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What have we come to

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  • #1442
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Bill 2.0 wrote: »
    None. Those were Northern Irish men/women dying. Different country, you see.

    Northern irish is a nationality?


  • #1443
    An Ri rua
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    This will be legal looting of state coffers on a grand scale.

    You mean, like NAMA's misdirection of market forces, or the National Pension Reserve or the awarding of an overpriced broadband contract or water meter contract??

    Like that? Hard to see it pal. FF and FG have made all the big moves already.


  • #1444
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,012 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Bill 2.0 wrote: »
    None. Those were Northern Irish men/women dying. Different country, you see.

    Why is an english man like yourself interested in irish politics?


  • #1445
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    Hmm, sort of hard when you edit the post after I wrote the message

    What did you realistically expect the Irish people and politicians to do? Legally Northern Ireland was/is a separate jurisdiction.


  • #1446
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    No, instead stood by while thousands of your own were injured, burned south, faced daily intimidation, murdered by state forces and their proxies.

    How many Irish men died north of the border as a result of choices by decent Irish people south of the border to let them fend for themselves

    Easy to preach from the comfort of the south until it's one of your own family murdered or intimidated by a foreign state. But alas, many down here simply want to brush that under the carpet, and solely point the finger at SF

    Absolutely, when the south got Independence and accepted partition, the nationalists in the north were abandoned.
    There is no way I can defend all the actions carried out by the IRA, but a conflict like that does not appear out of nothing.
    It was unprecedented in Western Europe at the time but it was the result of generations living in a virtual apartheid state.
    In the late 60's the nationalists population was under attack while southern political class did nothing bar a few individuals.


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  • #1447
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I voted for them to negotiate an acceptable programme for government with whomever they can.

    What did you vote for?

    A full left Government is what you will get.

    SF have a massive manefesto to deliver on now with nobody on the left who join them blocking it.

    They will have no excuses.

    FG and FF will now sit back and watch.


  • #1448
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    Simon Coveney only a few weeks ago was pressuring the parties in NI to go into government - including Sinn Fein. When they all did so, Coveney got a big pat on the back. But now that the prospect of SF being in government down here is likely, FG supporters are losing their marbles. If it's good enough for up the road, it's good enough for down the road.
    .

    Hardly the same situation at all. They had no government while all the elected officials had a stand off for a few years.


  • #1449
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,714 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Does anyone else get the feeling the SF crowd could very easily turn very anti immigration too?


  • #1450
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,012 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    It is the SF hypocrisy. That is the fundamental to the reason why other parties, won't go into government with them.

    Ff and FG are the hypocrites.
    'Stability' my hole. Looking after each other and keeping the shinners out.


  • #1451
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    I did nae.
    No second candidate. Don't like o'snodaigh. Delighted they did well. It's all good you can sign me up as happy they are looking like getting in.

    Seems bizarre that you would be "delighted" they did so well, but wouldnt give them a preference to help them.


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  • #1452
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Does anyone else get the feeling the SF crowd could very easily turn very anti immigration too?

    A newly elected Sinn Fein candidate had his house attacked for supporting a direct provision centre in Leitrim. So no I don't get that feeling


  • #1453
    Bill 2.0
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭Bill 2.0


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    Northern irish is a nationality?


    Yeah. Northern Ireland is a country that is part of the United Kingdom.


    You should probably know facts like this before you start talking about the place.


  • #1454
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Does anyone else get the feeling the SF crowd could very easily turn very anti immigration too?

    No. I get a feeling that SF didn’t want to be the largest party lol


  • #1455
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,249 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    A full left Government is what you will get.

    SF have a massive manefesto to deliver on now with nobody on the left who join them blocking it.

    They will have no excuses.

    FG and FF will now sit back and watch.

    Well fair enough then if they think it will work. I gave them a mandate to do that.


  • #1456
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,713 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    GreenandRed wrote: »
    Claire makes me wide awake.

    Especially with the tight pants.


  • #1457
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Well fair enough then if they think it will work. I gave them a mandate to do that.

    True. I’m actually interested to see how it goes. I’ve never experienced a full left government rule


  • #1458
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    holyhead wrote: »
    What did you realistically expect the Irish people and politicians to do? Legally Northern Ireland was/is a separate jurisdiction.

    The politicians could literally have stood on the streets in solidarity with their people. They could have mobilized their parties into the north. Yes, Irish people could literally have crossed the border to help out on the streets.

    Instead they politicians were too busy censoring what was happening, liaising with the British, and using the situation to score political points on one another from the comfort of the south like they always did. You really believe there was a will from the decent Irish politicians or the decent Irish people to help, or were they quite happy to let the Irish in the north fend for themselves as long as they weren't effected in the south?

    Criticise SF all you want, pointing to what they did in the past, as if they were the only player in the conflict and the cause of it all. Rightly or wrongly, at least they did something. Which is alot more than what can be said for the others


  • #1459
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,345 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    What is our excuse when we sing our Anthem?

    Another straw-man argument by you. That is the only anthem we have been given written in 1910. Plus many do not know the words in this country, or the meaning, sadly.

    Many have called for the anthem to be changed. Which I agree with most mumble it if that. And it is not very catchy.

    You know and I know the phrase 'up the ra' is aimed at the provos and that is what David Cullane did. An elected TD in the ROI. Bringing the SF stains down here. SF will be faced with this problem time and time again as it struggles with trying to normalise the party against such antics.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • #1460
    FarmerBrowne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭FarmerBrowne


    Reminds me alot of the Brexit vote in the UK in 2016, people voted against the establishment for the sake of it,in alot of instances not having a clue what they voted for.

    FG and FF could well let SF do it without them but it could depend on how desperate M Martin is to be Taoiseach.


  • #1461
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,345 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    No. I get a feeling that SF didn’t want to be the largest party lol

    Yeah I forget who said it on the Radio this morning. They said Mary Lou's dream job is leader of the opposition. No accountability, a high profile, and the SF vote will grow.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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  • #1462
    Bill 2.0
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭Bill 2.0


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    The politicians could literally have stood on the streets in solidarity with their people. Yes, Irish people could literally have crossed the border to help out on the streets.

    Instead they politicians were too busy censoring what was happening, liaising with the British, and using the situation to score political points on one another from the comfort of the south like they always did. You really believe their was a will from the decent Irish politicians or the decent Irish people to help, or were they quite happy to let the Irish in the north fend for themselves as long as they weren't effected in the south?


    Those people in the north aren't Irish, they are Northern Irish. You know, UK citizens from the UK nation of Northern Ireland.



    Why would any Irish politicians or Irish citizens care about them?


  • #1463
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    FarmerBrowne wrote: »
    Reminds me alot of the Brexit vote in the UK in 2016, people voted against the establishment for the sake of it,in alot of instances not having a clue what they voted for.

    FG and FF could well let SF do it without them but it could depend on how desperate M Martin is to be Taoiseach.

    How could MM be Taoiseach with less seats then SF?


  • #1464
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    I'm linking the two to point out your complete hypocrisy.

    What has Mary Lou, Eoin O Broin, Pearse Doherty or one of the new 'up the ra' crew personally achieved in high level European or even northern negotiations over the last 20 years?
    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Why is an english man like yourself interested in irish politics?

    where are you from?


  • #1465
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    The politicians could literally have stood on the streets in solidarity with their people. Yes, Irish people could literally have crossed the border to help out on the streets.

    Instead they politicians were too busy censoring what was happening, liaising with the British, and using the situation to score political points on one another from the comfort of the south like they always did. You really believe their was a will from the decent Irish politicians or the decent Irish people to help, or were they quite happy to let the Irish in the north fend for themselves as long as they weren't effected in the south?

    Appreciate you answering the question.

    1. Irish people heading to the North while a nice idea, would have led to even greater bloodshed.
    2. The North was a Unionist state which would not have tolerated politicians coming from another jurisdiction and again bloodshed.
    3. The censorship in the Republic was because of SF being the political wing of the IRA. The SDLP were the acceptable face of Irish nationalism.


  • #1466
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,383 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    Bill 2.0 wrote: »
    Those people in the north aren't Irish, they are Northern Irish. You know, UK citizens from the UK nation of Northern Ireland.



    Why would any Irish politicians or Irish citizens care about them?

    Actually a lot of them are Irish citizens and hold Irish passports.


  • #1467
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,249 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Another straw-man argument by you. That is the only anthem we have been given written in 1910. Plus many do not know the words in this country, or the meaning, sadly.

    Many have called for the anthem to be changed. Which I agree with most mumble it if that. And it is not very catchy.

    You know and I know the phrase 'up the ra' is aimed at the provos and that is what David Cullane did. An elected TD in the ROI. Bringing the SF stains down here. SF will be faced with this problem time and time again as it struggles with trying to normalise the party against such antics.

    :):):)

    Let me ask you another one then...why would a Taoiseach pose under a picture of Michael Collins hung in his office?


  • #1468
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    How could MM be Taoiseach with less seats then SF?

    he will have more seats.
    so, will Sinn Finn go into government with them/


  • #1469
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    Bill 2.0 wrote: »
    Those people in the north aren't Irish, they are Northern Irish. You know, UK citizens from the UK nation of Northern Ireland.



    Why would any Irish politicians or Irish citizens care about them?

    There would have been acceptance that their was a substantial minority of the population in N.I. who would identify themselves as Irish. But as I explained to Golden Miller any intervention on the streets of N.I. by Irish politicians of people from the south would have led to greater bloodshed.


  • #1470
    Bill 2.0
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭Bill 2.0


    olestoepoke wrote: »
    Actually a lot of them are Irish citizens and hold Irish passports.


    But they live in the UK so why should we care that much about them?


    I don't give two ****s about some Irish lad living in Rochdale or where ever.


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  • #1471
    GreenandRed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭GreenandRed


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    It is the SF hypocrisy. That is the fundamental to the reason why other parties, won't go into government with them.

    Sooner or later you have to let the past be the past to move forward. Some people did bad things but that shoudn't affect our futures. The hours wasted of 'sure ye did this, and we never did that' Leinster House tennis after the crash was sickening, like squabling children. Went on long after the crash and then more negative campaigning this election. Politicians of all parties need to be accountable to the people who voted for them. If many of them were managing or running a real business they'd either be sacked or bankrupt. Time for adults to work for Ireland.


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