Unpopular Opinions - OP Updated with Threadban List 4/5/21

OH and I expecting our first child in May. We pay thousands a month in tax, and never have had a say in where any of of goes, nor do we get much "back" for it. That's the problem with a lot of people in this country though. They only look at what they put in and what they get out. The bread and butter what's in it for me approach.

My taxes have been funding "other peoples kids" for years but I consider myself lucky to have a good job that pays well so I can complain about "other people getting my money". I also wont feel bad about getting 140 a month CA when I pay 1200 in deductions.

A progressive system doesnt just give you back what you put in and to hell with those less off. While I agree there shouldn't be an incentive to procreate just to have your kids as a cash cow or to get a house, what kind of society punishes people for bad luck etc.

Tony EH wrote: »

Re: children's allowance, here's an "unpopular opinion", people who begrudge others for what they think they are undeserving of, whether it's the dole, or children's allowance, or whatever, should be made live in those conditions for a couple of years.

That'll soon rearrange their thoughts on the matter.

I've made life decisions to ensure I don't have children. I don't deny people who genuinely need the dole. Everyone seems to think when you mention 1 thing, you're putting everyone into the same boat. No, I've an issue with kids as cash and life dolers with no intention of working, that's different.

You make it sound like having a child is not something you can plan for, or it's something that everyone has to deal with, when that's not true. Most of the time, it's a choice, and a choice that we are funding by having mandatory child allowence. Like anything, if you can't afford it, don't get/do it. But it seems when it comes to kids, pop them out and we'll keep paying.

ODB: All your scenarios would fall into the exceptions I keep talking about. It's not going to be black and white, but it also shouldn't be standard to receive it. Hell, even Michael O'Leary gets it if they wanted to draw it. Makes no sense.

Antares35 wrote: »

OH and I expecting our first child in May. We pay thousands a month in tax, and never have had a say in where any of of goes, nor do we get much "back" for it. That's the problem with a lot of people in this country though. They only look at what they put in and what they get out. The bread and butter what's in it for me approach.

My taxes have been funding "other peoples kids" for years but I consider myself lucky to have a good job that pays well so I can complain about "other people getting my money". I also wont feel bad about getting 140 a month CA when I pay 1200 in deductions.

A progressive system doesnt just give you back what you put in and to hell with those less off. While I agree there shouldn't be an incentive to procreate just to have your kids as a cash cow or to get a house, what kind of society punishes people for bad luck etc.

On the flip side, what kind of society rewards for having sex and procreating? This whole children stuff is seeping into my private life, by law I, a single male, have to have maternity and child cover on my private health insurance so that it makes it affordable for people with kids. Extremely unfair, and I'd much prefer to put that portion towards mental health cover. It's why I feel so strongly about it, it's not just my taxes anymore, it's my private options too.

I understand children are the future, etc, but by having CA as a standard guaranteed allowance is doing more damage than good, for the aforementioned bad decisions and cash cow kids. I agree with above, change it to vouchers, if you're too "embarrassed" to use them, you don't need them. And I've no doubt a lot of people use the CA on the kids, but I also know full well there's so many out there that use it to fund their own lifestyles. It happens, and more than you might think.

ReginaldSmythV wrote:

Yes. He should be made wait behind a plumber who didn’t defect. A score system like suggested above would be a great idea.

Hahaha defect!

Antares35 wrote: »

140 a month for one child of a couple paying thousands a month in tax is hardly a reward. Are you this precious about how the rest of taxpayers money is spent?

Yes we are looking forward to tripping the life fantastic and cant quite decide how we will squander the 140 per month. Being not used to earning and spending our own money.

So you don't think the current amount is enough? Could you do without it? Do you really need it in that case? Would it not being available have prevented you from having kids? What would have changed?

And some people treat it as a reward, rather that what it's supposed to be for. Maybe if it was actually all spent on the children it wouldn't be as bad, but there are people out there who use it to treat themselves and ta fook with the kids. That's mainly where this is coming from, and the only way to get rid of this, imo, is to stop it or limit it.

And I do have issues with how a lot of tax money is spent, but this is the top of my list because it will never benefit me in any way, and is starting to creep into my private affairs too. And shouldn't I have a (unpopular) opinion on this? Am I supposed to just shut up and accept it? Why are we giving free money to people who can prove they can procreate? Add on top of this that it looks like the Government will have to intervene in the creche craic that's going on and I'll end up having some of my money going towards paying for people to put their kids in creches.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

So you don't think the current amount is enough? Could you do without it? Do you really need it in that case? Would it not being available have prevented you from having kids? What would have changed?

And some people treat it as a reward, rather that what it's supposed to be for. Maybe if it was actually all spent on the children it wouldn't be as bad, but there are people out there who use it to treat themselves and ta fook with the kids. That's mainly where this is coming from, and the only way to get rid of this, imo, is to stop it or limit it.

And I do have issues with how a lot of tax money is spent, but this is the top of my list because it will never benefit me in any way, and is starting to creep into my private affairs too. And shouldn't I have a (unpopular) opinion on this? Am I supposed to just shut up and accept it? Why are we giving free money to people who can prove they can procreate? Add on top of this that it looks like the Government will have to intervene in the creche craic that's going on and I'll end up having some of my money going towards paying for people to put their kids in creches.

Wow so many inferences and questions. Where did I say it's not enough? It's not enough for me to feel remotely guilty about in the context of how much tax I and my OH pay that's for sure. Could I live without it? Sure, I couldn't care less tbh. I earn enough to not lose sleep over 140 quid a month. I'd be more concerned with how our taxes are wasted on other sinkholes such as middle management in the HSE and public sector pensions.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Sorry for the questions, but I hand on heart can say I don't know what it would be like without it, but you've also kinda proven my point. You don't need it and couldn't care less, but you're still entitled to it. That's what I want to tackle. That and the cash for kids situation, which won't be resolved by continuing to just pay it out.

And yes, the sink holes do need to be plugged too, but I'm reluctant to touch pensions, as I believe they are entitled after working all your life, even if now they're basically telling us that there may not be money there for me when I retire to I have to get a private pension on top. I do agree though that in general public pensions need to be looked at, especially the multiple pensions some people get (TD's, etc). Should only ever be 1 per person (excluding anything the EU will pay on top for other reasons, again with TD's sitting on the EU Parliment).

That's true enough. If it was gone tomorrow so be it. It wouldn't leave us without. At the same time Im not going to refuse it, because I feel like I contribute enough anyway.

Agree with you on the pensions to a large extent. I actually left a DB pension because I just couldn't sit and vegetate in a non progressive role forever. I'm paying into a private pension now too but happier in my job so I dont mind. I fear that for our generation it will be mandatory euthanasia at 65 and a tax if you want to stay alive!

teediddlyeye wrote: »

Is there a reason that childrens allowance can't be given as a tax credit rather than a cash payment? So that working parents would be rewarded more than those that don't for once.

I'm old enough to remember when you did get tax credits for children then one year they came along and said they were going to take away the tax credits and put up the children's allowance because it was discriminating against stay at home Mam's which kind of made sense.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Why are we giving free money to people who can prove they can procreate? Add on top of this that it looks like the Government will have to intervene in the creche craic that's going on and I'll end up having some of my money going towards paying for people to put their kids in creches.

Your money already goes towards educating kids you don't have, providing GP care for kids you don't have and generally looking after kids you don't have. Same thing for old folk you don't know or care about. It's buying methadone for junkies and masters for D4 rugger buggers. Crazy eh!

When you're old and unable to work, those kids will be ones looking after you, their taxes will be funding your care and your pension.

It's a quid pro quo kinda deal - Society is not actually all about you, you know!