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What have we come to

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  • #2402
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Steyr 556 wrote: »
    The establishment is closed doors - strictly FFG/Lab and perhaps a sprinkle of Greens, Social Dems and Independents who make up the numbers in exchange for token changes and input.

    It isnt closed doors. It is fully open to anyone to stand as a candidate, and the people to elect the representative that they wish. How can it be more open than that ? Just because people dont choose the representative you wish they would, doesnt mean its closed.
    People need to wake up from this type of nonsense. We get the government that the people want.


  • #2403
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,012 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    It isnt closed doors. It is fully open to anyone to stand as a candidate, and the people to elect the representative that they wish. How can it be more open than that ? Just because people dont choose the representative you wish they would, doesnt mean its closed.
    People need to wake up from this type of nonsense. We get the government that the people want.

    Not quite. Did the FG voters want a FF/FG partnership or vice versa? We don't know. Looks like a good many wanted anything but another FF/FG partnership but that's looking the most likely.


  • #2404
    1o059k7ewrqj3n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭1o059k7ewrqj3n


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    It isnt closed doors. It is fully open to anyone to stand as a candidate, and the people to elect the representative that they wish. How can it be more open than that ? Just because people dont choose the representative you wish they would, doesnt mean its closed.
    People need to wake up from this type of nonsense. We get the government that the people want.

    It is a closed door system, and it has been so for almost the entire history of this state. People have voted for change and the likes of FFG are refusing to entertain even dialogue with SF because that’s not the kind of change that FFG thinks the people should have.


  • #2405
    Bill 2.0
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭Bill 2.0


    Steyr 556 wrote: »
    It is a closed door system, and it has been so for almost the entire history of this state. People have voted for change and the likes of FFG are refusing to entertain even dialogue with SF because that’s not the kind of change that FFG thinks the people should have.

    FFG don't need SF to make up the numbers, they can form a government without them.

    75% of voters didn't vote for SF.


  • #2406
    tjhook
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭tjhook


    Steyr 556 wrote: »
    It is a closed door system, and it has been so for almost the entire history of this state. People have voted for change and the likes of FFG are refusing to entertain even dialogue with SF because that’s not the kind of change that FFG thinks the people should have.


    Well we have a democracy. FF and FG have indicated that SF should go and create a government without FF or FG. If they can't do that, then the mandate for SF's flavour of change may not be so strong.


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  • #2407
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    Steyr 556 wrote: »
    It is a closed door system, and it has been so for almost the entire history of this state. People have voted for change and the likes of FFG are refusing to entertain even dialogue with SF because that’s not the kind of change that FFG thinks the people should have.

    I thought SF didn’t want to go into Government with FFG . Are they not changing there mind as it seems many of the other left leaning parties and TDs also don’t want to associate themselves with SF?


  • #2408
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Bill 2.0 wrote: »
    FFG don't need SF to make up the numbers, they can form a government without them.

    75% of voters didn't vote for SF.

    And 84% of people didnt vote for change.

    SF's rise, while not actually that high, seems to be making them dizzy, and distorting their judgement of what change really means.


  • #2409
    1o059k7ewrqj3n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭1o059k7ewrqj3n


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    I thought SF didn’t want to go into Government with FFG . Are they not changing there mind as it seems many of the other left leaning parties and TDs also don’t want to associate themselves with SF?

    Based on....? What, Labour? They aren’t left leaning.


  • #2410
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,012 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    I thought SF didn’t want to go into Government with FFG . Are they not changing there mind as it seems many of the other left leaning parties and TDs also don’t want to associate themselves with SF?

    Unlike FF and FG, other parties have their own ideas about policies not as easily bought by the chance of an extra pension, (except maybe Labour).


  • #2411
    citysights
    Closed Accounts Posts: 288 ✭✭citysights


    Bowie wrote: »
    Unlike FF and FG, other parties have their own ideas about policies not as easily bought by the chance of an extra pension, (except maybe Labour).

    Why do they get an extra pension if they are in gov. as opposed to being in opposition ?


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  • #2412
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,012 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    citysights wrote: »
    Why do they get an extra pension if they are in gov. as opposed to being in opposition ?

    Different rates and add-ons depending on time spent in specific posts.


  • #2413
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    Steyr 556 wrote: »
    Based on....? What, Labour? They aren’t left leaning.

    That’s odd. The papers list Labour as left leaning.


  • #2414
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,012 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    That’s odd. The papers list Labour as left leaning.

    Bertie Ahern considers himself a socialist too.


  • #2415
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    Bowie wrote: »
    Bertie Ahern considers himself a socialist too.

    The Irish Times states
    groups and parties on Ireland’s political left, including Sinn Féin, the Labour Party, the Social Democrats and the Green Party.


  • #2416
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,254 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    And 84% of people didnt vote for change.

    SF's rise, while not actually that high, seems to be making them dizzy, and distorting their judgement of what change really means.

    20% voted for the sitting government...everyone else voted to change that.


  • #2417
    Ol' Donie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,779 ✭✭✭✭Ol' Donie


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    20% voted for the sitting government...everyone else voted to change that.

    How'd you work that out?


  • #2418
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    Bowie wrote: »
    Bertie Ahern considers himself a socialist too.

    Fair play to him


  • #2419
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,254 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Ol' Donie wrote: »
    How'd you work that out?

    Only 20% voted for FG.


  • #2420
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,303 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Billcarson wrote: »
    Yeh like the stable future ff gave us a decade ago.

    And rather than learning from the mistake of voting based on who offered to give them most stuff, the electorate this time in sizable numbers voted for the party that offered completely unsustainable spending, double what is estimated to be available, and also believes that 'demographics will look after itself' when it comes to future budgeting.


  • #2421
    Ol' Donie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,779 ✭✭✭✭Ol' Donie


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Only 20% voted for FG.

    Oh, right.

    I thought you were referring to the FG/FF team up, which of course recieved far, far more votes than Sinn Fein.


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  • #2422
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,254 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Ol' Donie wrote: »
    Oh, right.

    I thought you were referring to the FG/FF team up, which of course recieved far, far more votes than Sinn Fein.

    One of them said that would not be on offer again. That they were confident that they would get enough to form a government without FG.


  • #2423
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Ol' Donie wrote: »
    I thought you were referring to the FG/FF team up, which of course recieved far, far more votes than Sinn Fein.

    And I would expect an FF/FG team up to do everything in their power, up to but excluding; murder, armed robbery, extorsion, terrorism, bombings, gun running, punishment beatings, booby traps, the manufacture of explosives, intimidation, torture, kidnappings, secterian attacks, protection rackets, knee-capping, disappearing, and summary executions, to avoid any form of government involving SF.
    If they cannot form a government, without resorting to those methods, then, I would accept that they should not form a government.


  • #2424
    Finty Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    One of them said that would not be on offer again. That they were confident that they would get enough to form a government without FG.

    And here was me thinking FFG was an actual thing. Turns out it doesnt exist
    SFFARC on the other hand...


  • #2425
    Finty Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    And I would expect an FF/FG team up to do everything in their power, up to but excluding; murder, armed robbery, extorsion, terrorism, bombings, gun running, punishment beatings, booby traps, the manufacture of explosives, intimidation, torture, kidnappings, secterian attacks, protection rackets, knee-capping, disappearing, and summary executions, to avoid any form of government involving SF.
    If they cannot form a government, without resorting to those methods, then, I would accept that they should not form a government.

    24% equals a right to authority.
    If not there will be hell to pay. Apparently.


  • #2426
    1o059k7ewrqj3n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭1o059k7ewrqj3n


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    The Irish Times states

    Yeah I can’t say agree with the Irish Times analysis there, but if you want to treat every word printed in it as sacrosanct good for you. I hope it works out for you. I wouldn’t say the likes of Jack O’ Connor would ever describe themselves as Socialist, mean less genuinely mean it.


  • #2427
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,181 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Finty Lemon wrote: »
    24% equals a right to authority.
    If not there will be hell to pay. Apparently.

    The people voted for change!!!!


  • #2428
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    Steyr 556 wrote: »
    Yeah I can’t say agree with the Irish Times analysis there, but if you want to treat every word printed in it as sacrosanct good for you. I hope it works out for you. I wouldn’t say the likes of Jack O’ Connor would ever describe themselves as Socialist, mean less genuinely mean it.

    I found out you are talking boll0x

    I watched the leaders debates and Mr Howlin himself proposed talks with the Social Democrats and the Green Party after the election next week, saying it was important to have a "left-of-centre progressive alliance".

    Labour classify themselves as being on the left.


  • #2429
    riclad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    Why the sudden surge for votes for SF , young people are fed up, paying high rent, the housing crisis, its hard to save for a deposit,when paying 1000 per month in rent.
    theres no sign fine gael will change this .
    Voting for sinn fein is a f u to fianna fail and fianna gael.
    Fianna gael were complacent. ah sure we will never need sf to form a government.
    i don,t think the sinn fein economic plans make sense in the real world,
    reduce tax,s build 100k house,s .


  • #2430
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,181 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    riclad wrote: »
    Why the sudden surge for votes for SF , young people are fed up, paying high rent, the housing crisis, its hard to save for a deposit,when paying 1000 per month in rent.
    theres no sign fine gael will change this .
    Voting for sinn fein is a f u to fianna fail and fianna gael.
    Fianna gael were complacent. ah sure we will never need sf to form a government.
    i don,t think the sinn fein economic plans make sense in the real world,
    reduce tax,s build 100k house,s .

    Everything you listed was the same 50 years ago.

    People had to save, cut back on nights out, eat beans and toast each week, cut their cloth to measure.

    No foreign holidays, no 2 cars. No ipads, Netflix, take aways where a once a year treat. Now it's 3 times a week.

    Nights out where a rarity, clothes were just a necessity not a statement.

    This generation is entitled and spoiled and have no clue about financial prudence.


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  • #2431
    smurgen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Everything you listed was the same 50 years ago.

    People had to save, cut back on nights out, eat beans and toast each week, cut their cloth to measure.

    No foreign holidays, no 2 cars. No ipads, Netflix, take aways where a once a year treat. Now it's 3 times a week.

    Nights out where a rarity, clothes were just a necessity not a statement.

    This generation is entitled and spoiled and have no clue about financial prudence.

    You're speaking through your hoop.you sound like someone in the daily mail comments section that gets mysteriously bumped by the algorithms.
    Real wages have not grown in line with costs.
    Your points above are almost so nonsensical it really really would have been better if you didn't throw in an opinion when you've nothing to add.
    Our proportional spend on various items has changed drastically for various circumstances. For example food is infinitely cheaper due to industrialization of the food supply. This is demonstrated by countless empirical studies.
    Please speak no more on items you've no knowledge of.


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