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General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

1…4849515354…116

Comments

  • #2502
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,779 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Irish Examiner front page tomorrow.

    Noel Rock must be a goner as well at this rate.


  • #2503
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Irish Examiner front page tomorrow.


    'Source blasts D4 Boys'


    That source would be correct.


    I'll miss them on Callan's Kicks though.:D


  • #2504
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,543 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Noel Rock must be a goner as well at this rate.

    Absolute no hoper I would imagine. His seat was extremely marginal in 2016 as it was. He actually polled lower than the Fianna Fáil candidate but was lucky to take the last seat on transfers. He would have to increase his vote a fair bit to keep the seat given their transfer issues. It's unlikely he will buck the national trend.


  • #2505
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,779 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    C14N wrote: »
    Is a capital gains tax cut a populist idea? I would have assume that this was meant to appeal to wealthy executives and investors, as most ordinary people don't have huge amounts of income from capital gains.


    Is giving free GP care to people with chronic illnesses considered populist. It sounds pretty decent to me for a civilised society.

    This is the very issue of this term populist.

    Hopefully it becomes redundant and we can go back to saying you don't agree with a policy or that the policy is complete bullsh*t.


  • #2506
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,601 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    easypazz wrote: »
    FF/SF coalition is most likely outcome according to Paddy Power.

    It is but that market is nuts. It's like a golf tournament or the grand national. There are so many possible outcomes that they are all individually unlikely.

    PP have FF/SF @ 3/1 at the moment which probably means that they reckon it's at least 4/1. That would give it a probability of <20%


  • #2507
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,601 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Absolute no hoper I would imagine. His seat was extremely marginal in 2016 as it was. He actually polled lower than the Fianna Fáil candidate but was lucky to take the last seat on transfers. He would have to increase his vote a fair bit to keep the seat given their transfer issues. It's unlikely he will buck the national trend.

    Delighted for him if he does lose it. I recall him going to town on John Delaney after the tide had finally turned on him near the end (when it was deemed politically safe to do so). Then it came out that he had been personally contacting Delaney looking for tickets for Ireland matches before all that.


  • #2508
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,846 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    sporina wrote: »
    i think that there should be a "spoil" option on the ballot paper actually..
    Ah. But how do we record a ballot where you have tried to fill out the "spoil" option, but made a hames of it? :)


  • #2509
    retalivity
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,579 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Irish Examiner front page tomorrow.

    In a sign of how nervous the party is, Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe chose to appear on Today FM's Last Word with Matt Cooper from his constituency rather than in studio, which was seen as significant.

    His constituency is 1.5km from the studio, its not like hes running in Donegal!!


  • #2510
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Just a commentary on the influence of transfers and how important it is to be "in the frame".
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2020-why-transfers-may-not-be-a-deciding-factor-1.4164469


  • #2511
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Is giving free GP care to people with chronic illnesses considered populist. It sounds pretty decent to me for a civilised society.

    This is the very issue of this term populist.

    Hopefully it becomes redundant and we can go back to saying you don't agree with a policy or that the policy is complete bullsh*t.
    Most things that people like to see a government do could be considered populist and in a bag of election goodies there will be things we can all get on board with. It's when you get into abolishing things, targeting groups people have issues with or seemingly solving every one of society's ills that populism deservedly gets a bad name. There are very good reasons why complex problems can rarely be solved by simplistic policy proposals but they can be good for votes.


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  • #2512
    C14N
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭C14N


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Is giving free GP care to people with chronic illnesses considered populist. It sounds pretty decent to me for a civilised society.

    This is the very issue of this term populist.

    Hopefully it becomes redundant and we can go back to saying you don't agree with a policy or that the policy is complete bullsh*t.

    Yes, it is, but as I said in the other thread, being populist doesn't make it necessarily wrong or mean I don't agree with it.


  • #2513
    I see sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭I see sheep


    Brussels Sprout wrote: »
    It is but that market is nuts. It's like a golf tournament or the grand national. There are so many possible outcomes that they are all individually unlikely.

    PP have FF/SF @ 3/1 at the moment which probably means that they reckon it's at least 4/1. That would give it a probability of <20%

    I'm tempted by the 8/1 FF minority, SF might not want to go in with them at this stage and a FF minority might last 6 months or something, then SF will run candidates in every seat in 6 months time and try to be the biggest party.

    I'd appreciate if someone who knows more than me tells me why this won't happen before I bet on it! Ta


  • #2514
    zimmermania
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭zimmermania


    Sir Oxman wrote: »
    I cannot see how Martin can get himself off the cross he's built for himself.
    How can he justify coalescing with a party he has described as having a shadowy unelected committee behind it making all the decisions.


    I know politicians of all hues are lying swines but that's a fairly large hill to climb down even for him.


    PS I wish all involved in the SF rhetoric (RTE, FF, FG, radio, newspapers etc) would come out and show us proof at least of what they talk about in regards to SF.
    The fact that nobody in the bar saw McCartney beaten to death,or saw the "cleaners"come in tells a lot and thats just one of many incidents,the balaclavas found in the van of Snodsers postering crew in Dublin....


  • #2515
    C14N
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭C14N


    is_that_so wrote: »
    He beat the rest of them comfortably.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Fianna_F%C3%A1il_leadership_election

    I wasn't suggesting there was anything untoward about him winning, just that I find it odd that he's still leading the party. Was the last leadership election really in 2011? Do they not have leadership elections more often than every 10 years?
    ForestFire wrote: »
    when world leader declare victory based on exit polls or incomplete counting from a small sample(and the opposition even conceed!) , why bother asking everyone to vote in the first place?

    What else are you supposed to do? Get a representative sample of the population and ask only them to vote? How would you even know what's representative until you tally the votes?

    Also, early tallies are usually right, but they're not final. They keep counting for a reason, and upsets do happen. Early Brexit counting had that referendum failing and later results overturned that.
    easypazz wrote: »
    FF/SF coalition is most likely outcome according to Paddy Power.

    Paddy Power is heavily influenced by punters placing bets. If a lot of people bet on FF/SF, they have to shorten the odds to hedge their bets. I'm not pretending to know enough about the internal machinations of the parties that I would rule it out completely, but I have a very hard time seeing FF going in with Sinn Féin after all they've said about them and their ideological differences, especially if some other coalition could be assembled, or even just confidence and supply. Leo Varadkar was shockingly not even ruling out something like that in the 3-way RTE debate.


  • #2516
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    golfball37 wrote: »
    I don’t like FG but Pascal is an alright sort.

    I get the strong sense over the past few days that many FG TDs spent the last 5 years taking care of themselves rather than their constituents. And I am not talking about the obvious ones like Murphy. I guess new FG TDs have an inferiority complex to FF and thought they might lose their seat next time out (let's be honest, FF have won most of the elections since 1932).


  • #2517
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    C14N wrote: »
    I wasn't suggesting there was anything untoward about him winning, just that I find it odd that he's still leading the party. Was the last leadership election really in 2011? Do they not have leadership elections more often than every 10 years?
    Given the economic events surrounding FF and their continued attempts at rehabilitation, a new leader is still way down the list of priorities, even now.


  • #2518
    Cyclepath
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Cyclepath


    The dictionary definition of populism is:

    "a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups"

    Therefore pretty much anything punted by SF, or the left wing parties is going to be populist.

    That doesn't mean populist policies are wrong, but equally it doesn't rule out policies that create a racist or anti immigrant sentiment if sufficient numbers of ordinary people feel concerned about an issue.

    The question is whether any morality is applied to the policies. Just because a lot of ordinary people want something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.


  • #2519
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Coppingers posters are getting increasingly desperate warning that's she's likely gone


  • #2520
    robman60
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭robman60


    Anyone with local knowledge got a good candidate shout that the bookies see as unlikely? Have a fiver free bet with Ladbroke that I'd like to use at the election but I don't see any value jumping out at me.


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  • #2521
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    I get the strong sense over the past few days that many FG TDs spent the last 5 years taking care of themselves rather than their constituents. And I am not talking about the obvious ones like Murphy. I guess new FG TDs have an inferiority complex to FF and thought they might lose their seat next time out (let's be honest, FF have won most of the elections since 1932).
    3 elections in a row would be monumental for FG tbh.

    Kenny stood down in order to leave on a high because he had achieved what no other FG leader had - two elections won back-to-back.

    So even from day one the stage was set for a FG defeat at the next election. I expect all FG TDs, including Varadkar, have always expected to lose this one, hence the somewhat level/muted approach. For the most part they've let FF & SF get down and fight in the mud, probably fully expecting that there's no point in FG fighting a battle they're statistically nearly guaranteed to lose.


  • #2522
    Arthur Daley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,495 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    Given the unemployment numbers on paper. A balanced budget compared to where we were 2008 to 2015, FG should have been looking to coast to a strong result in this election. Their whole attitude from top to bottom has stunk and they are getting hammered as a result.

    It could have been/should have been very different but they were holed below the waterline for years now. If you told people in 2011 the story with FF back in power now and SF rising they wouldn't have believed you. SF have been losing support for several elections now. Only last month in the North they lost seats to the SDLP.


  • #2523
    nc6000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭nc6000


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Richard Boyd Barrett has him locked in his basement, it's the only obvious explanation for Browne making YouTube videos advocating we vote for him.

    I remember during a previous election campaign Browne saying he was going to vote for Boyd Barrett.


  • #2524
    nc6000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭nc6000


    What a joke FF are, hammering SF at every turn but their Justice spokesperson is happy to cash in by doing legal work for Gerry Adams while he double-jobs.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/revealed-ff-tds-work-on-legal-case-for-gerry-adams-38934927.html


  • #2525
    C__MC
    Registered Users Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭C__MC


    Good luck to the country voting back in Fianna Fail
    A weak front bench and a leader who was there for some of the darkest days of this country

    That's politics though!


  • #2526
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,143 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    C__MC wrote: »
    Good luck to the country voting back in Fianna Fail
    A weak front bench and a leader who was there for some of the darkest days of this country

    That's politics though!

    That was actually just about the post similar. Their front bench is far inferior to FG's. Worrying times ahead.


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  • #2527
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,945 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    nc6000 wrote: »
    What a joke FF are, hammering SF at every turn but their Justice spokesperson is happy to cash in by doing legal work for Gerry Adams while he double-jobs.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/revealed-ff-tds-work-on-legal-case-for-gerry-adams-38934927.html

    Isn't it strange that the defence offered - not able to discriminate clients - was not allowed for Josepha Madigan.

    Turning back to the predictions, FF/SF remains the favourite at 3/1 with Paddy Power, my €20 at 12/1 looks better all the time.


  • #2528
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,709 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    C__MC wrote: »
    Good luck to the country voting back in Fianna Fail
    A weak front bench and a leader who was there for some of the darkest days of this country

    That's politics though!

    Unfortunately the Irish electorate have very short memories.

    They crave the boom years and Celtic Tiger that FF provided before despite how it ended. They long for such good times again, even if it's not sustainable and FF will now piggyback on the hard work and medicine FG had to hand out in order to fix the economy that FF destroyed.

    Whilst the electorate are like this, Ireland will always be a country of boom and bust and one of an electorate who never learn from the past and make the same mistakes time and time again.


  • #2529
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    C__MC wrote: »
    Good luck to the country voting back in Fianna Fail
    A weak front bench and a leader who was there for some of the darkest days of this country

    That's politics though!

    It's unreal isn't it.


  • #2530
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    That was actually just about the post similar. Their front bench is far inferior to FG's. Worrying times ahead.

    I wonder when though do we start blaming the permanent government i.e. the senior civil servants and department heads. They must be to blame for a lot of the incompetence and yet get a free ride while their bosses front up to the electorate. They are untouchable.


  • #2531
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,543 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Ivan Yates predicting Fianna Fáil to break 60.

    Sinn Féin on 25 would be a fairly paltry increase of two seats.

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1225687811233202177


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  • #2532
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,539 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    You can have a government of national unity during particular times e.g. wartime etc. The idea is that when you need a strong government and/or can't be having major debates about the war in parliament, the parties agree to put the country's greater good over party politics.

    The difficulty is that, without effective opposition, such a government will be largely unopposed for the duration.

    I don't see how Ireland is in dire straights, we are one of the highest gdp per capita countries in the world, are ranked high on the human development index, are reasonably well rated on anti-corruption indices, happiness reports etc. Generally, Ireland is in the upper half of European Countries in most metrics and the top 20 in the world based on population.

    Ireland is not at war, and Brexit can be adequately handled by the current system. If Brexit was the no.1 issue then people would be deciding on whether Varadkar/Coveney should continue or whether they want a change but since Brexit is not really on people's minds at all, there is no emergency about that.

    So basically the problem is that the perception is that the health service is badly run, and amazingly that has been the view through successive governments of all different types. None of the parties have any real distinguishing policy changes e.g. an employers insurance model ala the US, or universal free healthcare like the NHS. Instead, they all say that they will magically fix the current system, but no one has any clue how to do so.

    I suspect that a lot of people take the view that something dramatic needs to be done with the HSE. But anything dramatic leads to inevitable disruption, and that will cost people's lives. Leaving aside the obvious humanitarian problems with such a policy, no politician wants to have to meet the grieving family of a voter who would have survived had they been given the appropriate care but the dramatic change to the HSE meant they did not.

    So ultimately the Minister for Health, whoever they are, is forced by the system to keep going as they are with health, try to make minor changes and savings in a few small areas, and the opposition are forced, also by the system, to criticise the Minister for anything and everything that goes wrong, and to constantly complain that there isn't more money in health.

    So the only way that a government of national unity would work is by the opposition parties agreeing not to crticise the government as they tear apart the HSE and rebuild it from the ground up, and to turn a blind eye to the people that die as a result. No one in their right mind would ever do that, and the people of Ireland certainly don't want that.


  • #2533
    I see sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭I see sheep


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Ivan Yates predicting Fianna Fáil to break 60.

    Jesus Christ if that happens this country deserves another recession, unbelievable how people would vote for these arseholes a few years after wrecking the country


  • #2534
    Banner2theend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Banner2theend


    When the dust settles on GE2020 the big story will be the nasty one-sided campaign by the Indo and their right-wing companions.

    I'm bloody raging that this type of Fox news style propaganda is in our doorsteps. An impartial media is sacrosanct to a proper and functioning democracy. However some of the antics of journalists that should know better would make you wonder are we heading towards some kind of Trumpist kind of society where those on the left are been cast adrift and their opinions don't matter and are continuously ridiculed.

    For those who are seeking to go onto the journalism profession these are most worrying times indeed for press freedom.


  • #2535
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I don't read the Indo, so I'm not sure what you're referring to, but freedom of the press is usually interpreted as the non-interference by the state in the media.

    Fox News exists because there is freedom of the press in the U.S. Sure, it's pure rubbish, but if people want to watch rubbish, then they are free to do so.


  • #2536
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,395 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    I have been getting pop up ads all day saying FF will build 200k homes...surely they haven't promised that?


  • #2537
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,945 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Ivan Yates predicting Fianna Fáil to break 60.

    Sinn Féin on 25 would be a fairly paltry increase of two seats.

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1225687811233202177

    That would leave FF/Lab/Greens on 77, add in a Healy-Rae and a few others, gets you to the 80, throw a FGer into the CC job and you're ok.


  • #2538
    zell12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,951 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Ivan Yates predicting Fianna Fáil to break 60.
    Sinn Féin on 25 would be a fairly paltry increase of two seats.
    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1225687811233202177
    A day or so late
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112456551&postcount=1495


  • #2539
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    gmisk wrote: »
    I have been getting pop up ads all day saying FF will build 200k homes...surely they haven't promised that?

    That figure would include all private development which they are claiming they'll improve output of via various supports. Which of course they'll want to as those builders are their mates.


  • #2540
    KevRossi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,498 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    robman60 wrote: »
    Anyone with local knowledge got a good candidate shout that the bookies see as unlikely? Have a fiver free bet with Ladbroke that I'd like to use at the election but I don't see any value jumping out at me.

    Neasa Hourigan in Dublin Central would be one, she could take Packie Donohoe's seat. Lot of left leaning voters there so she'll be transfer friendly. Doing well on social media as well.

    But just looking at her she's 1/2, so probably not the best odds.


  • #2541
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Michael Gallagher's predictions

    https://twitter.com/EnglishRachael/status/1225752325526114304


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  • #2542
    C14N
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭C14N


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Given the economic events surrounding FF and their continued attempts at rehabilitation, a new leader is still way down the list of priorities, even now.

    Wouldn't a change of leadership normally be a pretty essential component of rehabilitation though?


  • #2543
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,872 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    Whitecarstones wrote: »
    Opposition is a crucial part of any government make up.

    But you would think with the dire straits the country is in with regards to health etc, that all parties would put their petty squabbles aside and work together to sort it out.

    Say what you will about Mary Lou, she is a brilliant public speaker and would be a great asset to heading negotiations etc. Same goes for LV and MM. They all do have something to offer and its a pity they are so f*ing childish.

    For me this election campaign has just become a farce. The focus seems to be on their stupid little fights with one another rather than the real issues on hand.

    Also I think in Canada and Norway the different ministerial roles are filled by people with experience in their areas.

    Minister for health = doctor
    Minister for Education = teacher

    And so on.

    It kind of makes sense to me. In this country they are just thrown into the deep end without prior experience. Zappone coming to mind in particular.

    We've had numerous doctors and teachers and accountants/businessmen as Health, Education and Finance/Business ministers over the years and none seem to have stood out compared to the rest.

    The minister for Health isn't the Chief Doctor in the country. It's not their job to have a detailed knowledge on physiology and medical procedures. It may help to have a basic familiarity with them, and how hospitals function, but the vast vast majority of their work has nothing to do with it. The problems in the HSE are at a huge financial and organisational level that the experience of being a doctor will do nothing to help address.

    Same with the other roles. Being a teacher doesn't mean you're any better at sorting out major countrywide issues.


  • #2544
    C14N
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭C14N


    gmisk wrote: »
    I have been getting pop up ads all day saying FF will build 200k homes...surely they haven't promised that?

    They aren't promising to personally build 200k social homes, just that they expect the private sector will build most of them. I don't know how they can think that anyway though. We're already basically at capacity when it comes to the rate of new homes being built, we'd need to import huge numbers of builders from abroad to reach those kind of numbers, and Ireland is not so easy a place for building or so profitable a marketplace as to be that enticing to foreign investment.


  • #2545
    Banner2theend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Banner2theend


    Chips Lovell wrote: »
    I don't read the Indo, so I'm not sure what you're referring to, but freedom of the press is usually interpreted as the non-interference by state in the media.

    Fox News exists because there is freedom of the press in the U.S. Sure, it's pure rubbish, but if people want to watch rubbish, then they are free to do so.

    Believe me the first paragraph you mention, there is enough evidence to suggest that FG are using "their friends in the media" to influence public thinking on this election by deliberately using nasty tactics to humiliate and discredit their opponents.

    Remember the Indo they say is the "largest selling newspaper in the country". That's why it is most important to highlight this issue. They think that they can insult the intelligence of the Irish people with this Trumpolium way of gutter journalism. They will ultimately fail.

    All that I will say for now is I hope that people who have a vote tomorrow do go out and exercise their democratic right that our warriors of 1916 achieved. That is the very least that these brave men and women deserve Storm Ciara or not.


  • #2546
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Alan Kinsella (Irish Election Literature) surprisingly bearish on his FF seat tally, bullish on the Greens, Soc Dems and Sol/PBP:

    https://twitter.com/electionlit/status/1225732113372241921


  • #2547
    IAmTheReign
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭IAmTheReign


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Reducing the pension age back to 65 will still keep us with one of the oldest pensions in Europe.

    I'm not sure how this is an extreme policy.

    There isn't a single country in Europe planning to reduce the age of retirement. Most Western European countries have plans to increase the retirement age over the next few years. Ireland isn't alone in having to deal with an aging population.

    Belgium will be 67 by 2030
    Denmark will be 67 for anyone born after 1977
    France will be 67 by 2023
    Germany will be 67 by 2029
    Italy will be 67 by 2021
    etc.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement_in_Europe


  • #2548
    C14N
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭C14N


    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    We've had numerous doctors and teachers and accountants/businessmen as Health, Education and Finance/Business ministers over the years and none seem to have stood out compared to the rest.

    The minister for Health isn't the Chief Doctor in the country. It's not their job to have a detailed knowledge on physiology and medical procedures. It may help to have a basic familiarity with them, and how hospitals function, but the vast vast majority of their work has nothing to do with it. The problems in the HSE are at a huge financial and organisational level that the experience of being a doctor will do nothing to help address.

    Same with the other roles. Being a teacher doesn't mean you're any better at sorting out major countrywide issues.

    This is definitely true too. It's nice to have some on-the-ground experience with these things, and it's entirely conceivable that someone would have a career path that transitions from teacher to working your way up the educational bureaucracy to a management position, but running an organisation like this is a completely different skill set to working for it. Being good at one doesn't really translate to being good at the other.


  • #2549
    C14N
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭C14N


    IAmTheReign wrote: »
    There isn't a single country in Europe planning to reduce the age of retirement. Most Western European countries have plans to increase the retirement age over the next few years. Ireland isn't alone in having to deal with an aging population.

    Belgium will be 67 by 2030
    Denmark will be 67 for anyone born after 1977
    France will be 67 by 2023
    Germany will be 67 by 2029
    Italy will be 67 by 2021
    etc.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement_in_Europe

    Nobody is moving back, but we wouldn't really be either since, as far as I can tell, we haven't actually implemented the increase yet. A few other countries in Europe are (according to that list) sticking with their current ages, and several are at 65 or lower.

    That said, I still think that's a bad policy on their part, and not one we should be trying to imitate.


  • #2550
    sligeach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,474 ✭✭✭✭sligeach


    I can't believe that I'm hearing that Fianna Fail are leading the polls. Do people have that short of a memory? They bankrupted and made a balls of the country. They still have people in the party who were responsible for that, including their leader.

    "Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."


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  • #2551
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    sligeach wrote: »
    I can't believe that I'm hearing that Fianna Fail are leading the polls. Do people have that short of a memory? They bankrupted and made a balls of the country. They still have people in the party who were responsible for that, including their leader.

    "Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
    That's fine
    But we're grown adults
    We sometimes just have to move on with things


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