the foundations of onto-theology, the notion of God as the supreme entity, and so forth. However, what if the ultimate outcome of this deconstructive gesture is to clear the slate for a new postdeconstructionist and indeconstructible form of spirituality, for the relationship to an unconditional Otherness that precedes ontology? What if the fundamental experience of the human subject is not that of the self-presence, of the force of dialectical mediation-appropriation of all Otherness, but that of a primordial passivity, sentience, of responding, of being infinitely indebted and responsible to the call of an Otherness that never acquires positive features but always remains withdrawn, the trace of its own absence?"

Maybe some of the Žižek fans can decipher the above and tell us what it means?

20Cent · 18-02-2020 12:13AM

markodaly wrote: »

OP here.

Over two years on and still people are triggered by Peterson.
The guy afaik is in rehab and has been out of the public spotlight for more or less the past year, yet people are still triggered by him and his opinions?

He causes debate because he doesn't actually explain his opinions just makes statements and leaves them hanging there.

suicide_circus · 18-02-2020 12:13AM

word salad

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 18-02-2020 12:17AM

20Cent wrote: »

He causes debate because he doesn't actually explain his opinions just makes statements and leaves them hanging there.

Care to take a crack at the Žižek passage above, 20Cent? Unless you can convince me otherwise, this feels like churning out reams of pseudo-profound verbiage. Peterson is far clearer.

20Cent · 18-02-2020 12:19AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

word salad

It's a journal article written for people who study critical thought in the arts and humanities not for a general audience. People who study that will understand it. Maybe he should get south park to make a version for the Peterson fans.

20Cent · 18-02-2020 12:20AM

Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »

Care to take a crack at the Žižek passage above, 20Cent? Unless you can convince me otherwise, this feels like churning out reams of pseudo-profound verbiage. Peterson is far clearer.

Peterson is far clearer yes.
Simple even.

Whats your solution to the bathroom and changing room conundrum by the way you never said.

Jordan Peterson interview on C4

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