South Africa to joins 7 Nations

Burkie1203 · 10-02-2020 11:56am #1

Bonkers if this is the proposal

https://twitter.com/robindavey01/status/1226821157615218688?s=19

Dave_The_Sheep · 10-02-2020 12:05pm

No.

prawnsambo · 10-02-2020 12:09pm

I'm with him ^

Pauliedragon · 10-02-2020 12:12pm

It does make sense in terms of tv scheduling. When they play nz or aus away the games are on at crazy hours and we get to play another decent team every year. I don't see why not.

The Lost Sheep · 10-02-2020 12:17pm

Pauliedragon wrote: »

It does make sense in terms of tv scheduling. When they play nz or aus away the games are on at crazy hours and we get to play another decent team every year. I don't see why not.

It does but it messes up southern hemisphere provincial rugby and Australian rugby is in bad enough shape already and New Zealand would struggle to keep their stars at home if south Africa left
Not good for the sport overall at all

crisco10 · 10-02-2020 12:23pm

Not to mention the impact on the environment! it's bad enough with Kings and Cheetahs..

Tea Shock · 10-02-2020 12:24pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It does but it messes up southern hemisphere provincial rugby and Australian rugby is in bad enough shape already and New Zealand would struggle to keep their stars at home if south Africa left
Not good for the sport overall at all

Could South Africa play in both?

Pauliedragon · 10-02-2020 12:35pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It does but it messes up southern hemisphere provincial rugby and Australian rugby is in bad enough shape already and New Zealand would struggle to keep their stars at home if south Africa left
Not good for the sport overall at all

Fair point. The Aussies are in all sorts as it is financially and with fox sports apparantly pulling the pin god knows what will happen there. If that happens they are totally screwed and if SA head our way what will happen down there? This could end up very messy.

prawnsambo · 10-02-2020 12:37pm

Tea Shock wrote: »

Could South Africa play in both?

It would take players away from their clubs for an inordinate length of time.

Cookiemunster · 10-02-2020 12:49pm

crisco10 wrote: »

Not to mention the impact on the environment! it's bad enough with Kings and Cheetahs..

You do realise that they already fly to Argentina, Australia and New Zealand every year don't you? And that their 4 super rugby teams do the same?

I'd assume that if they joined they'd play 3 home games in a row and then 3 away games in a row (or vice versa).

crisco10 · 10-02-2020 12:56pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You do realise that they already fly to Argentina, Australia and New Zealand every year don't you? And that their 4 super rugby teams do the same?

I'd assume that if they joined they'd play 3 home games in a row and then 3 away games in a row (or vice versa).

Yup I do, but their fans don't, where as 6 nations fans are much more engaged in travelling to away games.

And they (usually) do it as a tour, as opposed to too much back and forth. If SA joined the 7 nations, there is 7 nations flying around instead of 4 as it currently stands.

If the sums make this arrangement look better on paper then so be it, but it might be unlikely.

ebbsy · 10-02-2020 12:58pm

Well half of our team is already from South Africa...………..

deise08 · 10-02-2020 1:00pm

When I saw it first, I thought they were talking about Argentina.

irelandrover · 10-02-2020 1:02pm

Why not increase the tournament by a week and allow Georgia to also join?

Homesick Alien · 10-02-2020 1:06pm

irelandrover wrote: »

Why not increase the tournament by a week and allow Georgia to also join?

And call it the world cup

Silent Running · 10-02-2020 1:06pm

Thread title needs a question mark.

SA is not really different to us time wise, only 1 hour off, so games would be at a reasonable hour.

I wouldn't be in favour of this though. Too much travel time injected into the tournament.

10-02-2020 1:23pm

The day I see Springbok jerseys all over Dublin on a six nations weekend is the day I will believe this.

Mango Joe · 10-02-2020 1:25pm

Thread title is annoying the **** out of me for implying this had been finalised and set to go ahead.

Do you work for for an online advertising company OP?

pickarooney · 10-02-2020 1:26pm

Extra games with no away crowd and no atmosphere.
No thanks

PMC83 · 10-02-2020 1:46pm

I think it would be great for the 6N, would definitely make it a even more competitive tournament.

The lack of away crowd would be an issue but would likely be a sell out regardless as the Boks will always draw a crowd at home.

Obviously it will have a negative effect down south but they could (and should) invite Japan to join the RC.

AbusesToilets · 10-02-2020 2:14pm

Could be of benefit long term, realign the tournaments to make better sense. Japan to replace SA, in a Pacific tournament. Unfortunate that the US and other teams from the Americas are so far off the pace, it would be far better if the ARC was good enough for the Pumas to focus on.

awec · 10-02-2020 2:24pm

The Rugby Championship would be some joke if this happened.

10-02-2020 2:49pm

Why? Who was asking for this? This was initially reported by the daily mail so I'm very, very suspect.

PMC83 · 10-02-2020 2:59pm

awec wrote: »

The Rugby Championship would be some joke if this happened.

Agreed, it would really be a one horse race with the way Oz are going.

is_that_so · 10-02-2020 3:01pm

Isn't this just that world rugby league by another name?

Hector Savage · 10-02-2020 3:01pm

Yeah great idea, thats all the world needs is thousands of fans plus the teams and their entourage taking an 11/12 hour flight every week during the 6 (7) nations tournament ...so green!!!

But hey, don't worry - get the tweets and the facebook posts about how pissed off you are with the govt. about the state of the pollution!!
Plus get those new taxes in and it will ALL BE OK!!!!!!

PMC83 · 10-02-2020 3:03pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why? Who was asking for this? This was initially reported by the daily mail so I'm very, very suspect.

The ideas been knocked around for years. I'd imagine SA have looked into it on some level, as financially with TV rights, it could be a better deal for them.

Its a serious nightmare for everyone else down south though. Realistically Rugby looks be be on the way out in OZ, falling player numbers, dwindling fan base and so on. Would pretty much leave the abs on their toblers.

Richie_Rich89 · 10-02-2020 3:19pm

Money talks. If Ireland would have to play 6 weeks in a row then just rotate the squad more to avoid burnout. Might even be good practice for World Cups.

I hope the proposal wouldn't have SA pulling out of the Tri-Nations. That could weaken NZ and ultimately the international game and open the door for PRL and LNR to be bigger voices in the running of the game.

Dr. Bre · 10-02-2020 3:20pm

No grand slam will ever be won again . Well actually Safrica might

OldRio · 10-02-2020 3:37pm

I sincerely hope not. Very poor for the game but richer for the Unions. Money talks unfortunately.

molloyjh · 10-02-2020 3:42pm

awec wrote: »

The Rugby Championship would be some joke if this happened.

It would collapse. SA tv rights provide the bulk of the revenue AFAIK. The money wouldnt be there to make it sustainable without SA.

ScrubsfanChris · 10-02-2020 3:50pm

How on earth could the provincial teams compete in Super Rugby and have players togging out for South Africa at the same time?

This sounds like more Daily Mail nonsense...

PMC83 · 10-02-2020 3:58pm

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

How on earth could the provincial teams compete in Super Rugby and have players togging out for South Africa at the same time?

This sounds like more Daily Mail nonsense...

Thats an interesting one alright, would we see more teams leave SA for the pro14?

Cookiemunster · 10-02-2020 4:23pm

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

How on earth could the provincial teams compete in Super Rugby and have players togging out for South Africa at the same time?

This sounds like more Daily Mail nonsense...

Their franchises (the provincial teams play Currie Cup) would obviously move North too in such a scenario.

prawnsambo · 10-02-2020 4:25pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Their franchises (the provincial teams play Currie Cup) would obviously move North too in such a scenario.

So kill off super rugby as well as the rugby championship.

Cookiemunster · 10-02-2020 4:41pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

So kill off super rugby as well as the rugby championship.

Well if any of this is true, it means that the Boks don't care about Super Rugby or the Rugby Championship and are more interested in the money available in Europe.

Richie_Rich89 · 10-02-2020 4:49pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Well if any of this is true, it means that the Boks don't care about Super Rugby or the Rugby Championship and are more interested in the money available in Europe.

Perhaps CVC's plan all along is a league between British, Irish and South African clubs/provinces/regions/franchises and a 6N with SA in it. That would get them their return they're looking for.

Shefwedfan · 11-02-2020 1:49pm

This is no surprise. Super Rugby and the Rugby Championship is dying a death in terms of revenue. Hence why the teams wanted the World League.

When the teams joined the Pro14 "Off the Ball" had a journalist from SA on a few weeks in a row. He was very interesting, more or less said SA teams are sick of flying across so many times zones to get ass kicked and even if they had a chance the jet lag doesn't help. They wanted to see how the Pro14 went but in the end if it was a success the better player would go towards the Pro14 teams and away from the Super Rugby teams. Especially if they where allowed to play in Europe,

With the national side as well they see the same problem. All their best players are getting bought by European clubs and they dont have the money to hold onto them. I think SA have tried to move to centralized contracts as well.

If they got into 6 nations they would also get clubs into European competitions and could hold onto their players. Making them a much strong nation

From a NH point of view, SA rugby is always behind a pay wall and they have a large following, so it would mean a huge influx of cash.

This came out this morning: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/new-zealand-rugbys-day-of-reckoning-isnt-far-off-with-a-broken-model-heading-towards-bankruptcy/?fbclid=IwAR2p_0sF4M39xo4sGUlszlBpzD8RzbN7mdCxB0AtpcTw8egtp7a5cSLZnfs

Does remind me a few years ago when George Hook wrote an article about the IRFU letting overseas club pay for Irish stars while they kept all the money to pump into the home game.

awec · 11-02-2020 2:05pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

This is no surprise. Super Rugby and the Rugby Championship is dying a death in terms of revenue. Hence why the teams wanted the World League.

When the teams joined the Pro14 "Off the Ball" had a journalist from SA on a few weeks in a row. He was very interesting, more or less said SA teams are sick of flying across so many times zones to get ass kicked and even if they had a chance the jet lag doesn't help. They wanted to see how the Pro14 went but in the end if it was a success the better player would go towards the Pro14 teams and away from the Super Rugby teams. Especially if they where allowed to play in Europe,

With the national side as well they see the same problem. All their best players are getting bought by European clubs and they dont have the money to hold onto them. I think SA have tried to move to centralized contracts as well.

If they got into 6 nations they would also get clubs into European competitions and could hold onto their players. Making them a much strong nation

From a NH point of view, SA rugby is always behind a pay wall and they have a large following, so it would mean a huge influx of cash.

This came out this morning: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/new-zealand-rugbys-day-of-reckoning-isnt-far-off-with-a-broken-model-heading-towards-bankruptcy/?fbclid=IwAR2p_0sF4M39xo4sGUlszlBpzD8RzbN7mdCxB0AtpcTw8egtp7a5cSLZnfs

Does remind me a few years ago when George Hook wrote an article about the IRFU letting overseas club pay for Irish stars while they kept all the money to pump into the home game.

Interesting quote:

The current model, with its reliance on TV money and emphasis on the All Blacks at the expense of all else, is no longer fit for purpose.

This same issue will hit the Pro14 unions as well eventually.

Shefwedfan · 11-02-2020 2:17pm

awec wrote: »

Interesting quote:

This same issue will hit the Pro14 unions as well eventually.

I agree but by all accounts I think the plan is for a Pro 14/Premiership join up. With the SA teams as well this would push huge money into all of the clubs.

Image the crowds the provinces could pull if they have those teams coming week in week out.

sydthebeat · 11-02-2020 2:24pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Well if any of this is true, it means that the Boks don't care about Super Rugby or the Rugby Championship and are more interested in the money available in Europe.

i dont think theres any question that the Boks want out of super rugby... they are pretty much holding it up on their own for little return.

australian super rugby audiences are pitiful...
NZ has a population less than ireland.... so while crowd attendances are good, its a small market to profit from.
the sunwolves experiment was a failure, as the japanese market never really got on board (for a myriad of reason)

SA attendance with their franchises are declining at alarming rates.
Their marquee players are leaving in droves for better money.

Their Tv audiences are good, but they have a population of almost 60 million to sell to. They have almost twice the viewers of the other 4 SR nations combined.

South africa see playing in european competitions as a means to hold onto their best players, by maximising TV revenues.

Would more crowds go to watch SA play the 6N teams rather than the rugby championship team?? maybe not... but thats not the point... the TV scheduling is much easier and better suited for SA.
More audiences, more advertising, more revenue, more money for SA clubs to keep players.

A2LUE42 · 11-02-2020 2:29pm

molloyjh wrote:

It would collapse. SA tv rights provide the bulk of the revenue AFAIK. The money wouldnt be there to make it sustainable without SA.

70% was the last figure I had seen on this. With AUS and NZ the other 30% between them.

RobbingBandit · 11-02-2020 2:39pm

Would make it a lot more competitive but no way would the travel arrangements be manageable

AbusesToilets · 11-02-2020 2:45pm

SA teams joining the Pro14 as their main competition would make negotiation for tv rights very interesting indeed. Might Sky or BT suddenly view the league as having greater potential for profit than the Premership?

I think Super Rugby and the remaining SANZAAR teams would look to bring in Japan as a replacement for the lost SA revenue, along with perhaps finally throwing in a PI team as well. Could work out better in the long run.

titan18 · 11-02-2020 2:45pm

Would potentially kill off the Lions going to South Africa too. When we see South Africa in 6 nations all the time, what would the point be of a Lions tour there.

sydthebeat · 11-02-2020 2:45pm

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Would make it a lot more competitive but no way would the travel arrangements be manageable

please expand?

prawnsambo · 11-02-2020 2:50pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

please expand?

The cost of travel for fans would make it an expensive business. You certainly wouldn't get the numbers that regularly travel to away 6N matches.

Shefwedfan · 11-02-2020 2:53pm

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Would make it a lot more competitive but no way would the travel arrangements be manageable

The biggest issue with long flight is time zones difference. WIth SA in the same time zone it is not as big a concern

SA teams for Pro14 gave up additional revenue to cover cost of flights etc so I am sure a arrangement could be made

sydthebeat · 11-02-2020 2:56pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

The cost of travel for fans would make it an expensive business. You certainly wouldn't get the numbers that regularly travel to away 6N matches.

of course not.... but its a zero sum game.
would a 6 nations game against SA fill the aviva every second year? hell yes.

but to be frank.. fans are the last thing that will be on the consideration table for these negotiations.

ArmaniJeanss · 11-02-2020 3:12pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

The cost of travel for fans would make it an expensive business. You certainly wouldn't get the numbers that regularly travel to away 6N matches.

It's only one game every two years, so you could see it becoming an event game that fans travel to.
Also presumably South Africa will move each fixture around different venues unlike the existing 6N who all generally stick to the one city - giving the game an extra allure every two years. That it'll be summer time is an added bonus.

But it'll be expensive as you said, and necessitate a chunk of time off work.

Shefwedfan · 11-02-2020 3:17pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

The cost of travel for fans would make it an expensive business. You certainly wouldn't get the numbers that regularly travel to away 6N matches.

SA would be every 2 years and would be a major jolly.....just look at the game in Chicago. I flew via Heathrow as the Aerlingus flight my mates went on was booked up. The UK flight was full of Irish fans. Even the pilot mentioned it.

A game away every 2 years I know I would save up a few quick every month and jump on it

It would probably be easier to get a ticket than trying to get one in the Aviva at the moment

For the England match you have people taking a full week or more off work and doing the races and then down to Tickers depending on when it is on. That would cost more than a trip to SA :-)

South Africa to joins 7 Nations

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