What have we come to

Yurt2 · 12-02-2020 01:30AM

:P

Blaze420 wrote: »

You are just making vague sound bites, I’m telling you like it is. I’m just trying to get by as well but blaming the government for the wage I’m on or the money I have left after rent and bills i chose to pay is a bit pointless don’t you think?

Vintage clever hard working boy post. Welfare rant snipped as my eyeballs were bleeding with its clichédness.

- Telling it like it is. Check.

You 'chose' to pay rent in bills? Champ, unless you want to live under a bridge or back with your ma you are at the mercy of the rental market. It's not some sort of radical act of individual agency. A roof over one's head is not some sort of 'nice to have' but not essential thing.

joseywhales · 12-02-2020 04:41AM

“They didn’t break the hunger strikers, they didn’t break Bobby Sands and Kevin Lynch, they’ll never break us and they’ll never break SF"

Can only assume this is in reference to irish politicians who have served for years representing the interests of the people of the republic of Ireland.

This is going to be painful....

um7y1h83ge06nx · 12-02-2020 07:21AM

I know some SF supporters would talk about "Free Staters". If SF get into government, will they themselves be "Free Staters" then?

Also what would happen when or if the British PM or a member of the royal family want to do a state visit, will it happen or would SF block it.

Even the smaller things about SF in gov are fascinating, never mind the big stuff.

US2 · 12-02-2020 07:56AM

Hope Tasteless Flick wrote: »

I know some SF supporters would talk about "Free Staters". If SF get into government, will they themselves be "Free Staters" then?

Also what would happen when or if the British PM or a member of the royal family want to do a state visit, will it happen or would SF block it.

Even the smaller things about SF in gov are fascinating, never mind the big stuff.

Dont think it would be a problem
https://images.app.goo.gl/7PtArAiRuozY4jbr5

AndyBoBandy · 12-02-2020 08:26AM

So Sinn Fein are talking to the Greens and 1st item on the agenda is carbon tax hikes!! Sinn Fein need to raise €11B for their ‘houses for all’ policy so this will be a match made in heaven....

More carbon taxes!! Yay!!

markodaly · 12-02-2020 08:38AM

Calhoun wrote: »

The removal of bedsits without viable alternatives.

The handling of NAMA and selling off of housing stock cheap.

The rental pressure zones, which lock in prices at higher level essentially protecting investors.

Increasing incentives for first time buyers without increasing the ability for builders to actually build.

Letting the vulture funds be the only show in town when it comes to investment.

The government essentially have manipulated the market to ensure that there is a decent return for investors. Had they actually introduced change that would see growth for the public the rental yields would not be as good.

Em, two of the motions I highlighted were done by left leaning parties.
The greens were behind the bedsits removal, and the Labour party under Alan Kelly steam rolled ahead with the rental preassure zones.

Other points are not true either. 'Vulture' funds as you call them are only responsible for 1% of builds afaik. The government build way more houses than vulture funds, but its fashionable to bang on about them.

markodaly · 12-02-2020 08:43AM

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

So Sinn Fein are talking to the Greens and 1st item on the agenda is carbon tax hikes!! Sinn Fein need to raise €11B for their ‘houses for all’ policy so this will be a match made in heaven....

More carbon taxes!! Yay!!

That will be fun.

Either the Greens ditch the carbon taxes which is arguably their core tennant of their manifesto, or SF do a u-turn and agree to Carbon Taxes.

Senior Hurling now lads!!

suicide_circus · 12-02-2020 09:05AM

can carbon taxes only be applied to the rich? :P

FrancieBrady · 12-02-2020 09:13AM

markodaly wrote: »

That will be fun.

Either the Greens ditch the carbon taxes which is arguably their core tennant of their manifesto, or SF do a u-turn and agree to Carbon Taxes.

Senior Hurling now lads!!

I suppose ha ha nudge nudge, you would be expecting them to force the Greens into government at gunpoint?...har dee har har, I am so edgy.

All parties will have to compromise on redlines if a government is to be formed.

Let's see what evolves.

gormdubhgorm · 12-02-2020 10:15AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I suppose ha ha nudge nudge, you would be expecting them to force the Greens into government at gunpoint?...har dee har har, I am so edgy.

All parties will have to compromise on redlines if a government is to be formed.

Let's see what evolves.

And of course that will be the excuse SF trots out when all these promises are not be delivered. Such as change and fighting back.

The optics are with SF at the moment as most of those in the ROI in particular Dublin - are ignorant to the government record of SF in NI. Even the most basic research on what SF have passed in NI shows them up.

Will SF go the way of Labour when the electorate realise their 1930's FF manifesto's could not be delivered?

At the moment SF are like an updated FF cover band.

The difference was with FF was they wrote the original's and were a much more popular band at than today's SF.

On top of that we are bound to have those other embarrassments to SF will pop up now and again. Of course these will be ignored and mention of them will be termed as 'Shinner bashing'.

gormdubhgorm · 12-02-2020 10:20AM

markodaly wrote: »

That will be fun.

Either the Greens ditch the carbon taxes which is arguably their core tennant of their manifesto, or SF do a u-turn and agree to Carbon Taxes.

Senior Hurling now lads!!

Low carbon footprint semtex?

No animals were harmed in the production of same.

holyhead · 12-02-2020 10:28AM

Watching a France 24 debate on the outcome of the Irish election. It showed a clip of Dessie Ellis and his supporters singing come out ye black and tans. What kind of gombeen image does this project of Ireland around the world. Depressing.

gormdubhgorm · 12-02-2020 10:50AM

holyhead wrote: »

Watching a France 24 debate on the outcome of the Irish election. It showed a clip of Dessie Ellis and his supporters singing come out ye black and tans. What kind of gombeen image does this project of Ireland around the world. Depressing.

Exactly the problem is SF are stuck in a contradiction they glorify republican past, they love the pantomime of it.

Republican funerals and the like this panders to the working class disenfranchised and disillusioned.

That is what the republican dreamers like to think of the past. David Cullinane was creaming himself imagining he is the same as his heroes Bobby Sands and the H block lads. But yet SF do not want mentions of the past of things they find uncomfortable or will harm thier chances with the ROI electorate.

Meanwhile middle class Mary Lou from D6 in Rathgar says she cannot mammy them. The likes of Culinane and Ellis.

Mary Lou prefers to try and make SF appear less camouflaged and more progressive. This is the type of dressing up and pantomime she wants to be seen in.

I will give SF this no other party has to play the same balancing act that is such a mix of contradiction and double talk.

FrancieBrady · 12-02-2020 10:58AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

And of course that will be the excuse SF trots out when all these promises are not be delivered. Such as change and fighting back.

The optics are with SF at the moment as most of those in the ROI in particular Dublin - are ignorant to the government record of SF in NI. Even the most basic research on what SF have passed in NI shows them up.

Will SF go the way of Labour when the electorate realise their 1930's FF manifesto's could not be delivered?

At the moment SF are like an updated FF cover band.

The difference was with FF was they wrote the original's and were a much more popular band at than today's SF.

On top of that we are bound to have those other embarrassments to SF will pop up now and again. Of course these will be ignored and mention of them will be termed as 'Shinner bashing'.

Would you edit that to make sense? Like what does this mean?

The difference was with FF was they wrote the original's and were a much more popular band at than today's SF.

If any of the following SF, FF. FG, SD. GREENS, LABOUR etc get into government, every single one of them will be making compromises.

That is the essence of coalition and C&S. That is why 'manifesto's' were glossy brochures and wish lists.

If you knew anything about realpolitik, you would know that.

optogirl · 12-02-2020 10:58AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Low carbon footprint semtex?

No animals were harmed in the production of same.

https://mondoweiss.net/2019/09/veganism-palestinian-oppression/

FrancieBrady · 12-02-2020 11:03AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Exactly the problem is SF are stuck in a contradiction they glorify republican past, they love the pantomime of it.

Republican funerals and the like this panders to the working class disenfranchised and disillusioned.

That is what the republican dreamers like to think of the past. David Cullinane was creaming himself imagining he is the same as his heroes Bobby Sands and the H block lads. But yet SF do not want mentions of the past of things they find uncomfortable or will harm thier chances with the ROI electorate.

Meanwhile middle class Mary Lou from D6 in Rathgar says she cannot mammy them. The likes of Culinane and Ellis.

Mary Lou prefers to try and make SF appear less camouflaged and more progressive. This is the type of dressing up and pantomime she wants to be seen in.

I will give SF this no other party has to play the same balancing act that is such a mix of contradiction and double talk.

Gas craic!

To make a rambling point about contradictions in modern SF, you use a photo from the middle of a raging conflict/war in 1981 and counterpoint it with one from a Pride parade 21 years after the conflict/war ended with a Peace Agreement.

Well done Gormdubh, keep it up.

gormdubhgorm · 12-02-2020 11:09AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Would you edit that to make sense? Like what does this mean?

What bit do you not understand?

If any of the following SF, FF. FG, SD. GREENS, LABOUR etc get into government, every single one of them will be making compromises.

That is the essence of coalition and C&S. That is why 'manifesto's' were glossy brochures and wish lists.

If you knew anything about realpolitik, you would know that.

Oh I well know but SF have based thier whole election on vague statements like alternative for change, fighting back etc.

Let's be honest most of the new SF voters

1) Did not care about Brexit 1%

2) Did not read the SF mainifesto and just chanced it

3) Does not realise that many of the promises SF make in thier manifesto are straight out of FF circa 1930's.

4) Do not know of any of SF's record in government in NI a proper analysis of housing health, social welfare cuts etc

5) Do not care about NI because it is distant from Dublin and up there - ironically partitionist in outlook

6) Do not remember the troubles or anything leading from it just over a decade ago - ancient history? No relevance to them

blanch152 · 12-02-2020 11:13AM

markodaly wrote: »

That will be fun.

Either the Greens ditch the carbon taxes which is arguably their core tennant of their manifesto, or SF do a u-turn and agree to Carbon Taxes.

Senior Hurling now lads!!

Sinn Fein were the only party to promise not to increase carbon taxes, every other party recognises the need for it.

The Greens will not compromise on that point.

gormdubhgorm · 12-02-2020 11:15AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Gas craic!

To make a rambling point about contradictions in modern SF, you use a photo from the middle of a raging conflict/war in 1981 and counterpoint it with one from a Pride parade 21 years after the conflict/war ended with a Peace Agreement.

Well done Gormdubh, keep it up.

But it is all true.
Republican's love the auld dressing up.

The thick of the troubles are the times David Culliane dreams of - he felt like he has missed out (no active service aged 45). So now tries to live vicariously through them. His mate Dessie Ellis on the other hand had active service during the troubles - yet dreams of getting rid of tans. He wishes in was in the WOI 1919-1921.

And it shatters Mary Lou's efforts of normalising SF for a ROI electorate.
What would you do with them if you were Mary Lou?

FrancieBrady · 12-02-2020 11:18AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What bit do you not understand?

Oh I well know but SF have based thier whole election on vague statements like alternative for change, fighting back etc.

Let's be honest most of the new SF voters

1) Did not care about Brexit 1%

1% of ALL voters gormdubh...get with the facts.
https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0209/1114111-election-exit-poll/

2) Did not read the SF mainifesto and just chanced it

Regina Doherty...'Who reads manifesto's?'

3) Does not realise that many of the promises SF make in thier manifesto are straight out of FF circa 1930's.

22% and 20% of voters ONLY voted for FF and FG 'promises'.

4) Do not know of any of SF's record in government in NI a proper analysis of housing health, social welfare cuts etc

SF have made plenty of mistakes, like any political party - they will do in the future, and nobody believes they will create 'Nirvana'.

NI is entirely unique and has a different way of doing business.

5) Do not care about NI because it is distant from Dublin and up there - ironically partitionist in outlook

That is an 'opinion' and isn't backed by any fact that I can see.

6) Do not remember the troubles or anything leading from it just over a decade ago - ancient history? No relevance to them

Which is arrogant and diversionary. Not to mention - made up.

markodaly · 12-02-2020 11:23AM

smurgen wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1227256737524322304?s=19

Why is he still fighting the election is my question?

shesty · 12-02-2020 11:25AM

DubInMeath wrote: »

So sf and the ira are one and the same by your logic, but the ira are now threatening their politicians in the north according to the link you provided.

They are one and the same.Anyone who knows their history knows that.SF are the public face of the IRA.

Their politicians stepped out of line (in their eyes), and in step the "dissident republicans" to remind them what their cause is (and who is boss.)

We really want this governing the country?

On a side note, I am very curious to see how the Gov make-up will happen.Numbers don't seem to be there - sensing a certain reluctance among left-leaning parties to be seen going into government with SF. Can't blame them really, but they are all damned if they do and damned if they don't.

holyhead · 12-02-2020 11:27AM

I have made this point already but will do so again to highlight inconsistency in SF.

They insist on British Army soldiers being brought to book for crimes as far back as the early 1970s. However they don't do anything to pursue justice for the victims of the IRA the military wing of SF.
Gerry Adams peddling the nonsense he was never in the IRA. Yet when the late Dolors Price and Brendan Hughes tell us he was involved in the kidnapping of Jean McConville they are ridiculed as being bitter.

The reality is that those voters here in the Republic, who voted SF, care not a jot about SF and their connection to the north. They care about jobs, homelessness, healthcare and transport. They appeal to a middle to lower class disenfranchised mass who, understandably, don't see much cause for optimism in voting FG and FF back in.

If SF get into government it will be interesting to see what actual positive change the bring about.

markodaly · 12-02-2020 11:27AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I suppose ha ha nudge nudge, you would be expecting them to force the Greens into government at gunpoint?...har dee har har, I am so edgy.

All parties will have to compromise on redlines if a government is to be formed.

Let's see what evolves.

What are you blathering on about? My point is a sound one.

SF do not believe in a carbon tax, the Greens do. The Greens will not go into government if SF wants to ditch carbon taxes.

SF arent even in government and they are failing already. :pac:

shesty · 12-02-2020 11:33AM

holyhead wrote: »

I have made this point already but will do so again to highlight inconsistency in SF.

They insist on British Army soldiers being brought to book for crimes as far back as the early 1970s. However they don't do anything to pursue justice for the victims of the IRA the military wing of SF.
Gerry Adams peddling the nonsense he was never in the IRA. Yet when the late Dolors Price and Brendan Hughes tell us he was involved in the kidnapping of Jean McConville they are ridiculed as being bitter.

The reality is that voters here in the Republic care not a jot about SF and their connection to the north. They care about jobs, homelessness, healthcare and transport. They appeal to a middle to lower class disenfranchised mass who, understandably, don't see much cause for optimism in voting FG and FF back in.

If SF get into government it will be interesting to see what actual positive change the bring about.

I can absolutely see the appeal of them to the group you note.They do good soundbites.The same people probably don't care much about where the money comes from to fund all of their plans, as long as they happen.

My point is more addressing the horror that so many people are expressing at the huge vote SF got, and why there are so many people who simply don't understand that horror.Between their history, and their plans for government, plenty of people are literally horrified at the situation.

Mind you, if they ran again next week I seriously wonder would the turnout be any better in an effort to prevent them being re-elected...and sadly, I doubt it.

gormdubhgorm · 12-02-2020 11:33AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

1% of ALL voters gormdubh...get with the facts.
https://www.rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0209/1114111-election-exit-poll/

So it is even LESS a percentage among new SF voters thanks for clarifying.

Also the very fact the ROI electorate does not care about Brexit is indicative of how they do not care about NI. As the two are intertwined.

NI is entirely unique and has a different way of doing business.

Complete cop out how do you explain the likes of this?

SF did a u turn on Social Welfare and let the powers move to westminster in the face of SDLP criticism ....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/sinn-f%C3%A9in-under-fire-over-welfare-cuts-move-1.2435441

As to your other points there is plenty of evidence to the contrary on this very thread.
You know and I know SF got the surge from those distant to the troubles both in age and geographically. Most in the ROI electorate do not really care about NI. It is 'up there'. Granted they might pay lip service and say a UI would be nice. But that is the limit of it.

There is plenty of evidence to the contary of the points you made both in the polls, radio, and various vox pops etc. The Irish electorate did not vote for SF because of UI they wanted housing, better health and so on.
On many of these things SF failed miserably on in NI. The most basic searches confirm this.

But sure who cares about that says you? It is 'up there' it is a unique situation what a complete cop out.

gormdubhgorm · 12-02-2020 11:40AM

holyhead wrote: »

I have made this point already but will do so again to highlight inconsistency in SF.

They insist on British Army soldiers being brought to book for crimes as far back as the early 1970s. However they don't do anything to pursue justice for the victims of the IRA the military wing of SF.
Gerry Adams peddling the nonsense he was never in the IRA. Yet when the late Dolors Price and Brendan Hughes tell us he was involved in the kidnapping of Jean McConville they are ridiculed as being bitter.

The reality is that those voters here in the Republic, who voted SF, care not a jot about SF and their connection to the north. They care about jobs, homelessness, healthcare and transport. They appeal to a middle to lower class disenfranchised mass who, understandably, don't see much cause for optimism in voting FG and FF back in.

If SF get into government it will be interesting to see what actual positive change the bring about.

Good point on the British Army 1970 I had forgotten that hypocrisy.
There are so many I cannot keep up.

But sure you are not allowed to point any of thier hypocrisies out, it is deemed as Shinner bashing.

Plumbthedepths · 12-02-2020 11:42AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So it is even LESS a percentage among new SF voters thanks for clarifying.

Also the very fact the ROI electorate does not care about Brexit is indicative of how they do not care about NI. As the two are intertwined.

Even when presented with an unbiased figure of how little importantance Brexit was to the electorate you still try to spin it. I'm surprised others are willing to engage with such a disingenuous standard of commentary.

blanch152 · 12-02-2020 11:47AM

markodaly wrote: »

What are you blathering on about? My point is a sound one.

SF do not believe in a carbon tax, the Greens do. The Greens will not go into government if SF wants to ditch carbon taxes.

SF arent even in government and they are failing already. :pac:

Sinn Fein's tax measures do not add up, so they will have to ditch the carbon tax promise anyway. The cyncial might think that they knew that before the election but promised it anyway.

Plumbthedepths · 12-02-2020 11:50AM

blanch152 wrote: »

Sinn Fein's tax measures do not add up, so they will have to ditch the carbon tax promise anyway. The cyncial might think that they knew that before the election but promised it anyway.

Might be a similar pledge to FG's to abolish the USC quickly dropped after they formed government in 2016.

What have we come to

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