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What have we come to

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  • #2552
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    this is bull****, its all about choices! want to cut pension age down to 65? no problem, dont increase the weekly pension by E25 over the next 5 years as proposed by FFG. So increasing the current rate is sustainable and good practice, but freezing it and brining it back down 65 isnt?

    The LPT that brings in a pittance and is abused? abolish it, 500,000,000 a year, they'll blow that on a welfare increase instead, if its still there... the irony that the SF proposals, actually were better policies for workers, than that of FFG! :rolleyes:

    What happened to FFG plan to scrap USC? SF want to do that for many voters. You just dont get to blow that money that you bring in now USC to a threshold and LPT on ****e. I trade off I am very happy with

    101 politics!!

    Ok so when you drop all of what SF said they would, along with Carbon tax where does the money come from? The land of magic?

    Plus as we have no carbon tax where is money coming to pay for the CO2 fines? Land of magic again?

    Also seemingly going to raise the tax bracket for the people who earn less, so less tax coming in as well

    Plus they are going to hire loads of doctors and nurses, plus Garda....who is paying for them?

    The manifesto is a pile of muck, nothing adds up, it was pulled to shreads in a few mins by everyone

    No idea why you think SF is better for the worker, the only way they can pay for all of this is tax the sh*t out of anyone with a decent wage


  • #2553
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,447 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    101 politics!!

    Ok so when you drop all of what SF said they would, along with Carbon tax where does the money come from? The land of magic?

    Plus as we have no carbon tax where is money coming to pay for the CO2 fines? Land of magic again?

    Also seemingly going to raise the tax bracket for the people who earn less, so less tax coming in as well

    Plus they are going to hire loads of doctors and nurses, plus Garda....who is paying for them?

    The manifesto is a pile of muck, nothing adds up, it was pulled to shreads in a few mins by everyone

    No idea why you think SF is better for the worker, the only way they can pay for all of this is tax the sh*t out of anyone with a decent wage

    sure didnt FFG say they would abolish USC etc :rolleyes: You cant actually believe their manifestors, but what they will give you, in an insight into direction and policies. Abolishing LPT, reducing pension age to 65 and abolition of usc up to a point, is absolutely no problem and I bet you that this coming budget, they will squander more than they money to achieve those outcomes, by blowing it in a different way, its a zero sum game


  • #2554
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,447 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Heard the end of newstalk with some expert saying in 2 years whoever is in power will reap the benefits of housing policies been implemented in the last few years.

    There is a huge amounts of social housing started on top of the most in the last 30 years due to be finished this year.

    Before people jump down my throat it's what I heard and not my opinion.

    Things are happening but wasn't quick enough for the electorate.

    They want houses overnight.

    LOL! LOL! go look at another thread on this forum about the waiting list for free housing! Supply is increasing hugely, but that doesnt in itself lead to price cuts, prices rocketed during the boom, when supply was insane! Affordability isnt addressed, its just so bloody obvious, I have been saying it for ages and now nearly every second media article you read about it, says the same thing. Its affordability that is a key issue, no plans to do anything about it from FFG from what I can see... So say they were able to pull an extra fifty thousand units out of their ass for dublin next year, the problem is with the current build cost and tax take from the government, the vast majority still wouldnt be able to afford them...


  • #2555
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    sure didnt FFG say they would abolish USC etc :rolleyes: You cant actually believe their manifestors, but what they will give you, in an insight into direction and policies. Abolishing LPT, reducing pension age to 65 and abolition of usc up to a point, is absolutely no problem and I bet you that this coming budget, they will squander more than they money to achieve those outcomes, by blowing it in a different way, its a zero sum game

    Why should one believe The Ra's manifesto and not FFG's?


  • #2556
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,447 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Why should one believe The Ra's manifesto and not FFG's?

    I dont, but you cant believe FFG either... there is no issue financially with getting rid of LPT, and USC up to a point or lowering pension age to 65 again. You just make a choice not to spend that money on other areas. The issue is here always, the money follows the votes, policy follows the votes and its an insane way to governm a country, the chickens will come home to roost


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  • #2557
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    I dont, but you cant believe FFG either... there is no issue financially with getting rid of LPT, and USC up to a point or lowering pension age to 65 again. You just make a choice not to spend that money on other areas. The issue is here always, the money follows the votes, policy follows the votes and its an insane way to governm a country, the chickens will come home to roost

    That's democracy. You just take a punt on whichever party you think is most aligned with your needs and/or your principles. No manifesto will be implemented so all you can do is hope they don't destroy the economy and they give people what they deserve.


  • #2558
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,447 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    That's democracy. You just take a punt on whichever party you think is most aligned with your needs and/or your principles. No manifesto will be implemented so all you can do is hope they don't destroy the economy and they give people what they deserve.

    thats a big issue here in my opinion, far too many getting more than they deserve and a large amount, getting screwed, to pay for it all!


  • #2559
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    thats a big issue here in my opinion, far too many getting more than they deserve and a large amount, getting screwed, to pay for it all!

    I agree. Won't change much whoever gets in though. It's systematic.


  • #2560
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,875 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Housing needs to be nationalized to be resolved. The private sector is never going to fix the problem because they only want to profit from building.


    It’s not complicated. For the government to solve the housing problem they need to build public housing on public land. Not Sell the land off cheap to have a developer do it where they release enough units at a time to the market that keeps the price high and gifts 10% of the houses to the state.


    FFG are buddy buddy with developers, this will never change. They would sooner rent hotel rooms and pay private landlords millions through HAP than build a stock of houses that they own because the people that will lose the most are builders and developers.


  • #2561
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Housing needs to be nationalized to be resolved. The private sector is never going to fix the problem because they only want to profit from building.


    It’s not complicated. For the government to solve the housing problem they need to build public housing on public land. Not Sell the land off cheap to have a developer do it where they release enough units at a time to the market that keeps the price high and gifts 10% of the houses to the state.


    FFG are buddy buddy with developers, this will never change. They would sooner rent hotel rooms and pay private landlords millions through HAP than build a stock of houses that they own because the people that will lose the most are builders and developers.


    Who is going to build the houses?

    At the moment the private sector doesn't have enough trades people so you want to kick off another sector to rival it?

    Which land was sold off cheap to developers?


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  • #2562
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,461 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Housing needs to be nationalized to be resolved. The private sector is never going to fix the problem because they only want to profit from building.


    It’s not complicated. For the government to solve the housing problem they need to build public housing on public land. Not Sell the land off cheap to have a developer do it where they release enough units at a time to the market that keeps the price high and gifts 10% of the houses to the state.


    FFG are buddy buddy with developers, this will never change. They would sooner rent hotel rooms and pay private landlords millions through HAP than build a stock of houses that they own because the people that will lose the most are builders and developers.

    More of the same hackneyed rubbish.


  • #2563
    bladespin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,435 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    More of the same hackneyed rubbish.

    It may be hackneyed but is it far from the truth? Years and years of backhanders, dodgy planning and cartels have led to this, a change of approach is definitely needed, doesn’t matter if it’s the old club or the new but someone has to fix it.
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  • #2564
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,875 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Who is going to build the houses?

    At the moment the private sector doesn't have enough trades people so you want to kick off another sector to rival it?

    Which land was sold off cheap to developers?


    Builders.
    Who is building houses currently? The capacity to build is an issue if houses are built publicly or privately, but at least when the government builds houses they own the asset instead of housing lining the pockets of banks and builders and 100% of those houses can go to satisfy the growing housing shortage among the social welfare dependent that are costing massive money to house in temporary accommodation.


  • #2565
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,875 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    More of the same hackneyed rubbish.

    Elaborate.


  • #2566
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,875 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    bladespin wrote: »
    It may be hackneyed but is it far from the truth? Years and years of backhanders, dodgy planning and cartels have led to this, a change of approach is definitely needed, doesn’t matter if it’s the old club or the new but someone has to fix it.



    Exactly.
    At the moment developers control the housing market. They control supply so they control price. If they buyers are not available to pay the price they want, they reduce supply.

    Developers have no interest in resolving the housing crisis,In fact it suits them that it exists, they only care to get the most amount of money that’s possible for every unit they build. The central bank lending rules are the only control that exist on house prices.


  • #2567
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,461 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Elaborate.

    No need to, just the same old worn out rhetoric prevalent for the last four years.

    Same old same old...you got an alleged problem.... grow a pair an instead of trundling out the same old rubbish, get out and sort it.

    Your lot have been claiming you can for long enough.


    Time to come out from under your slates.


  • #2568
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,875 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    No need to, just the same old worn out rhetoric prevalent for the last four years.

    Same old same old...you got an alleged problem.... grow a pair an instead of trundling out the same old rubbish, get out and sort it.

    Your lot have been claiming you can for long enough.


    Time to come out from under your slates.

    Not worthy of a response.


  • #2569
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,179 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Sure didn't Mary Lou say the lads in oz and NZ will come back to build the houses for the forever home brigade because they just will!!

    Of course they will....

    And where will they live while their building these houses??


  • #2570
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,179 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Builders.
    Who is building houses currently? The capacity to build is an issue if houses are built publicly or privately, but at least when the government builds houses they own the asset instead of housing lining the pockets of banks and builders and 100% of those houses can go to satisfy the growing housing shortage among the social welfare dependent that are costing massive money to house in temporary accommodation.

    And who will build the houses for the people who want mortgages and pay their own way in life?

    Sure they done matter do they?


  • #2571
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Builders.
    Who is building houses currently? The capacity to build is an issue if houses are built publicly or privately, but at least when the government builds houses they own the asset instead of housing lining the pockets of banks and builders and 100% of those houses can go to satisfy the growing housing shortage among the social welfare dependent that are costing massive money to house in temporary accommodation.

    Maybe you had an issue reading the first time

    Yes try again

    The country does not have enough tradesmen at the moment to provide the private market so which “builder” are going to suddenly appear for the public sector?

    You seem to have forgot to answer the section about land sold off cheap? Could you point me
    In that direction?

    Who is paying for all these houses you are building and buying land for? Also the maintenance as the people who standard rent these houses don’t keep them in greatest standard, rent is another issue. SF know all about not paying rent as well.,,,,


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  • #2572
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,461 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Maybe you had an issue reading the first time

    Yes try again

    The country does not have enough tradesmen at the moment to provide the private market so which “builder” are going to suddenly appear for the public sector?

    You seem to have forgot to answer the section about land sold off cheap? Could you point me
    In that direction?

    Who is paying for all these houses you are building and buying land for? Also the maintenance as the people who standard rent these houses don’t keep them in greatest standard, rent is another issue. SF know all about not paying rent as well.,,,,

    Seems to have more issues than reading, it seems to me.

    Lot of the same hackneyed puff being pumped out.

    Seems to forget the ball is now in their court.


  • #2573
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,875 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Maybe you had an issue reading the first time

    Yes try again

    The country does not have enough tradesmen at the moment to provide the private market so which “builder” are going to suddenly appear for the public sector?

    You seem to have forgot to answer the section about land sold off cheap? Could you point me
    In that direction?

    Who is paying for all these houses you are building and buying land for? Also the maintenance as the people who standard rent these houses don’t keep them in greatest standard, rent is another issue. SF know all about not paying rent as well.,,,,


    Already answered.
    If you think FFG can maintain their approach to housing in an effort to resolve a crisis that has only worsened Ten fold under their watch you need to look up the dictionary definition of stupidity.


  • #2574
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Already answered.
    If you think FFG can maintain their approach to housing in an effort to resolve a crisis that has only worsened Ten fold under their watch you need to look up the dictionary definition of stupidity.


    haha....just ignore the fact that the country hasn't enough tradesmen to build private houses but they will suddenly appear to build private and public houses :P


    So how will you hire tradesmen from private builders? give them more money than the private builder? so drive up the cost of building the houses for the government?

    Which in turn will drive up the cost of private housing, which will overheat the economy and BOOM.....

    I have no need for snide little comments.....

    Still waiting on the confirmation of this cheap land sold off to builders.....Im sure it is coming anytime now


  • #2575
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    Seems to have more issues than reading, it seems to me.

    Lot of the same hackneyed puff being pumped out.

    Seems to forget the ball is now in their court.


    Pure fantasy land, but sure everything from SF is in fantasy land.....clown posting all over facebook about how SF "won" the election....absolute idiots


  • #2576
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,461 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Pure fantasy land, but sure everything from SF is in fantasy land.....clown posting all over facebook about how SF "won" the election....absolute idiots

    Well and truly exposed S, and notice how quiet those bullhorn boys have gone.

    Not so much air in their tyres now.


  • #2577
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    Well and truly exposed S, and notice how quiet those bullhorn boys have gone.

    Not so much air in their tyres now.

    It’s not hard to pick holes, the holes are the size of Grand Canyon

    Still open Facebook this evening and you have the same SF propaganda floating around from the same clowns!!!


  • #2578
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    If FG are going into opposition and FF reluctant to go into government it's hard not to see another general election coming down the track soon.


  • #2579
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    holyhead wrote: »
    If FG are going into opposition and FF reluctant to go into government it's hard not to see another general election coming down the track soon.

    Well doing the round now is 100000 SF voters want to march to stop a FF/FG government....nobody told the clowns FG doesn’t want it either

    It looks like deflection isn’t working anymore for SF and they will have to step up....


  • #2580
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,224 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    nobody told the clowns FG doesn’t want it either

    Until the parliamentary meeting next week that is.


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  • #2581
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Until the parliamentary meeting next week that is.

    The 6 hour one they had today you mean and said they would go into opposition???


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