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Jordan Peterson interview on C4

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Comments

  • #4592
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yup. 20cent, another blog:

    "“young lesbians are being told their sexual orientation is bigoted — it’s time trans activists stop pushing ‘girl dick’ on them. Genital ‘preferences’ is bad word usage.”

    This is the antithesis of freedom; this is a new form of fascism through economic coercion, which has cleverly been disguised as a civil rights movement.

    The victims of this new religion are, of course, women: lesbian culture has been decimated as lesbian bars rebadge themselves as ‘queer’ so that they are more ‘inclusive’, which in this context means ‘less likely to be attacked by transgender activists claiming discrimination’. Women-only groups, organizations and even festivals are compelled, by direct threats to funding, to accept ‘self-identification’ as the passport to these spaces, rather than a collection of shared physical characteristics and a life of experience of living with the resultant personal and intimate consequences.

    This is the antithesis of freedom; this is a new form of fascism through economic coercion, which has cleverly been disguised as a civil rights movement. If the transgender rights movement may be described as a revolution, it is now time for counter-revolution: bring on the backlash"

    Although I must admit I find it interesting that the lesbian community is facing the same problems that the male community with regards to equality and discrimination. Everything is brought to an extreme to ensure that we are inclusive. Pandora's box is fully open, and the world has, indeed, gone mad.


  • #4593
    xckjoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,499 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    20Cent wrote: »
    Sounds like you think people who aren't trans will pretend to be trans.
    That's a different issue.

    How do you determine who is trans and who's pretending?


  • #4594
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    20Cent wrote: »
    No.
    My preference is people without a penis.

    Well, these so-called "trans-exclusionary" lesbians feel exactly the same way.

    And yet, when they expressed their preference at London Pride, they were called bigoted, ignorant, and hateful by the organizers.


  • #4595
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    20Cent wrote: »
    The numbers must be absolutely tiny.
    Why is it so hard to accommodate these people.

    Accommodate them in what way? That lesbians should have sex with someone who identifies as female but still has a penis? Just to accommodate them?

    Here's two questions, 20Cent for you to answer.

    Why does the majority, in most different situations relating to Transgenders, have to conform to what the minority wants?

    What makes Transgenders so important that their wants are more important than everyone else wants?


  • #4596
    xckjoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,499 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    20Cent wrote: »
    No.
    My preference is people without a penis.

    Do you classify yourself as a bigot because you exercise this preference? Because I think that's the point being made. This group were being accused of bigotry for exercising their preference for people without a penis.


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  • #4597
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    Well, these so-called "trans-exclusionary" lesbians feel exactly the same way.

    And yet, when they expressed their preference at London Pride, they were called bigoted, ignorant, and hateful by the organizers.

    Good for them, I think a shlong would be a turnoff to a lesbian as well.


    They were called "bigoted, ignorant, and hateful" because they didn't want trans people at the event.


  • #4598
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    20Cent wrote: »
    No.
    My preference is people without a penis.

    Then you're transphobic. Because sexual preference is transphobic.

    Welcome to the club! :P [Although being bisexual, I'm not actually part of that club (the no penis club). But We're all part of the transphobic club regardless. Yay. Being Inclusive is great!]


  • #4599
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    xckjoo wrote: »
    Do you classify yourself as a bigot because you exercise this preference? Because I think that's the point being made. This group were being accused of bigotry for exercising their preference for people without a penis.

    The point being made by a tiny tiny group.
    There are more flat earth believers, lizard people conspiracy theorists etc
    Do what we do with them ignore them.


  • #4600
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Then you're transphobic. Because sexual preference is transphobic.

    Welcome to the club! :P [Although being bisexual, I'm not actually part of that club (the no penis club). But We're all part of the transphobic club regardless. Yay. Being Inclusive is great!]


    So you are letting this tiny group decide whats transphobic?
    No wonder you are so triggered if you believe every tweet and blog.


  • #4601
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    xckjoo wrote: »
    Do you classify yourself as a bigot because you exercise this preference? Because I think that's the point being made. This group were being accused of bigotry for exercising their preference for people without a penis.

    No.
    Who is calling people bigots because they have a preference?
    Two people on twitter and a blogger so what.


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  • #4602
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    20Cent wrote: »
    They were called "bigoted, ignorant, and hateful" because they didn't want trans people at the event.

    These lesbians didn't object to trans people attending the event.

    They were called "bigoted, ignorant, and hateful" because they asserted their right to be sexually attracted only to other natural-born women and not to trans women.


  • #4603
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    20Cent wrote: »
    So you are letting this tiny group decide whats transphobic?
    No wonder you are so triggered if you believe every tweet and blog.

    You and others here on boards have decided what transphobic means, and applied it to other posters... whats the difference?

    And.. come on.. I'm being triggered? That's a rather lame and pathetic response. You haven't come close to triggering me yet. Care to deal with my questions (and perhaps back up some of your own opinions with evidence rather than dismissing everyone else's?)


  • #4604
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    These lesbians didn't object to trans people attending the event.

    They were called "bigoted, ignorant, and hateful" because they asserted their right to be sexually attracted only to other natural-born women and not to trans women.

    Where does it say that in the statement?


  • #4605
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You and others here on boards have decided what transphobic means, and applied it to other posters... whats the difference?

    And.. come on.. I'm being triggered? That's a rather lame and pathetic response. You haven't come close to triggering me yet. Care to deal with my questions (and perhaps back up some of your own opinions with evidence rather than dismissing everyone else's?)

    You are tying the false equivalence thing again.
    Discriminating against trans people is the exact same as a personal sexual preference.
    No they are not.


  • #4606
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    20Cent wrote: »
    Where does it say that in the statement?

    The group concerned is called "Get the 'L' Out."

    Here is their website: http://www.gettheloutuk.com/
    The LGBT community, including Pride events and marches, are denying the definition of lesbianism, defining lesbianism’s exclusive same-sex attraction as hate-speech.

    The LGBT community is coercing lesbians to accept penises as female organs and heterosexual intercourse as a lesbian sexual practice.

    We oppose this manipulative ideology and denounce it as a form of rape culture aimed at lesbians, as well as a form of conversion therapy.

    Standing up for their right to be exclusively attracted to other natural-born women has got these lesbians labeled as hateful and bigoted.


  • #4607
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    20Cent wrote: »
    You are tying the false equivalence thing again.

    Actually, if you're honest, you'll recall that you introduced the equivalences.. not me.
    Discriminating against trans people is the exact same as a personal sexual preference. No they are not.

    Not what I wrote. Quote me. Respond to what I wrote. but don't reinterpret me, and then respond... although "no, they're not" isn't much of a response.


  • #4608
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    The group concerned is called "Get the 'L' Out."

    Here is their website: http://www.gettheloutuk.com/



    Standing up for their right to be exclusively attracted to other natural-born women has got these lesbians labeled as hateful and bigoted.

    Where does it say that's the reason in the pride statement?
    It doesn't you are surmising it.

    There were 8 of them.


  • #4609
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Actually, if you're honest, you'll recall that you introduced the equivalences.. not me.



    Not what I wrote. Quote me. Respond to what I wrote. but don't reinterpret me, and then respond... although "no, they're not" isn't much of a response.

    I'm lost.
    What is the question again?

    Should a lesbian have sex with someone they don't want to?
    No of course not.
    Is calling them transphobic if they don't have sex with them right?
    Of course not.


  • #4610
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If you forget a question.. you could go back a bit. It's not as if we're 10 or 20 pages away from where we started.


  • #4611
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    20Cent wrote: »
    Where does it say that's the reason in the pride statement?
    It doesn't you are surmising it.

    There were 8 of them.

    These women attended the Pride event as representatives of "Get the 'L' Out," whose beliefs are clearly articulated on their website and elsewhere.

    They were subsequently denounced by the Pride organizers as hateful and bigoted because they refuse to accept trans women as actual women.

    The Pride statement assumes its readers know what "Get the 'L' Out" stands for and so does not spell every last thing out.


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  • #4612
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    These women attended the Pride event as representatives of "Get the 'L' Out," whose beliefs are clearly articulated on their website and elsewhere.

    They were subsequently denounced by the Pride organizers as hateful and bigoted because they refuse to accept trans women as actual women.

    The Pride statement assumes its readers know what "Get the 'L' Out" stands for and so does not spell every last thing out.

    Ok.
    So where did pride say they have to have sex with transwomen?

    They didn't.

    Do you think trans people should be excluded from Pride?


  • #4613
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If you forget a question.. you could go back a bit. It's not as if we're 10 or 20 pages away from where we started.

    Could you just remind?
    Have gone down a rabbit hole here.


  • #4614
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,835 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    The issue is that many of these groups (particularly the LGB Alliance) have links to US-funded groups who are targetting LGBT groups in general. They're attempting to do so through disinformation and trying to cause fractures in LGBT groups.

    There are always extremists on both sides. Any trans or pro-trans groups who say it's transphobic for lesbians to not want to date trans women should simply be told to shut the f*ck up. But likewise you can support the rights of trans people, can consider trans women to be women and even support their right to use women's toilets and changing rooms without saying lesbians are transphobic for not dating trans women.

    People will always take the loudest voices on the other side and use them as the example of the other side as a whole. Trans women who think lesbians should date them, 'yon Yaniv one trying to sue beauty salons and the other disgusting sh*te she was at etc. They're not representative of trans women as a whole, they're the extreme lunatic fringes. Likewise, not everyone who objects to some aspects of trans rights are Graham Linehan. There does need to be a discussion about trans women competing in sports. There does need to be a discussion about if some doctors are too quick to prescribe puberty blockers etc to children.

    Let's not use the extremists on either side as an example of that side as a whole.


  • #4615
    xckjoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,499 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    20Cent wrote: »
    Ok.
    So where did pride say they have to have sex with transwomen?

    They didn't.

    Do you think trans people should be excluded from Pride?
    Same place as in this thread. Nowhere at all....
    You're the only one that has brought sex into this.


  • #4616
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    20Cent wrote: »
    Could you just remind?
    Have gone down a rabbit hole here.

    Nope. I don't see the point of me doing it for you (which you'll likely dismiss with a one liner). Do it yourself.


  • #4617
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,819 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »
    You're correct.

    My point is that it's not the 1970s anymore. The Church and other proponents of traditional family values no longer wield the power and influence in Irish society that they once did. Those who "just want to force people to think like them" now exist predominantly on the politically correct left.

    Those who endorse traditional moral values now risk being branded racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic, transphobic, and a whole host of other -ists and -phobics just for stating their beliefs. Tactics employed by politically correct authoritarians include social media mobbing, threatening people's employment status, or even trying to get them prosecuted for "hate."

    It's ridiculous to say that people are being "brave" by supporting feminist beliefs or promoting acceptance of homosexuality in today's Ireland. It was certainly the case in Ireland decades ago that anyone advocating such positions was sticking his or her neck out, but social attitudes have shifted dramatically since the 1980s. In recent years, overwhelming numbers of young people openly voted to legalize same-sex marriage and repeal the eighth amendment. There's no shame or stigma attached to advocating pro-LGBT or pro-choice views anymore; these views are now mainstream and standard.

    By contrast, No voters in these referendums were stigmatized as being homophobic or enemies of women. They were treated as reactionary pariahs. Therefore, it took much more bravery to openly defy the politically correct position than to advocate it.

    Essentially I think you’re right. It does take bravery to be outspokenly intolerant and a bigot.

    But bravery in itself isn’t worthy of praise.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #4618
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    xckjoo wrote: »
    Same place as in this thread. Nowhere at all....
    You're the only one that has brought sex into this.

    I didn't bring it up.
    Others are making the argument that if you don't want sex with someone trans then you are transphobic.


  • #4619
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    20Cent wrote: »
    Ok.
    So where did pride say they have to have sex with transwomen?

    They didn't.

    Do you think trans people should be excluded from Pride?

    Lesbians who said "I won't have sex with trans women" were derided by London Pride as hateful transphobic bigots, analogous to how a white woman who said "I won't have sex with black men" would be derided as a hateful racist bigot.

    Ideology has replaced common sense. In the minds of trans activists, a biological male who has identified as a woman since last Tuesday is as much a woman as someone who was born and raised female. In their view, if you identify as female, you are female — no ifs, ands, or buts — and anyone who disagrees is a bigot.

    This is what these lesbians are up against. And they are not helped by this kind of willful twisting and obfuscation.


  • #4620
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,327 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Brian? wrote: »
    Essentially I think you’re right. It does take bravery to be outspokenly intolerant and a bigot.
    I can pretty much guarantee that in forty years time many of the positions you hold so dear will be considered outspoken, even "intolerant".

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • #4621
    xckjoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,499 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    20Cent wrote: »
    I didn't bring it up.
    Others are making the argument that if you don't want sex with someone trans then you are transphobic.
    Feel free to quote where you saw this but I went back through the thread and the first person I found mentioning it was you.

    Here's your post to save you time:
    20Cent wrote: »
    Lesbians are being forced to have sex with trans people now?
    When that happen.

    Oh it hasn't so just making rubbish up.
    It was in response to some weird rant by someone else, but they didn't state anything like the belief that anybody is being forced to have sex with anyone. Perhaps you jumped the gun slightly?


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