What have we come to

maccored · 17-02-2020 04:24AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Some keep saying there is no change.

But it is a fact that house building is ramping up now and there will be much more supply in the next two years.

Shinner voters seem to think all this happens overnight and that houses just sprout like magic.

That is not the way the world operates unfortunately.

It takes time.

It's only now the results of the previous governments efforts are being seen. I wouldn't want the shinners taking credit for something that had nothing to do with them.

This country would be broken beyond repair today if we took their advice to "burn the bondholders" in 2010. A busted wreck and for decades to come if we took them up on that.

Burning bondholders ‘could have saved the State €9bn’

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/burning-bondholders-could-have-saved-the-state-9bn-1.2513067

maccored · 17-02-2020 04:28AM

joeguevara wrote: »

They weren’t more popular than the other two. The other two were more popular than them. That’s the reality no matter what way you cut it up,

With your last line, is it your contention that democracy is the problem?

i forgot this was boards where you have to explain the obvious - they got more of the first preference votes

My last line was saying exactly what it said - if you complain about the social security system, blame FF, FG and their various partners over the years, not SF. Ive no idea how you read that as having an issue with democracy

Kermit.de.frog · 17-02-2020 04:35AM

maccored wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/burning-bondholders-could-have-saved-the-state-9bn-1.2513067

A state saving €9bn and unable to borrow a cent again in the lifetime of anyone wouldn't survive.

The country would today be locked out of the international bond markets. It would have meant immediate and fatal belt tightening of 10's of billions of euro in a single year in 2010.

Add to that the country would have been expelled from the eurozone as a sovereign defaulter (the same way Greece was going to be expelled before they accepted reality).

It would be Venezuala only worse. That is what the shinners wanted.

maccored · 17-02-2020 04:37AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

A state saving €9bn and unable to borrow a cent again in the lifetime of anyone wouldn't survive.

The country would today be locked out of the international bond markets. It would have meant immediate and fatal belt tightening of 10's of billions of euro in a single year in 2010.

Add to that the country would have been expelled from the eurozone as a sovereign defaulter.

It would be Venezuala only worse. That is what the shinners wanted.

you were wrong in your last post so Im not about to start believing what your posting now. google 'hubris'.

Kermit.de.frog · 17-02-2020 04:41AM

maccored wrote: »

you were wrong in your last post so Im not about to start believing what your posting now. google 'hubris'.

I am 100% right.

Continue inhabiting fantasy land if you wish.

jimmycrackcorm · 17-02-2020 05:04AM

votecounts wrote: »

FF voted also to get rid of this scheme also.

https://www.thejournal.ie/jobpath-dail-vote-4480186-Feb2019/

Just goes to show that SF and FF are gene pool compatible. The populism is strong in these

jimmycrackcorm · 17-02-2020 05:08AM

maccored wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/burning-bondholders-could-have-saved-the-state-9bn-1.2513067

Have you any examples of governments burning bondholders in the EU?
Because we have the example of Ireland getting back the fastest on track of all the PIIGS since the crash.

jimmycrackcorm · 17-02-2020 05:13AM

maccored wrote: »

i forgot this was boards where you have to explain the obvious - they got more of the first preference votes

All we've heard about for the last few years was this FFG grouping and vote against it.

So what vote share did this FFG get in comparison?

markodaly · 17-02-2020 07:04AM

maccored wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/burning-bondholders-could-have-saved-the-state-9bn-1.2513067

SF voted for the bank guarantee. I would not be using anything related to the banks as a pro-SF message.

Shefwedfan · 17-02-2020 08:27AM

SF got the vote and are now trying to same sure they don’t get into power because they have a f**king clue how to and the “manifesto” they released is a load of lies which they can never deliver

Easier to go in as opposition and throw poo at the people doing the real work than doing it themselves.

So the 25% who voted for SF it was a waste of time, they will do nothing for your vote....

Kermit.de.frog · 17-02-2020 08:28AM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Have you any examples of governments burning bondholders in the EU?
Because we have the example of Ireland getting back the fastest on track of all the PIIGS since the crash.

I'm also interested in what the poster would see Sinn Fein doing about the corporate run, as well as the high street run, on the banks as depositors flocked to take their funds out in terror as a result of "burning the bondholders".

The market would have been closed to the banks. They would have faced insolvency.

It would have been complete collapse of the financial system and back to barter.

Easy to be populist when you don't have to implement the populism.

Yurt2 · 17-02-2020 09:35AM

Not that I'm necessarily recommending their course of action, but Iceland more or less told their debtors to f*ck off around the same time Enda was giving handjobs to everyone in Brussels didn't they?

Was there a couple of years ago, the sky was still where you'd expect it to be.

7 percent economic growth last year there too.

If Greece and Ireland weren't tied to euro, that probably would have been the correct course of action for us also. Give them the middle finger and devalue like hell.

Feisar · 17-02-2020 09:48AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

A state saving €9bn and unable to borrow a cent again in the lifetime of anyone wouldn't survive.

The country would today be locked out of the international bond markets. It would have meant immediate and fatal belt tightening of 10's of billions of euro in a single year in 2010.

Add to that the country would have been expelled from the eurozone as a sovereign defaulter (the same way Greece was going to be expelled before they accepted reality).

It would be Venezuala only worse. That is what the shinners wanted.

Is it not the reality of investing money that your asset may go up and down and all that. Does the same reasoning not apply to bondholders? Why are they held sacrosanct?

Yurt2 · 17-02-2020 09:56AM

Feisar wrote: »

Is it not the reality of investing money tht your asset may go up and down and all that. Does the same reasoning not apply to bondholders? Why are they held sacrosanct?

Actually just this week Argentina is in a very interesting tussle with bondholders and IMF. They are in technical default (just paying interest) and are having a stare-down in Buenos Aries with a lot of pinstripe suited Wall St types trying to give them a significant haircut

Kermit.de.frog · 17-02-2020 09:58AM

Feisar wrote: »

Is it not the reality of investing money tht your asset may go up and down and all that. Does the same reasoning not apply to bondholders? Why are they held sacrosanct?

These are sovereign bonds - supposed to provide the very safest investment with the lowest returns in the world.

Ireland only has a tiny pool of investors in our bonds.

You may get a way with it if you are the United States. The United Kingdom wouldn't get away with it for example.

You can't intentionally burn creditors who, in good faith, lent the country money on the basis that it was a properly managed country.

Do that and you will be locked out of the market completely. There are serious consequences to those actions which are not understood by some.

If you want a practical example of the consequences look at Argentina.

Feisar · 17-02-2020 10:02AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

These are sovereign bonds - supposed to provide the very safest investment with the lowest returns in the world.

Ireland only has a tiny pool of investors in our bonds.

You may get a way with it if you are the United States. The United Kingdom wouldn't get away with it for example.

You can't intentionally burn creditors who, in good faith, lent the country money on the basis that it was a properly managed country.

Do that and you will be locked out of the market completely. There are serious consequences to those actions which are not understood by some.

Thank you, I'm trying to break free of the apathy I have towards all things political, as a consequence I have been fairly light on all things political.

Brendan Bendar · 17-02-2020 10:03AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

These are sovereign bonds - supposed to provide the very safest investment with the lowest returns in the world.

Ireland only has a tiny pool of investors in our bonds.

You may get a way with it if you are the United States. The United Kingdom wouldn't get away with it for example.

You can't intentionally burn creditors who, in good faith, lent the country money on the basis that it was a properly managed country.

Do that and you will be locked out of the market completely. There are serious consequences to those actions which are not understood by some.

Not understood by a lot,Kermit as numerous posts on this revered site can testify.

If that happened, then you’d hear the whinging.

GreeBo · 17-02-2020 10:40AM

votecounts wrote: »

This is the one of the stereotypes that I hate. Plenty of educated, professional and hard working people vote for SF, sure they got 24.5% of the vote. If 24.5% of the country were "layabout scumbags",the country would be fcuked.:D Some people would say it's the stupid ones that keep electing FF and FG and expecting different results.

Hang about, I thought the whole reason people voted for "Chaaaaannngeee!" was precisely because the country was fcuked?

Man, you SF people really need to get your story (and your budgets) (and your spelling!) straight!

joeguevara · 17-02-2020 10:43AM

maccored wrote: »

i forgot this was boards where you have to explain the obvious - they got more of the first preference votes

My last line was saying exactly what it said - if you complain about the social security system, blame FF, FG and their various partners over the years, not SF. Ive no idea how you read that as having an issue with democracy

Getting more first preference votes means nothing. And they only got 1.5% more preference votes than FF. They don't have the most seats and are not the biggest party.

With regards to having an issue with democracy, you stated that the problem is too many people voting FF. if you have a problem with too many people voting a political party, then you essentially have a problem with democracy, cause believe it or not, that is how it works.

thequarefellow · 17-02-2020 03:11PM

What have we come to?
The end of politicians with silly monikers? (And hopefully the end of journalists using them)

Pat 'The Cope' Gallagher
Kevin 'Boxer' Moran

joeguevara · 17-02-2020 03:57PM

thequarefellow wrote: »

What have we come to?
The end of politicians with silly monikers? (And hopefully the end of journalists using them)

Pat 'The Cope' Gallagher
Kevin 'Boxer' Moran

In Donegal, where there are so many people with the same first and surname, it is commonplace to have the family nickname to differentiate them. For example, when I was in Irish College there were 4 houses with a bean an ti named Brid Gallagher and was differentiated by Brid the hall gallagher etc.

Pat the Cope Gallagher is to do with his grandfather who was associated with the Cope Co-operative in West Donegal. It is not a stupid moniker, it is just what people are called in Donegal.

joe40 · 17-02-2020 07:04PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

SF got the vote and are now trying to same sure they don’t get into power because they have a f**king clue how to and the “manifesto” they released is a load of lies which they can never deliver

Easier to go in as opposition and throw poo at the people doing the real work than doing it themselves.

So the 25% who voted for SF it was a waste of time, they will do nothing for your vote....

How are Sinn Fein trying to avoid getting into government?

Shefwedfan · 17-02-2020 07:41PM

joe40 wrote: »

How are Sinn Fein trying to avoid getting into government?

Well the “manifesto” they released is a pile of poo which they can deliver none of it

SF are grand standing and throwing mud, once you give them any sort of power they f**k it up, just ask the North, how long did they end up without a government

Brendan Bendar · 17-02-2020 07:53PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Well the “manifesto” they released is a pile of poo which they can deliver none of it

SF are grand standing and throwing mud, once you give them any sort of power they f**k it up, just ask the North, how long did they end up without a government

SF are bricking themselves now that they have had to come out from under their slates.

Along with the other non FF and FG deputies they have combined to oppose everything, pillory both FF and FG incessantly for the last four years.

Now nothing wrong with that, but now they haven’t the mebbes to stand up and be counted, to walk the walk and put their rhetoric and bulldust where it can be evaluated, in Government.

Up to now these folk have been scrabbling for some excuse to avoid being in Government despite with the aid of their fellow travelers blocking and opposing everything FG and FF tried to push through.

We are waiting to see if they have the cahunas.

Yurt2 · 17-02-2020 08:07PM

Bricking it?

Leo said he's excited and relishing going into opposition today. Those are the words of a man who has given up. History will not treat Varadkar kindly.

Idbatterim · 17-02-2020 08:11PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Well the “manifesto” they released is a pile of poo which they can deliver none of it

SF are grand standing and throwing mud, once you give them any sort of power they f**k it up, just ask the North, how long did they end up without a government

this is bull****, its all about choices! want to cut pension age down to 65? no problem, dont increase the weekly pension by E25 over the next 5 years as proposed by FFG. So increasing the current rate is sustainable and good practice, but freezing it and brining it back down 65 isnt?

The LPT that brings in a pittance and is abused? abolish it, 500,000,000 a year, they'll blow that on a welfare increase instead, if its still there... the irony that the SF proposals, actually were better policies for workers, than that of FFG! :rolleyes:

What happened to FFG plan to scrap USC? SF want to do that for many voters. You just dont get to blow that money that you bring in now USC to a threshold and LPT on ****e. I trade off I am very happy with

Fann Linn · 17-02-2020 08:12PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

SF are bricking themselves now that they have had to come out from under their slates.

Along with the other non FF and FG deputies they have combined to oppose everything, pillory both FF and FG incessantly for the last four years.

Now nothing wrong with that, but now they haven’t the mebbes to stand up and be counted, to walk the walk and put their rhetoric and bulldust where it can be evaluated, in Government.

Up to now these folk have been scrabbling for some excuse to avoid being in Government despite with the aid of their fellow travelers blocking and opposing everything FG and FF tried to push through.

We are waiting to see if they have the cahunas.

Do they have 80 seats?

Idbatterim · 17-02-2020 08:13PM

Yurt! wrote: »

Bricking it?

Leo said he's excited and relishing going into opposition today. Those are the words of a man who has given up. History will not treat Varadkar kindly.

whats he going to say when he fancies a sniff at power again? we will make work pay? LOL! the laughter lounge is close enough to the dail, if you fancy a career change Leo!

Shefwedfan · 17-02-2020 08:17PM

Yurt! wrote: »

Bricking it?

Leo said he's excited and relishing going into opposition today. Those are the words of a man who has given up. History will not treat Varadkar kindly.

After spending the last few years listening to the likes of Mary Lou and PBP I would agree with Varadkar

He is very young, just got a bit of pasting in general election, I would say he will relish been on other side throwing muck with nothing to back it up.

Then run again in 5 years and just say “I told you so”, fairly good bet he won’t need to last 5 years if SF in charge

Bit early to talk about history when SF have done f**k all so far

Jinglejangle69 · 17-02-2020 08:21PM

Heard the end of newstalk with some expert saying in 2 years whoever is in power will reap the benefits of housing policies been implemented in the last few years.

There is a huge amounts of social housing started on top of the most in the last 30 years due to be finished this year.

Before people jump down my throat it's what I heard and not my opinion.

Things are happening but wasn't quick enough for the electorate.

They want houses overnight.

What have we come to

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