What have we come to

riclad · 15-02-2020 06:22PM

Fine gael have become complacent, sinn fein appeal to working class young people .Since the crash in 2008, it was apparent that a housing crisis was on the way.
Just saving the banks and borrowing billions would not stop it .
We needed a 10 year plan for housing, our population increased with the boom, but there was not the new house building there to meet the demand from young people and workers .
i think we will end up with a fianna fail /sf coalition .
but its not certain.

Yurt2 · 15-02-2020 06:46PM

riclad wrote: »

Fine gael have become complacent, sinn fein appeal to working class young people .Since the crash in 2008, it was apparent that a housing crisis was on the way.

Much more than young working class people. I've spoken to more than a few home-owning adults in the professions in their 30s that gave them the nod.

FG in particular are going to have to shell out a lot of money on pollsters and focus groups to figure out how they're losing a demographic like that.

If anyone from FG hq is reading this, I'll save you some money. They're p*ssed at trying to service a mortgage for a property they feel they overpaid for after years in a toxic rental market, they struggle with the expense of childcare, they spend long hours commuting, setting at aside for an adequate pension is becoming more difficult and healthcare coverage for their young family is expensive.

Quality of life / rising cost of living / declining or stagnant return for their long hours in the workplace every week. And despite how the FG manifesto was structured, they're not actually asking for a taxcut.

Tony EH · 15-02-2020 07:39PM

Yurt! wrote: »

Much more than young working class people. I've spoken to more than a few home-owning adults in the professions in their 30s that gave them the nod.

FG in particular are going to have to shell out a lot of money on pollsters and focus groups to figure out how they're losing a demographic like that.

If anyone from FG hq is reading this, I'll save you some money. They're p*ssed at trying to service a mortgage for a property they feel they overpaid for after years in a toxic rental market, they struggle with the expense of childcare, they spend long hours commuting, setting at aside for an adequate pension is becoming more difficult and healthcare coverage for their young family is expensive.

Quality of life / rising cost of living / declining or stagnant return for their long hours in the workplace every week. And despite how the FG manifesto was structured, they're not actually asking for a taxcut.

This has been my experience too. Very surprised at some of the folk I've talked to over the past week who said they voted SF.

citysights · 15-02-2020 08:35PM

Tony EH wrote: »

This has been my experience too. Very surprised at some of the folk I've talked to over the past week who said they voted SF.

Same here surprised with people who voted for them as well. They are furious with the state of the country said they want change. People in jobs some third level educated.

Fred Cryton · 15-02-2020 08:39PM

Yurt! wrote: »

Much more than young working class people. I've spoken to more than a few home-owning adults in the professions in their 30s that gave them the nod.

FG in particular are going to have to shell out a lot of money on pollsters and focus groups to figure out how they're losing a demographic like that.

If anyone from FG hq is reading this, I'll save you some money. They're p*ssed at trying to service a mortgage for a property they feel they overpaid for after years in a toxic rental market, they struggle with the expense of childcare, they spend long hours commuting, setting at aside for an adequate pension is becoming more difficult and healthcare coverage for their young family is expensive.

Quality of life / rising cost of living / declining or stagnant return for their long hours in the workplace every week. And despite how the FG manifesto was structured, they're not actually asking for a taxcut.

Even if all that were true, SF doesn't have any magic solutions that would pass even a rudimentary test by experts in the field of housing, transportation and so on..

For example, the best way to get more housing built in Dublin is through less local democracy, by by-passing the local councils. DCC are the ones blocking high rise apartments in Dublin. In all seriousness, would SF ever do anything like that? Your best hope for fixing this is with the more responsible parties like FG or FF.

Tony EH · 15-02-2020 08:42PM

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Even if all that were true, SF doesn't have any magic solutions that would pass even a rudimentary test by experts in the field of housing, transportation and so on..

Maybe they can use the same magic solution that Fine Gael used to knock up the world's most expensive children's hospital?

Bill 2.0 · 15-02-2020 08:44PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Maybe they can use the same magic solution that Fine Gael used to knock up the world's most expensive children's hospital?

Oh cool, when did that get finished?

Thought they were only still in the planning phase.

Fred Cryton · 15-02-2020 08:50PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Maybe they can use the same magic solution that Fine Gael used to knock up the world's most expensive children's hospital?

Civil servants are the ones costing these things, nothing to do with any political party. You think that hospital would have come in cheaper if SF or FF were in government? Don't make me laugh.

Fireball81 · 15-02-2020 08:54PM

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Civil servants are the ones costing these things, nothing to do with any political party. You think that hospital would have come in cheaper if SF or FF were in government? Don't make me laugh.

Indeed- don't under estimate the power of the 'permanent politicians' aka senior civil servants who can't be got rid of for incompetence.

Yurt2 · 15-02-2020 09:07PM

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Even if all that were true, SF doesn't have any magic solutions that would pass even a rudimentary test by experts in the field of housing, transportation and so on..
.

Except that the housing policy crafted by O'Broin is by a country mile the most coherent of any of the parties and his book on the same subject actually has been widely praised across academia and the business press.

Having read all the manifestos, with a particular eye on taxation and housing (the major issue of the election), SF are streets ahead of the others on housing. Evreyone, including the public, know it. It's one of the major reasons why FG got such a kicking.

Plumbthedepths · 15-02-2020 09:19PM

Bill 2.0 wrote: »

Oh cool, when did that get finished?

Thought they were only still in the planning phase.

No they are in the building phase, noone has the foggiest of what the final cost will be but so far its projected to be running close to 2 billion. Runaway costs no one accountable as always.

wrangler · 15-02-2020 09:22PM

Fireball81 wrote: »

Indeed- don't under estimate the power of the 'permanent politicians' aka senior civil servants who can't be got rid of for incompetence.

+1
They should've been fecked out instead of the politicians

maccored · 15-02-2020 09:31PM

citysights wrote: »

Same here surprised with people who voted for them as well. They are furious with the state of the country said they want change. People in jobs some third level educated.

you'll find theres quite a few of those -many of whom have voted sf more than once. amazed some people believe the scumbags, the uneducated and the poor are the only ones to vote sf, type theory. scumbags, the uneducated and the poor vote for all kinds of parties

Brendan Bendar · 15-02-2020 09:39PM

Yurt! wrote: »

Except that the housing policy crafted by O'Broin is by a country mile the most coherent of any of the parties and his book on the same subject actually has been widely praised across academia and the business press.

Having read all the manifestos, with a particular eye on taxation and housing (the major issue of the election), SF are streets ahead of the others on housing. Evreyone, including the public, know it. It's one of the major reasons why FG got such a kicking.

I think you should wait and see, before spaffing off against the wall.

Fred Cryton · 15-02-2020 09:55PM

Yurt! wrote: »

Except that the housing policy crafted by O'Broin is by a country mile the most coherent of any of the parties and his book on the same subject actually has been widely praised across academia and the business press.

Having read all the manifestos, with a particular eye on taxation and housing (the major issue of the election), SF are streets ahead of the others on housing. Evreyone, including the public, know it. It's one of the major reasons why FG got such a kicking.

Oh so he wrote a book on the subject...he must be an expert so ;-) Remind me from what prestigious university he received his PhD on housing...oh i see...

Increasing social housing requirement to 25% as O'Brien wants? Everyone in the industry saying this would be disastrous move and would immediately dry up supply of financing for new development....but sure your messiah O'Broin wrote a book so he must know more than those actually in the industry right?

You're brainwashed, wake up.

Deep Thought · 15-02-2020 10:01PM

People wanted something else and voted for change.. so did America

Fred Cryton · 15-02-2020 10:02PM

maccored wrote: »

you'll find theres quite a few of those -many of whom have voted sf more than once. amazed some people believe the scumbags, the uneducated and the poor are the only ones to vote sf, type theory. scumbags, the uneducated and the poor vote for all kinds of parties

Not all Brexiteers are racist, but all of the racists voted for Brexit....

Not all SF supporters are grey tracksuit wearing welfare dependent provo sympathizers, but all of the grey tracksuit wearing welfare dependent provo sympathizers voted for SF.

Jizique · 15-02-2020 10:05PM

wrangler wrote: »

+1
They should've been fecked out instead of the politicians

“Drain the swamp” - UKIP-style or Trump style?
Well done to SF and their “change” mantra but the combination of nationalism and socialism is a dangerous one

olestoepoke · 15-02-2020 10:22PM

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Not all Brexiteers are racist, but all of the racists voted for Brexit....

Not all SF supporters are grey tracksuit wearing welfare dependent provo sympathizers, but all of the grey tracksuit wearing welfare dependent provo sympathizers voted for SF.

Not all grey tracksuit wearing provo sympathisers are dependent on welfare and not all who are dependent on welfare wear grey tracksuits.:D

Tony EH · 15-02-2020 10:52PM

Bill 2.0 wrote: »

Oh cool, when did that get finished?

Thought they were only still in the planning phase.

It didn't and it's still going up.

Thanks, the party of "fiscal responsibility". :pac:

Bill 2.0 · 15-02-2020 11:13PM

Jizique wrote: »

“Drain the swamp” - UKIP-style or Trump style?
Well done to SF and their “change” mantra but the combination of nationalism and socialism is a dangerous one

"National Socialists" as it were. That kind of rings a bell, hmmmmmmmmm.

Yurt2 · 16-02-2020 03:38AM

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Oh so he wrote a book on the subject...he must be an expert so ;-) Remind me from what prestigious university he received his PhD on housing...oh i see...

Increasing social housing requirement to 25% as O'Brien wants? Everyone in the industry saying this would be disastrous move and would immediately dry up supply of financing for new development....but sure your messiah O'Broin wrote a book so he must know more than those actually in the industry right?

You move the goalposts as well. First said experts,

You're brainwashed, wake up.

I can tell from that post you've not read the policy in any great detail (if at all), nor the housing policy documents from the other major parties. I'm not the one that has been captured by propoganda and electioneering messaging.

You moved the goalposts, first you said that experts wouldn't approve of O'Broin's policies without knowledge of the fact that Ireland's foremost housing economist Lorcan Sirr has actually spoken in favour of them (see SoundCloud link). Now you want O'Broin to have a PhD.

https://m.soundcloud.com/morning-ireland/housing-what-does-change-look-like

Silly stuff from you.

My only messiah is our lord above.

maccored · 16-02-2020 04:38AM

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Not all Brexiteers are racist, but all of the racists voted for Brexit....

Not all SF supporters are grey tracksuit wearing welfare dependent provo sympathizers, but all of the grey tracksuit wearing welfare dependent provo sympathizers voted for SF.

Prize waffle you have there

joeguevara · 16-02-2020 05:58AM

Deep Thought wrote: »

People wanted something else and voted for change.. so did America

Some people voted for change. Majority of people didn’t. The some people who voted for change don’t seem to get that and are calling for mass demonstrations because their party of choice doesn’t look like being in government.

Shefwedfan · 16-02-2020 10:03AM

maccored wrote: »

you'll find theres quite a few of those -many of whom have voted sf more than once. amazed some people believe the scumbags, the uneducated and the poor are the only ones to vote sf, type theory. scumbags, the uneducated and the poor vote for all kinds of parties

Anyone who went to college, has spent a number of years working themselves up to a decent position in a company and earning a decent living would be f**king nuts to vote SF

All they want is to take money off the people that’s have worked for it and hand to the wasters of Ireland, don’t reward the people who went to college, reward the gobs**t who left school after junior cert and now complains he cant get a good job

That’s the SF way....

Brendan Bendar · 16-02-2020 10:21AM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Anyone who went to college, has spent a number of years working themselves up to a decent position in a company and earning a decent living would be f**king nuts to vote SF

All they want is to take money off the people that’s have worked for it and hand to the wasters of Ireland, don’t reward the people who went to college, reward the gobs**t who left school after junior cert and now complains he cant get a good job

That’s the SF way....

You are correct,sir.

Bill 2.0 · 16-02-2020 10:24AM

joeguevara wrote: »

Some people voted for change. Majority of people didn’t. The some people who voted for change don’t seem to get that and are calling for mass demonstrations because their party of choice doesn’t look like being in government.

"But Hilary won the popular vote!"

/doesn't understand how elections work in their country but is willing to take to the streets over it

Brendan Bendar · 16-02-2020 10:37AM

joeguevara wrote: »

Some people voted for change. Majority of people didn’t. The some people who voted for change don’t seem to get that and are calling for mass demonstrations because their party of choice doesn’t look like being in government.

That’s the Trotters way of doing things joe.

Getting more and more prevalent......it’s called ‘ Bullhorn Bulldust’ in some quarters.

Deep Thought · 16-02-2020 10:46AM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Anyone who went to college, has spent a number of years working themselves up to a decent position in a company and earning a decent living would be f**king nuts to vote SF

All they want is to take money off the people that’s have worked for it and hand to the wasters of Ireland, don’t reward the people who went to college, reward the gobs**t who left school after junior cert and now complains he cant get a good job

That’s the SF way....

Agreed, and taxing the companies who create the jobs.

And I would love to see this €3,000,000,000 (€3 billion) surplus they can deliver every year.

gormdubhgorm · 16-02-2020 11:12AM

joeguevara wrote: »

Some people voted for change. Majority of people didn’t. The some people who voted for change don’t seem to get that and are calling for mass demonstrations because their party of choice doesn’t look like being in government.

I don't get this voted for change mantra one iota. FF FG and Labour all clearly stated they would not go into government with SF pre election they all have 79 seats!

To get the majority in the dail you need 80 seats who is the closest to a majority in the dail SF's grand collation of the left or those that want SF kept out for a myriad of reasons.

I know people will argue that SF got the majority of first preferences and would have won more seats if they ran more candidates. But do people remember why SF ran so few candidates?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sinn-fein-ard-chomhairle-meets-for-very-honest-conversation-after-disastrous-election-performance-929538.html

Because those with only a vague interest in politics, did not bother voting for SF in the local and European elections. SF were worried if they ran more candidates they would split thier vote and get even fewer seats.

Mary Lou:
"We are very disappointed with the election results. We know we did not do enough to convince people to vote for Sinn Féin.

"Today's meeting is our first opportunity for the leadership of the party to come together to have a very honest conversation."

This resulted in the SF manifesto idea for the general election.

One academic has said thier is a large overlap in the manifestos of FF FG and SF.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/expert-gives-verdict-on-fine-gael-fianna-fail-and-sinn-fein-health-manifestos-980161.html

He also stated that it was clear SF put a lot of time and effort into theirs.

How many who voted for SF and read thier manifesto is another question though.
Considering many who voted for SF did not vote in the local and European elections.

What have we come to

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